Metro Rail Tunnel - Building Thread

 
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
Finally, an update on the progress of the TBMs.
Joan's dug a huge 18m southbound while Millie is northbound at 973m and Alice at 300m, which means Millie is past the half way mark and Alice has covered a sixth of the 1.8Km.

https://metrotunnel.vic.gov.au/construction/building-the-tunnels-and-stations/tunnel-boring-machines/tbm-tracker

Neil

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  Peter Spyker Train Controller

What gets done with the TBMs when they're finished with this? Has enough work been done on the SRL loop to move them straight onto that?
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

What gets done with the TBMs when they're finished with this? Has enough work been done on the SRL loop to move them straight onto that?
Peter Spyker
Might be cheaper to buy new TBMs if the diameter difference across 50+ km of tunnel is enough.

(note: I believe that the SRL would use smaller tunnels if going medium-rail, more akin to a subway sized train that can still go 100km/hr or more, hopefully 130+. Singapore has trains like this)
  Djebel Junior Train Controller

What gets done with the TBMs when they're finished with this? Has enough work been done on the SRL loop to move them straight onto that?
Might be cheaper to buy new TBMs if the diameter difference across 50+ km of tunnel is enough.

(note: I believe that the SRL would use smaller tunnels if going medium-rail, more akin to a subway sized train that can still go 100km/hr or more, hopefully 130+. Singapore has trains like this)
John.Z
How much $$$ savings are we (potentially, theoretically) talking here?  If the SRL is (at this stage) supposed  to share tracks with the airport line, then trains will have to be compatible with the rest of the network (voltage, platform accessibility, etc).  Is that particularly feasible with smaller trains?
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
If you want to find out more, go read the SRL thread at https://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11398258-s925.htm. Nothing much has been done towards getting SRL underway since serious work on it isn't starting until 2022, so no TBM is going to start digging for that  project this year.
Lots of info in that thread about what we know is going to happen with that; e.g. AC traction power, not DC,
The bulk of the 4 TBMs working on MM1 will be refurbished and re-used, probably in the SRL project, but there are going to have to be new shields constructed before the rest of the equipment is re-used as the originals are, somehow, going to be incorporated into Town Hall Station, as recorded earlier in this thread.

Neil
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

How much $$$ savings are we (potentially, theoretically) talking here?  If the SRL is (at this stage) supposed  to share tracks with the airport line, then trains will have to be compatible with the rest of the network (voltage, platform accessibility, etc).  Is that particularly feasible with smaller trains?
Djebel
That I'm not sure.

The SRL won't share tracks with the MARL. I am convinced that the section west of the Airport is at present just a line on a map to satisfy the electorate that the west hasn't been ignored even though that section is 30 years away from being built.

Given time, the SRL will continue more as a loop, going via watergardens, caroline springs and tarneit before terminating at werribee.

My other assumption is that each stage will be it's own individual line (Southland to Box Hill, Box Hill to Airport, Airport to Werribee). This is to avoid cascading delays which are inevitable over such a long distance. Same goes for the 903 bus.
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

The western section of SRL on the current 'plan' really is just lines on a map, IMO its going to change.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
How much $$$ savings are we (potentially, theoretically) talking here?  If the SRL is (at this stage) supposed  to share tracks with the airport line, then trains will have to be compatible with the rest of the network (voltage, platform accessibility, etc).  Is that particularly feasible with smaller trains?
That I'm not sure.

The SRL won't share tracks with the MARL. I am convinced that the section west of the Airport is at present just a line on a map to satisfy the electorate that the west hasn't been ignored even though that section is 30 years away from being built.

Given time, the SRL will continue more as a loop, going via watergardens, caroline springs and tarneit before terminating at werribee.

My other assumption is that each stage will be it's own individual line (Southland to Box Hill, Box Hill to Airport, Airport to Werribee). This is to avoid cascading delays which are inevitable over such a long distance. Same goes for the 903 bus.
John.Z
I see @justarider Disagrees. There is a Large piece of evidence that pretty much confirms the SRL and MARL with be segregated, its been confirmed it will use AC power instead of the DC power system the rest of the Melbourne rail network.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
How much $$$ savings are we (potentially, theoretically) talking here?  If the SRL is (at this stage) supposed  to share tracks with the airport line, then trains will have to be compatible with the rest of the network (voltage, platform accessibility, etc).  Is that particularly feasible with smaller trains?
That I'm not sure.

The SRL won't share tracks with the MARL. I am convinced that the section west of the Airport is at present just a line on a map to satisfy the electorate that the west hasn't been ignored even though that section is 30 years away from being built.

Given time, the SRL will continue more as a loop, going via watergardens, caroline springs and tarneit before terminating at werribee.

My other assumption is that each stage will be it's own individual line (Southland to Box Hill, Box Hill to Airport, Airport to Werribee). This is to avoid cascading delays which are inevitable over such a long distance. Same goes for the 903 bus.
I see @justarider Disagrees. There is a Large piece of evidence that pretty much confirms the SRL and MARL with be segregated, its been confirmed it will use AC power instead of the DC power system the rest of the Melbourne rail network.
Dangersdan707
Put it this way Dan.
If SRL(west) and MARL do not share track then its not a 30 year wait for the SRL last piece, its never.
A 16km track , mostly tunnel, from Airport to  Ravenhall, just to avoid the Sunshine detour (approx extra 6km). That is double MM1.

Couple of sure things. Using HCMT.
The MARL tunnel to Airport (about 1 km) will be the same size as Metro1 ( so yes , re-use the TBM)
It will be 1500v DC.

I disagree with John.Z that it would be 3 independant lines. Madness. Deliberate delays !!! to kill off any customer attraction.

Finally, 2 different spark systems does not preclude sharing. There are any number of dual voltage trains.

cheers
John
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
How much $$$ savings are we (potentially, theoretically) talking here?  If the SRL is (at this stage) supposed  to share tracks with the airport line, then trains will have to be compatible with the rest of the network (voltage, platform accessibility, etc).  Is that particularly feasible with smaller trains?
That I'm not sure.

The SRL won't share tracks with the MARL. I am convinced that the section west of the Airport is at present just a line on a map to satisfy the electorate that the west hasn't been ignored even though that section is 30 years away from being built.

Given time, the SRL will continue more as a loop, going via watergardens, caroline springs and tarneit before terminating at werribee.

My other assumption is that each stage will be it's own individual line (Southland to Box Hill, Box Hill to Airport, Airport to Werribee). This is to avoid cascading delays which are inevitable over such a long distance. Same goes for the 903 bus.
I see @justarider Disagrees. There is a Large piece of evidence that pretty much confirms the SRL and MARL with be segregated, its been confirmed it will use AC power instead of the DC power system the rest of the Melbourne rail network.
Put it this way Dan.
If SRL(west) and MARL do not share track then its not a 30 year wait for the SRL last piece, its never.
A 16km track , mostly tunnel, from Airport to  Ravenhall, just to avoid the Sunshine detour (approx extra 6km). That is double MM1.

Couple of sure things. Using HCMT.
The MARL tunnel to Airport (about 1 km) will be the same size as Metro1 ( so yes , re-use the TBM)
It will be 1500v DC.

I disagree with John.Z that it would be 3 independant lines. Madness. Deliberate delays !!! to kill off any customer attraction.

Finally, 2 different spark systems does not preclude sharing. There are any number of dual voltage trains.

cheers
John
justarider
Bit late with the reply sorry.

I entirely agree that the SRL will not be 3 seperate lines or systems, doing so would be incredibly stupid for costs logistics and passenger convenience.

However, I doubt that the SRL will share any tracks with the exisiting BG network based on whats been announced. Share the Same corridor for a section of it? Most probably. Do I think they will let trains intermingle? no, and I cannot see them ordering dual voltage stock in the short, or long term with SRL. My guess is that some sort of provision will be left in place on part of the airport rail link for the SRL's alinement and Future station. If intermingling with the exisiting network was planned, we would have heard already.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Put it this way @dan. If SRL(west) and MARL do not share track then its not a 30 year wait for the SRL last piece, its never.
Bit late with the reply sorry.

I entirely agree that the SRL will not be 3 seperate lines or systems, doing so would be incredibly stupid for costs logistics and passenger convenience.

However, I doubt that the SRL will share any tracks with the exisiting BG network based on whats been announced. Share the Same corridor for a section of it? Most probably. Do I think they will let trains intermingle? no, and I cannot see them ordering dual voltage stock in the short, or long term with SRL. My guess is that some sort of provision will be left in place on part of the airport rail link for the SRL's alinement and Future station. If intermingling with the exisiting network was planned, we would have heard already.
Dangersdan707
Firstly @dan, a bit of reality check.
Melbourne Metro trains are served by 3 companies - Alstrom, Downer, Bombardier. All of which have build/repair facilities on the BG network.

Iintroducing a 4th player, on the SG network is fanciful.

At some point SRL trains will have to get to/from the factory, so why make life difficult with SG.

Sharing corridor only sounds easy, until you consider that mean SIX tracks on the Albion detour, including 55m above the Maribyrnong.
And FOUR tunnels under the Airport.
A very expensive excercise for max 6 tpa.

cheers
John
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Put it this way @dan. If SRL(west) and MARL do not share track then its not a 30 year wait for the SRL last piece, its never.
Bit late with the reply sorry.

I entirely agree that the SRL will not be 3 seperate lines or systems, doing so would be incredibly stupid for costs logistics and passenger convenience.

However, I doubt that the SRL will share any tracks with the exisiting BG network based on whats been announced. Share the Same corridor for a section of it? Most probably. Do I think they will let trains intermingle? no, and I cannot see them ordering dual voltage stock in the short, or long term with SRL. My guess is that some sort of provision will be left in place on part of the airport rail link for the SRL's alinement and Future station. If intermingling with the exisiting network was planned, we would have heard already.
Firstly @dan, a bit of reality check.
Melbourne Metro trains are served by 3 companies - Alstrom, Downer, Bombardier. All of which have build/repair facilities on the BG network.

Iintroducing a 4th player, on the SG network is fanciful.

At some point SRL trains will have to get to/from the factory, so why make life difficult with SG.

Sharing corridor only sounds easy, until you consider that mean SIX tracks on the Albion detour, including 55m above the Maribyrnong.
And FOUR tunnels under the Airport.
A very expensive excercise for max 6 tpa.

cheers
John
justarider
I got to agree with Dan on this occasion about how probable it is for the SG and BG separation will be. Dual gauge trains/tracks do exist but the SRL project from the information so far is telling us it is a segregated line separate from the legacy network. Although it doesn't mean, it won't run on existing corridors it absolutely will do that, but its line is not connected at all with the legacy network.

The most probable outcome will be an SG network for the SRL line and BG as part of the Airport railway link. It's likely that the section btw Sunshine and when the Airport line comes off the Albion corridor will be a six-track corridor. But I believe the SRL would likely avoid the tunnels of the Airport line by continuing via the Alignment via Jacana and Broadmeadows instead of doing a major deviation to the Airport.

You'll be asking then how would SRL get to the Airport, well simply having a useful interchange stop at Keilor west. And Airport west station will be only served by SRL trains (since the Airport line diverts by that point).

Essentially you'd have a spur off the Airport and then you'd have the SRL route going via Broadmeadows to Sunshine using the full Albion corridor, with interchange to Airport via Keilor west. This is the most economically viable option I see them doing since it avoids tunnelling through most of Broadmeadows. I can see the Airport corridor increasing the 6 tph whenever they decide to build the SRL to the west which won't be for a very long time or at all. By increasing the Airport line frequency when SRL opens will mean interchanging will be quick and the loss of time bypassing it won't be as substantial as the cost-saving that result from it. Plus with the SRL going direct to the Airport it completely will skip any proper integration with the Airport west tram terminus and the shopping area, which would be essential for better connectivity in the area.