Mildura passenger service

 
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Guys the point im making is that VLine are subject to political oversight and wont (and clearly dont) want to make waves politically.  So i suspect there is some overenigeerining in their process and efficiency that could be obtained (notwithstanding the fact that this provides ample opportunity for graft by the executive, but that is another story).  A private operator on the other hand would strip these out in an instant.  

If VLine were to be less constrained by needing to meet political whims and de-risk the whole thing so a minister isnt embarrassed by a train hitting a cat, costs might be lower as a result and services to Mildura more viable.

I know full well a commercial operator in passenger rail isnt going to happen, not in this country at least.  Even the merged regional operations of VLine, NSWTrainLink and Queensland Rail wouldn't make a profit...
All cat crossing places must be grade separated.
YM-Mundrabilla
This is helping to prevent a 'cat-astrophe' ...Razz

BigShunter.

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  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
This is helping to prevent a 'cat-astrophe'
"BigShunter"
It won't save you from the cat o' nine tails.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
This is helping to prevent a 'cat-astrophe'
It won't save you from the cat o' nine tails.
Valvegear
And after that you'll probably need a Cat Scan
  62440 Chief Commissioner

Looking at times, Train/Bus Melb to Mildura is around 7.5-8 hours. Ballarat to Mildura by bus is also 7.5-8 hours.
Buses run at 100 km/h, no way trains will be allowed to run at100 or 130
Trains have to run via North Shore
There is no way a train will do Melb to Mildura in under 10 hours
There is a VLine link via Swan Hill with most of the trip on the train that takes 7.5 hours.
Do you really think people will prefer to sit on a train for 10 or 11 hours to avoid the bus trip from Mildura to Swan Hill?
The price quoted is a joke, it will cost billions to get it up to passenger standards with a decent speed.
The only viable option I see is an overnight service where you have dinner on the train then sleep until arriving in Melbourne by 0900
The reason that Libs don't support it is because it is a silly idea, divorced from reality. Haters will hate anyway.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
One question for those that might actually know:

If V/Line were to re-deploy the N class and N sets from the Albury line to run between Maryborough and Mildura (after the SG Vlocities are introduced), what line-speed could be achieved with the current track condition?

While I am at it, here are a few more:

If we are talking about a loco hauled train, I assume we can forgo upgrading the 60+ level crossings to full bells, whistles and gates for now, If so, what track works would be required to re-introduce a loco hauled passenger train between Maryborough and Mildura?

Assuming stops at Dunolly, St Arnaud, Donald, Birchip, Ouyen and Mildura, would each of those stations need some money thrown at them before they could be re-opened?
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
G-Man,
Donald & Birchip stations had been overhauled for community use a few years ago, so could be suitable as a waiting room.   Would not be surprised if St. Arnaud & Ouyen have been done also.
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

I assume Gman -86 read my post previous page.

Loco should be able to go full speed most level crossings, apart from the dozen or so already restricted. As mentioned many times past, loco v truck is generally survivable. V’locity on the other hand are restricted, even down to 40kmh on dozens of crossings beyond Sale, so I doubt Mildura would be contemplated at this stage.

By and large an N should be able to run 80km/h or better; any more level crossings restrictions should be seen as obstructionist.

All of which reinforces my prior post!
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Is this the thread where we complain about that dementia patient Biden?

Or is it the never-healing scab of the Mildura passenger train which even The Vindlander says is way too expensive to ever reinstate...
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Mildura to Maryborough is 385km by rail.

With an 80km/h line-speed and a half a dozen stops, assuming an average speed from Maryborough to Mildura of 65km/h, you would be looking at about 6 hours. Add the 2 and a bit hours to get between Maryborough and Melbourne and it could be a competitive 8 and a half hours from Mildura to the capital.

All with minimal rail upgrades, and utilising existing rollingstock.

Now lets go a bit nuts...

Assuming the above figures are correct, The current PM departure from Maryborough is 2:57PM, arriving at Southern Cross at 5:22PM. An 8am departure from Mildura could theoretically then arrive into Maryborough at 2pm (allowing a bit of padding in case of delayed running of course) making for a total journey time of less than 9 1/2 hours.

The evening Down Maryborough arrives into Maryborough at 6:57PM (After departing Southern Cross at 4:39PM). A Mildura bound train could be scheduled to depart Maryborough at 7:45PM and then arrive into Mildura at 1:45AM. This probably wouldn't be too appealing, not really what we want if we want this to be a success.

So, maybe instead, the Down Mildura could connect at Maryborough with the AM Down, (departs Southern Cross 9:16AM arrives Maryborough at 11:43AM) departing Maryborough at say, 1:00PM, arriving into Mildura at 7:00PM. That may be a bit more likely to induce success.

Of course, that would require a cross somewhere along the line, I'm sure that isn't beyond possibilities, last I looked there were several crossing loops on the Mildura line, including 1 either side of St Arnaud, either of which could be suitable for the above times. Although I'm not sure V/Line are too pleased about the idea of pass trains utilising trailable loops, but lets leave that aside for now.

Now, of course that would require 2 train sets to be operational, but if the soon-to-be-made-obsolete SG N sets are to be used, that shouldn't be an issue, there are 4 of them that will soon be without a job.

Wow, I went all foamy for a bit there, didn't I?
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Is this the thread where we complain about that dementia patient Biden?

Or is it the never-healing scab of the Mildura passenger train which even The Vindlander says is way too expensive to ever reinstate...
don_dunstan
I like the fact that at Railpage we can like posts, we can signify that we think posts are funny, or helpful.

Posts like the above make me wish Railpage had an "Unhelpful" button.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

yawn............................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......................................
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
yawn............................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......................................
trainbrain
At least it has shut up the end of the Overland thread for a while ........... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzz
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
I read a lot about the gold platted approach to the delivery of railway stations and i wanted to do some comparison with say NSW and QLD for the same level of rebuild.    Do NSW when restoring or operating passenger rail services make the same level of investment and scope as in Victoria and can examples be provided?

Bathurst?

Dubbo?

Griffith?
  NimbleJack Locomotive Fireman

There is only one track at Mildura station. The entire yard has been ripped up.

If they use an N set for services there, how will they perform a runaround?
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
There is only one track at Mildura station. The entire yard has been ripped up.

If they use an N set for services there, how will they perform a runaround?
NimbleJack
May have to trundle out to Merbein, Jack or whack a push/pull P Class for the blistering 80kph,  like out to the Marsh..

BigShunter.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
There is only one track at Mildura station. The entire yard has been ripped up.

If they use an N set for services there, how will they perform a runaround?
NimbleJack

Another shocking job by V/Line
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
There is only one track at Mildura station. The entire yard has been ripped up.

If they use an N set for services there, how will they perform a runaround?

Another shocking job by V/Line
bevans
Oh come on. Where does the MBRP say any provision for passenger services. The station precinct has no rail purpose other than "just passing thru".

Cleaning out the yard is a huge improvement to the tourist precinct.

cheers
John
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Oh come on. Where does the MBRP say any provision for passenger services. The station precinct has no rail purpose other than "just passing thru".

Cleaning out the yard is a huge improvement to the tourist precinct.

cheers
John
justarider

You are joking right?

When locos need to now run light engine from Merbein to south of redcliffs just to lay over.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
There is only one track at Mildura station. The entire yard has been ripped up.

If they use an N set for services there, how will they perform a runaround?
May have to trundle out to Merbein, Jack or whack a push/pull P Class for the blistering 80kph,  like out to the Marsh..

BigShunter.
BigShunter
Agreed that Merbein would be best. Need to park the train set somewhere over-night and not interfere with the freighters.
Speed running out there is irrelevant, the train would be running empty.

BTW. The Yelta line is class 3. That means 100kph for lightweight passenger.

cheers
John
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Oh come on. Where does the MBRP say any provision for passenger services. The station precinct has no rail purpose other than "just passing thru".

Cleaning out the yard is a huge improvement to the tourist precinct.

cheers
John

You are joking right?

When locos need to now run light engine from Merbein to south of redcliffs just to lay over.
bevans
Really !  You mean that Merbein is a dis-organised yard that cannot look after its own?

And no I'm not joking about Mildura as it now stands. It now has an attractive purpose.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Too many level crossings - you'd have to use N-class not any kind of DMU to achieve reasonable speeds.

On the foamy gunzel side there's always the possibility of Ararat being a standard gauge rail hub in the future along with the foamy Mildura thing?
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Too many level crossings - you'd have to use N-class not any kind of DMU to achieve reasonable speeds.

On the foamy gunzel side there's always the possibility of Ararat being a standard gauge rail hub in the future along with the foamy Mildura thing?
don_dunstan
OMG @don we agree !

SG N-class Mildura/Maryborough and Horsham/Hamilton. Both easily do-able.

Only difficulty being: recruit enough pax to out-number the crew.

cheers
John
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I still can't see how a once-a-day train will get enough patronage to be viable compared to even the current coach service let alone an upgraded one.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Too many level crossings - you'd have to use N-class not any kind of DMU to achieve reasonable speeds.

On the foamy gunzel side there's always the possibility of Ararat being a standard gauge rail hub in the future along with the foamy Mildura thing?
OMG @don we agree !

SG N-class Mildura/Maryborough and Horsham/Hamilton. Both easily do-able.

Only difficulty being: recruit enough pax to out-number the crew.

cheers
John
justarider

That might not be a bad option actually.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Seeing as everybody else is feeling foamy, Horsham to Hamilton would be nice, but really, we should be thinking bigger, I'm talking alternating services to both Mount Gambier (population 30,000) and Portland (population 11,000) onto Horsham via Ararat (connecting with Melbourne bound Vlocities in each direction of course).

2 services each-way to each of Portland and Mount Gambier, each day, with coaches filling the gaps (when a train is headed for Mt Gambier, it is met by a coach at Heywood for Portland, etc)

This would of course require rebuilding the Mount Gambier line (after 26 years, I doubt much of what is left would be salvageable) and a new junction at Heywood, facing the other way from the old one would be needed. Also, upgraded/rebuilt stations at Portland and Mount Gambier and a completely new one at Heywood would be needed (At least Hamilton and Dunkeld are still in good condition and could probably take a PTV train today) and wholesale line upgrades from Portland to Maroona, as last I heard, this whole line isn't in great condition (are grain trains still limited to 40km/h?).

And if you want to implement a decent timetable, with each train from the South West meeting a Melbourne bound train at Ararat, and each train from Horsham also meeting a Melbourne bound train at Ararat, the Ararat line will probably require a major upgrade with a crossing loop in there somewhere (Trawalla maybe).

All in all, probably a couple of billion dollars right there.

That got out of hand.

Of course in reality, I know none of this will happen.

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