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Table Top Crossing Loop - Removal

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      Campaspe 2 Junior Train Controller

    Thanks Fatty.

    I believe that the extension of the sidings at the Ettamogah Rail Hub will be commissioned in early to mid March 2021 during an ARTC maintenance shutdown (Not sure of the exact date). Its great to see the investment in the rail hub.

    Kind Regards

    Campaspe
    Posted: 11 Feb 2021 17:16

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      Fatty Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Narrabri
    Thanks Fatty for taking the time to check out Table Top. I appreciate the feedback. Interesting that they didn't remove both turnouts - just the one at the Albury end. Did they remove any signals?

    Would you be able to take a photo of the remains of the loop and post it?

    Thanks again.

    Kind Regards

    Campaspe
    Campaspe 2
    Here's a video through Table Top taken this week. Sorry about the shakiness!

    https://anonfiles.com/p4xaVdU8pf/tt_small_mp4
    Posted: 19 Feb 2021 11:30
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Thanks for sharing.  What is the loop to the left once you pass the disused table top loop?
    Posted: 19 Feb 2021 13:49
      james.au Minister for Railways

    Location: Sydney, NSW
    Thanks Fatty for taking the time to check out Table Top. I appreciate the feedback. Interesting that they didn't remove both turnouts - just the one at the Albury end. Did they remove any signals?

    Would you be able to take a photo of the remains of the loop and post it?

    Thanks again.

    Kind Regards

    Campaspe
    Here's a video through Table Top taken this week. Sorry about the shakiness!

    https://anonfiles.com/p4xaVdU8pf/tt_small_mp4
    Fatty
    My antivirus and firewall protections are going absolutely crazy with this website - any way you might put it on google drive or something else that my IT systems might find more attractive?
    Posted: 19 Feb 2021 14:08
      WimbledonW Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    Will the new Etamogah allow trains to cross? What is standing room in the "loop"?
    Posted: 19 Feb 2021 17:14
      bevans Site Admin

    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    My antivirus and firewall protections are going absolutely crazy with this website - any way you might put it on google drive or something else that my IT systems might find more attractive?
    james.au

    http://dams.omni.com.au:8080/razuna/assets/2/F58E59758AF44C64A0C59FEB07A2A453/vid/E6BEB157DD37409ABF093C17DC56ED5C/HeresavideoofTableToptakeninthelastweek.mp4
    Posted: 19 Feb 2021 17:31
      WimbledonW Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Sydney

    http://dams.omni.com.au:8080/razuna/assets/2/F58E59758AF44C64A0C59FEB07A2A453/vid/E6BEB157DD37409ABF093C17DC56ED5C/HeresavideoofTableToptakeninthelastweek.mp4
    bevans

    The north end points have an associated catchpoints to allow shunting on the "loop" while main line trains pass by. The video does not  show the south end points.

    The signals in and out of the loop siding have main line signals.

    The video does not show if the points into the sidings are power worked or ground frame worked.
    Posted: 19 Feb 2021 19:40
      james.au Minister for Railways

    Location: Sydney, NSW
    Thanks Fatty for taking the time to check out Table Top. I appreciate the feedback. Interesting that they didn't remove both turnouts - just the one at the Albury end. Did they remove any signals?

    Would you be able to take a photo of the remains of the loop and post it?

    Thanks again.

    Kind Regards

    Campaspe
    Here's a video through Table Top taken this week. Sorry about the shakiness!

    https://anonfiles.com/p4xaVdU8pf/tt_small_mp4
    Fatty
    Thanks Fatty.  I feel like i want to see more of the run down into Albury and across the bridge now Wink
    Posted: 20 Feb 2021 12:06
      Fatty Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Narrabri
    Thanks for sharing.  What is the loop to the left once you pass the disused table top loop?
    bevans
    The start of the newly extended Ettamogah loop.
    Posted: 20 Feb 2021 12:49
      Fatty Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Narrabri
    The video does not show if the points into the sidings are power worked or ground frame worked.
    WimbledonW

    The points into the siding are in place but there's no equipment installed to operate them yet. I'm wondering if the existing switch-lock gear will be transferred to the new points during commissioning.

    Will the new Etamogah allow trains to cross? What is standing room in the "loop"?

    WimbledonW

    Roughly 3500m between signals.
    Posted: 20 Feb 2021 12:51

    Last edited by Fatty on 20 Feb 2021 12:55; edited 1 time in total
      WimbledonW Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    Will the new Etamogah allow trains to cross? What is standing room in the "loop"?


    Roughly 3500m between signals.
    Fatty

    This is presumably this is measured between the opposing home signals.

    The loop length is measured between the opposing starting signals, perhaps some 1000m less or 2500m?

    What are the speeds pf the principal main-loop points? Old 55 at South end (new for loop extension to 900m) has a 50km/h (X50) speedboard. See photo.

    Former 51 points at north end may still be 25km/h (X25).
    Posted: 20 Feb 2021 14:18

    Last edited by WimbledonW on 22 Feb 2021 14:26; edited 3 times in total
      YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
    Loop lengths are traditionally measured between fouling points.
    Signalled loops are measured between departure signals as suggested by WimbledonW (above).
    Posted: 20 Feb 2021 15:18

    Last edited by YM-Mundrabilla on 20 Feb 2021 15:19; edited 1 time in total
      Fatty Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Narrabri

    This is presumably this is measured between the opposing home signals.
    WimbledonW
    Seriously? Why would I measure a crossing loop like that? You reckon I'm an idiot?
    Posted: 20 Feb 2021 16:13
      Fatty Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Narrabri
    Loop lengths are traditionally measured between fouling points.
    Signalled loops are measured between departure signals as suggested by WimbledonW (above).
    YM-Mundrabilla
    No s**t. Thanks for pointing out the bleeding obvious.
    Posted: 20 Feb 2021 16:13

    Last edited by Fatty on 20 Feb 2021 16:14; edited 1 time in total
      Campaspe 2 Junior Train Controller

    Hello Fatty,

    Thank you so much for going to the trouble of filming and then loading the video of the Table Top Loop (and the approach). This is fantastic and I found very informative.

    Also, thanks Bevans for loading a version that was more friendly to the anti-virus software - given my rather limited IT skills I also had a bit of difficulty loading the original (my issue really and not the original video!).

    Fatty, I was wondering if you could do one more video (if possible). I was rather interested in what (if anything) remains at Kinloss Loop that was located on the southern side of the Thurgoona Road overpass.

    Thanks again Fatty.

    Kind Regards

    Campaspe
    Posted: 20 Feb 2021 17:38
      Fatty Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Narrabri
    Fatty, I was wondering if you could do one more video (if possible). I was rather interested in what (if anything) remains at Kinloss Loop that was located on the southern side of the Thurgoona Road overpass.
    Campaspe 2

    There's not a lot there but I'll see what I can do next time I'm there in daylight hours.
    Posted: 20 Feb 2021 21:32
      freightgate Minister for Railways

    Location: Albury, New South Wales
    Thx to both of you for making the video available top stuff. More would be fantastic please.
    Posted: 21 Feb 2021 08:16
      Campaspe 2 Junior Train Controller

    Thank you Fatty.

    Kind Regards

    Campaspe
    Posted: 22 Feb 2021 11:00
      Fatty Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Narrabri

    Will the new Etamogah allow trains to cross? What is standing room in the "loop"?


    Roughly 3500m between signals.
    I measured this today and my result was 3314 metres.
    Posted: 27 Feb 2021 13:37
      WimbledonW Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Sydney

    Will the new Etamogah allow trains to cross? What is standing room in the "loop"?


    Roughly 3500m between signals.I measured this today and my result was 3314 metres.
    Fatty

    But between which signals?
    * Distants?
    * Home?
    * Starting?
    Posted: 01 Mar 2021 15:14
      Fatty Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Narrabri

    Will the new Etamogah allow trains to cross? What is standing room in the "loop"?


    Roughly 3500m between signals.I measured this today and my result was 3314 metres.
    But between which signals?
    * Distants?
    * Home?
    * Starting?
    WimbledonW
    Rolling Eyes
    Posted: 01 Mar 2021 19:31
      YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik

    Will the new Etamogah allow trains to cross? What is standing room in the "loop"?


    Roughly 3500m between signals.I measured this today and my result was 3314 metres.
    But between which signals?
    * Distants?
    * Home?
    * Starting?
    WimbledonW
    Standing room is standing room; usually between signals in signalled territory otherwise between fouling points. We have been over this before.
    Posted: 01 Mar 2021 20:27

    Last edited by YM-Mundrabilla on 01 Mar 2021 20:27; edited 1 time in total
      WimbledonW Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    Standing room is standing room; usually between STARTING (?) signals in signalled territory otherwise between fouling points. We have been over this before.
    YM-Mundrabilla
    If the distance is between STARTING signals, then this is much longer than a "simple" 1800m IR loop. But 3400m is much less than for a PASSING LANE. It is UNHELPFUL to quote the Signals without saying exactly which signals are involved. This matter has yet to be resolved. There is no "unhelpful" button. Sad

    Eventually the new diagram for Ettamogah will be issued and more will be made clear.
    Posted: 02 Mar 2021 18:39
      YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

    Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
    What is an IR loop (as distinct from any other loop)?
    I am at a loss to see the point of this thread.
    A crossing loop may be a long as a 'piece of string'. A so called passing lane is only a long crossing loop.
    Posted: 02 Mar 2021 18:55

    Last edited by YM-Mundrabilla on 02 Mar 2021 19:26; edited 2 times in total
      WimbledonW Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    What is an IR loop (as distinct from any other loop)?
    I am at a loss to see the point of this thread.
    A crossing loop may be a long as a 'piece of string'. A so called passing lane is only a long crossing loop.
    YM-Mundrabilla

    Inland Rail trains will be up to 1800m long, and simple crossing loops should be a little bit longer, say 1850m.

    An extra long loop, say 3400m, may allow "simultaneous arrivals". It may also put the turnouts on straight track.
    Posted: 02 Mar 2021 19:42

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