Aussie politics thread (2)

 
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
So you condone sexual assault, I'm glad we've got that settled.
Going to presume you meant me in that reply (you didn't quote me but whatever).

Do you want the inquiry into the historic case because:

A) You have solid proof that the Police were wrong to close the original investigation and therefore you know better?
B) You strongly believe it will give you the answer you want.
C) You believe that Porter is Guilty because an accusation was made against him and then withdrawn?

Replying with the 'ok boomer' trope implies you watch too much 'FriendlyJordies' types on YouTube and taken it verbatim. It also means you got too lazy to have a go at picking apart what I said. Hence I responded in kind and it got your back up didn't it. So you threw another lazy reply out to feed your ego.

When I read an article from a source I've not seen before I prefer to research who wrote it and their credentials. I also look at what other articles the author has written. Clearly the 'Journalist' has picked a side when you read the other articles they have written on The Monthly.

A woman died 2 years ago and some are trying to make political mileage out of it only because the media (some who are already bad enough) have reported on it in the last week. It is disgusting.

I don't condone proven cases of sexual assault. I also don't condone witch-hunts regardless of whom may be involved. Do you condone the later?
K160
A    Don't think from what I've read there was a police investigation. Lack of evidence with the death of the woman. Morrison was using the so called police investigation as a deflection. So perhaps you should catch upon current events  I dare say you were cheering it on when Emma Husar and Bill Shorten ( both found not guilty)were under the gun, but now a couple of conservative liars have been found out that's different

B See the 4 Corners episode called   "Inside the Canberra Bubble" and then have a real read of some his previous history written in various publications. Two failed marriages and various reported episodes of predatory behaviour. Not forgetting denying the allegations against him, but claiming he hasn't read the dossier.

C The only way Porter can clear himself of the stigma and damage to his reputation is to have a thorough independent, transparent enquiry.  He can never be found guilty of the current allegations, but if more comes out of poor behaviour, he is going to be totally stuffed. That's why he doesn't want one.

As for political mileage, all of them have been pretty quiet, understandably so. Penny Wong and Sarah Hanson Young have made a few comments, the y received and read the original dossier, fair enough. Imagine if they hadn't, Morrison would have buried his copy.


Witch hunt, you are joking aren't you. Scott Morrison said in 2019    " all rape victims should be believed." Hypocrisy knows no bounds.


So you don't condone proven cases of sexual assault, good, do you condone initial investigations into alleged sexual assault?

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  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
And if more stuff comes  out about Porter, it falls under the    " Is he a fit and proper person to be a minister in the Government category." And he clearly isn't.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-08/woman-told-counsellor-of-porter-rape-allegations-eight-years-ago/13221438  



Watch 4 Corners tonight.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
How do you defend yourself from allegations that are getting onto 40 years old - and against an accuser who has been dead for almost two years?

The woman herself withdrew her (unsigned) statement to NSW Police about the matter and her family spoke to Louise Milligan (from the ABC) on the matter only on the condition that the information wasn't used publicly. Milligan broke her promise to the family of the deceased and went public - disgraceful.

Meanwhile Kathy Sheriff was told by Victoria Police in 2014 that there wasn't enough evidence to get a case going against Bill Shorten, whom she alleges raped her at a Young Labor camp in 1986. And she's still alive, still campaigning and yet she's not getting a special Four Corners on her case -

Labor Cabinet Minister = no trial by media.
Liberal Cabinet Minister = let's get him!
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
And if more stuff comes  out about Porter, it falls under the    " Is he a fit and proper person to be a minister in the Government category." And he clearly isn't.
wobert
No - that's just heresay.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
From memory Don, the investigation into Bill Shorten went for something like 10 months.  
My question would be why did the Federal LNP government do everything in its power to have the original 4 Corners program pulled? As it was the ABC had to edit out  anything to do with the current allegations.   If they (porter& Tudge ) had nothing to hide, why bother.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
From memory Don, the investigation into Bill Shorten went for something like 10 months.  
My question would be why did the Federal LNP government do everything in its power to have the original 4 Corners program pulled? As it was the ABC had to edit out  anything to do with the current allegations.   If they (porter& Tudge ) had nothing to hide, why bother.
wobert
Ummm, because it's slanderous Wobert? Could that be the reason?
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
It could be Don, but Porter hasn't sued anyone so far lately over this issue. Because if he did, there would be a form of heavy duty enquiry or investigation. And Porter doesn't want that.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
It could be Don, but Porter hasn't sued anyone so far lately over this issue. Because if he did, there would be a form of heavy duty enquiry or investigation. And Porter doesn't want that.
wobert
Wobert, you seem to know yourself that this is a beat-up. Because it is.

If the Labor Party seriously thinks that the way into office is to embroil cabinet ministers in 40-year old allegations (with the aid of their ever-loyal friends at the ABC) then they'll be sorely disappointed. I'm sure the majority feel the way that I do and don't care.

There's no way that natural justice can be served in this case - so just let it drop. But again, the ABC never let an opportunity to get at the LNP pass them by, do they.
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
So you condone sexual assault, I'm glad we've got that settled.
Going to presume you meant me in that reply (you didn't quote me but whatever).

Do you want the inquiry into the historic case because:

A) You have solid proof that the Police were wrong to close the original investigation and therefore you know better?
B) You strongly believe it will give you the answer you want.
C) You believe that Porter is Guilty because an accusation was made against him and then withdrawn?

Replying with the 'ok boomer' trope implies you watch too much 'FriendlyJordies' types on YouTube and taken it verbatim. It also means you got too lazy to have a go at picking apart what I said. Hence I responded in kind and it got your back up didn't it. So you threw another lazy reply out to feed your ego.

When I read an article from a source I've not seen before I prefer to research who wrote it and their credentials. I also look at what other articles the author has written. Clearly the 'Journalist' has picked a side when you read the other articles they have written on The Monthly.

A woman died 2 years ago and some are trying to make political mileage out of it only because the media (some who are already bad enough) have reported on it in the last week. It is disgusting.

I don't condone proven cases of sexual assault. I also don't condone witch-hunts regardless of whom may be involved. Do you condone the later?
A    Don't think from what I've read there was a police investigation. Lack of evidence with the death of the woman. Morrison was using the so called police investigation as a deflection. So perhaps you should catch upon current events  I dare say you were cheering it on when Emma Husar and Bill Shorten ( both found not guilty)were under the gun, but now a couple of conservative liars have been found out that's different

B See the 4 Corners episode called   "Inside the Canberra Bubble" and then have a real read of some his previous history written in various publications. Two failed marriages and various reported episodes of predatory behaviour. Not forgetting denying the allegations against him, but claiming he hasn't read the dossier.

C The only way Porter can clear himself of the stigma and damage to his reputation is to have a thorough independent, transparent enquiry.  He can never be found guilty of the current allegations, but if more comes out of poor behaviour, he is going to be totally stuffed. That's why he doesn't want one.

As for political mileage, all of them have been pretty quiet, understandably so. Penny Wong and Sarah Hanson Young have made a few comments, the y received and read the original dossier, fair enough. Imagine if they hadn't, Morrison would have buried his copy.


Witch hunt, you are joking aren't you. Scott Morrison said in 2019    " all rape victims should be believed." Hypocrisy knows no bounds.


So you don't condone proven cases of sexual assault, good, do you condone initial investigations into alleged sexual assault?
wobert
Ah so this is how to get you to put out more than a one-liner. Funny that you didn't do this before.

A) The 'victim' withdrew their complaint via e-mail citing 'Medical and Personal Reasons'. I don't cheer on anyone being accused as they have the right to be presumed innocent until convicted of a crime. I didn't bring up the others for that reason. Who they represent in the parliament isn't the issue and should not ever be the issue in matters of this nature. You need to read more: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-04/nsw-police-clarify-historical-rape-allegation-christian-porter/13215504

B) So that made him automatically guilty of this one (if it actually happened)? Was he charged? This is your allegation and you are only citing the ABC 4 Corners doco as a firm source while claiming there is 'other publications'. What are the other sources?. Even Carl Williams wasn't convicted of all the Gangland War Murders in Melbourne despite having quite a bit to do with a few of them. The ones he got convicted for had to be proven so or he had to admit guilt to without duress.

C) Once you have an allegation tied to your name you a never fully clear of it. If there are others who claim he did anything want to take him to a court of law that is up to them and the court will decide based on the evidence (otherwise why bother having courts or even Police to investigate?). Why do you think the actor Geoffrey Rush filed a lawsuit against the publications after he was cleared by a court? The allegations resulted in him not doing any acting work and he has to see out his days with that case still hovering over his head despite being cleared. See https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-02/daily-telegraph-loses-defamation-appeal-in-geoffrey-rush-case/12414536

You have to have your head in the sand to not see what is going on. Some are pegging him as guilty and hence why they want the inquiry. They are basically saying the Police 'got it wrong' without much consideration for the woman and her choices in regards to withdrawing the complaint. And with the woman dead we cannot ask her the precise reasons why she withdrew her complaint (some have had a go but nothing concrete either way). If an allegation (even a withdrawn one) is enough to make a person automatically guilty then society has a problem....a big one.

A complaint deserves to be taken seriously. It also deserves to be tested in a court of law if the 'victim' wishes for it to proceed. They should be encouraged to proceed but ultimately it is up to them. If this complaint had not been withdrawn it would have more than likely.

To my last point it was supposed to be 'I don't condone sexual assault and don't condone allegations being made that cannot be proven to have happened'. Congratulations on picking that one up but you didn't get me to back-peddle. I know what I was trying to say and I got the words wrong so 50 lashes for me I guess. False allegations happen (unfortunately) and the impact is to the detriment of the 'accusers' and 'the accused parties'. Some reading: https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/false-sexual-assault-allegations-ruin-lives/
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
From memory Don, the investigation into Bill Shorten went for something like 10 months.  
My question would be why did the Federal LNP government do everything in its power to have the original 4 Corners program pulled? As it was the ABC had to edit out  anything to do with the current allegations.   If they (porter& Tudge ) had nothing to hide, why bother.
wobert
I would think any political party or individual would do everything possible to stop any broadcast on a alleged sexual assault from going to air for all the reasons that we are seeing in the media and being reposted in places like here.

Sexual assault allegations stick like $hit to a blanket and destroy careers especially high profile ones and peoples reputation, even if dismissed by the police or and or a court of law.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
It could be Don, but Porter hasn't sued anyone so far lately over this issue. Because if he did, there would be a form of heavy duty enquiry or investigation. And Porter doesn't want that.
wobert

He hasn't started legal action yet, he may not yet know who has made the allegations. Starting legal action such as this will be slow and not make this go away and never politically popular. The allegation has been made, the damage has been done, suing anyone now will not change this. Should it cost him his political career and more than likely this will then impact on his post political career then expect legal action to follow.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Ah so this is how to get you to put out more than a one-liner. Funny that you didn't do this before.

A) The 'victim' withdrew their complaint via e-mail citing 'Medical and Personal Reasons'. I don't cheer on anyone being accused as they have the right to be presumed innocent until convicted of a crime. I didn't bring up the others for that reason. Who they represent in the parliament isn't the issue and should not ever be the issue in matters of this nature. You need to read more: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-04/nsw-police-clarify-historical-rape-allegation-christian-porter/13215504

B) So that made him automatically guilty of this one (if it actually happened)? Was he charged? This is your allegation and you are only citing the ABC 4 Corners doco as a firm source while claiming there is 'other publications'. What are the other sources?. Even Carl Williams wasn't convicted of all the Gangland War Murders in Melbourne despite having quite a bit to do with a few of them. The ones he got convicted for had to be proven so or he had to admit guilt to without duress.

C) Once you have an allegation tied to your name you a never fully clear of it. If there are others who claim he did anything want to take him to a court of law that is up to them and the court will decide based on the evidence (otherwise why bother having courts or even Police to investigate?). Why do you think the actor Geoffrey Rush filed a lawsuit against the publications after he was cleared by a court? The allegations resulted in him not doing any acting work and he has to see out his days with that case still hovering over his head despite being cleared. See https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-02/daily-telegraph-loses-defamation-appeal-in-geoffrey-rush-case/12414536

You have to have your head in the sand to not see what is going on. Some are pegging him as guilty and hence why they want the inquiry. They are basically saying the Police 'got it wrong' without much consideration for the woman and her choices in regards to withdrawing the complaint. And with the woman dead we cannot ask her the precise reasons why she withdrew her complaint (some have had a go but nothing concrete either way). If an allegation (even a withdrawn one) is enough to make a person automatically guilty then society has a problem....a big one.

A complaint deserves to be taken seriously. It also deserves to be tested in a court of law if the 'victim' wishes for it to proceed. They should be encouraged to proceed but ultimately it is up to them. If this complaint had not been withdrawn it would have more than likely.

To my last point it was supposed to be 'I don't condone sexual assault and don't condone allegations being made that cannot be proven to have happened'. Congratulations on picking that one up but you didn't get me to back-peddle. I know what I was trying to say and I got the words wrong so 50 lashes for me I guess. False allegations happen (unfortunately) and the impact is to the detriment of the 'accusers' and 'the accused parties'. Some reading: https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/false-sexual-assault-allegations-ruin-lives/
K16
A                  Could have sworn I said something along the lines of the case never got going because the polices sited a lack of evidence myself. As for the rest, I’d say that is just a case of smeg covering on your behalf.

B     What on Earth to make of this word salad, well here goes I’ll try to make something out of it to keep myself  amused. What specific allegation did I make?  Did you read the article I linked to in the monthly and this link

  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-10/four-corners-investigation-christian-porter-sexism-inappropriate/12862910   perhaps you should read more

Have you seen the originall 4Corners program?      Porter hasn’t taken any legal action over this program, why not?  Especially when the SMH ran a front page headline the other day with several people backed the dead womans story, and Porter hasn’t sued.  If he does, well and good, if he’s confident enough of his position, bring it on.

As for other publications, ABC, The guardian,Tthe conversation, Michael West, Crikey, News.com ,  The Monthly,AIM Network, Independent Australia need I go on

Carl Williams,so, relevance?  

C   Um, so

Head in the sand, really, perhaps if you had read the article in The Monthly, and some of the links you might have learned a bit about the behavioural  aspects of sexual predators.  The link from Sydney Lawyers was interesting,  but a deflection
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
Wobert worries me a bit. Clearly not playing with a full deck and parrots rubbish like the Boomer comment. This is the only comment he deserves at this point....
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Can we please just get back to the point of the Aussie Politics (2) thread - which is Meghan Markel's Oprah interview?
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Wobert worries me a bit. Clearly not playing with a full deck and parrots rubbish like the Boomer comment. This is the only comment he deserves at this point....
K160
Have you watched the original 4Corners program(Inside the canberra bubble)  or are you just one of those old conservative white blokes that doesn't like uppity women.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Can we please just get back to the point of the Aussie Politics (2) thread - which is Meghan Markel's Oprah interview?
don_dunstan
Yeah, I tend to agree with you (rare moment) as it would appear the Kanagroo court is in session.
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
Ball is in Wobert's court....I'm done with his BS anyway.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Can we please just get back to the point of the Aussie Politics (2) thread - which is Meghan Markel's Oprah interview?
"don_dunstan"
Pay attention everybody; Don has now put himself in charge of the agenda. It's called delusions of importance.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Can we please just get back to the point of the Aussie Politics (2) thread - which is Meghan Markel's Oprah interview?
Pay attention everybody; Don has now put himself in charge of the agenda. It's called delusions of importance.
Valvegear
Girlfriend, you wish you were a tenth as interesting as I am.

I don't want to talk about some allegedly suicidal rape victim - did you see the 'note' she wrote about her 'rape' by Christian Porter published in the Australian on the weekend? It was all over, the family didn't even want their version of events released by the ABC ignored the request. Don't you think there's the tiniest bit of possibility that a dead person can't testify so we're now going one step beyond Pell (with only one witness) to now going to NO WITNESSES in order to try, convict and imprison people?

I weep for this nation - it's become Communist China without even trying.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
And Meghan Markle is a liar - as if she didn't Google the Royal Family in this day and age. Liar!
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Girlfriend, you wish you were a tenth as interesting as I am.
"don_dunstan"
Not really; I couldn't stand all the adulation and hero worship that you have to endure.
P.S. Give me your mail address, and I'll send you a little book that explains the difference between girls and boys.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Girlfriend, you wish you were a tenth as interesting as I am.
Not really; I couldn't stand all the adulation and hero worship that you have to endure.
P.S. Give me your mail address, and I'll send you a little book that explains the difference between girls and boys.
Valvegear
In all seriousness I don't want to talk about the allegations against Christian Porter - I don't know why the Labor Party is pursuing this, it's getting akin to the Starr Report about Clinton!

Let the justice system sort it out, this Four Corners thing denies Porter natural justice. There's no living witness - even less evidence than with Pell - and people out there still want a full inquiry.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Ball is in Wobert's court....I'm done with his BS anyway.
K160
Whatever
  doyle Deputy Commissioner

Let's just hide them until this thing blows over... It worked before when Reynolds and most of the government were hidden at the last election

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