Aussie politics thread (2)

 
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
And there you are sticking up for an actual nonce in Jeffrey Epstein
mejhammers1
This one little slice of your long-winded rant neatly encapsulates what you're all about, Michael:
  • You read what I wrote but you still interpreted that as "Don Dunstan is sticking up for that pedo Jeffrey Epstein"
  • Anyone and everyone else who read it understood that what I was saying was that Epstein should have been kept alive to testify about his activities.
  • The fact that he died protected those people in high places from that happening. Convenient much? Especially seeing as BIll Clinton was one of his best buddies.
  • And yet you still - STILL - think that I'm somehow sticking up for that piece of filth.
You don't read and interpret information correctly, Michael - and you make assumptions about where other people are coming from that simply aren't true because you don't understand what they're saying properly. You're purely reactionary.

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  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
'Stealing' a seat on a train or tram that was running anyway?
The oldest and dumbest excuse in the book. Your fare is a fee for service, simple as that. If you wish to be unprincipled, there's not a lot those of us who are honest can do about it.
Valvegear
I knew someone would draw that bow.

I didn't say that I don't pay fares - I said that I knew someone (actually a manager at a place I worked at in Hawthorn) who habitually refused to buy tickets and was testing the system to its limits - all the way to Magistrate's Court - where in fact it turns out that PTV can't produce any evidence that your card WASN'T faulty and/or that the reader at the start of your trip was correctly functioning. Apparently the judge threw it out in about three minutes.

So it turns out that the whole Myki system has quite a feeble legal basis because PTV can't prove that the validators on your platform/tram/bus were actually working at the time of boarding. Personally I do buy tickets - both here and when I'm visiting interstate. What Aaron says is probably right, its likely too expensive for the VIC govt. to chase up interstate fare evaders but I just can't be bothered dealing with the bully boy ticket inspectors you have over there.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I didn't say that I don't pay fares -
"don_dunstan"
No; but you said that those who didn't were your heroes. You talk the talk but don't walk the walk. It's called taking the coward's way out.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
To be fare, on many of the railway systems on east coast and Adelaide that I have used, if you are travelling from minor station to minor station, especially shorter distances on the same line. The chances of being caught for fare evasion is SFA. The focus is very much getting people travelling to city or major stops. As fare evasion compliance is probably at a level that doesn't warrant further labour to police the system manually to a high degree, then this is what we have.

The technology of the current card systems is basically ancient and its about time the govt moved to the next level cards or smart phone systems that don't require a "touch", just knows you are on the train/bus/ferry and charges accordingly to your account.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

And there you are sticking up for an actual nonce in Jeffrey Epstein
This one little slice of your long-winded rant neatly encapsulates what you're all about, Michael:
  • You read what I wrote but you still interpreted that as "Don Dunstan is sticking up for that pedo Jeffrey Epstein"
  • Anyone and everyone else who read it understood that what I was saying was that Epstein should have been kept alive to testify about his activities.
  • The fact that he died protected those people in high places from that happening. Convenient much? Especially seeing as BIll Clinton was one of his best buddies.
  • And yet you still - STILL - think that I'm somehow sticking up for that piece of filth.
You don't read and interpret information correctly, Michael - and you make assumptions about where other people are coming from that simply aren't true because you don't understand what they're saying properly. You're purely reactionary.
don_dunstan
This one little slice of your long-winded rant neatly encapsulates what you're all about, Michael

From someone who rants on for pages and pages. But its only a rant when its someone else eh Don

You don't read and interpret information correctly, Michael - and you make assumptions about where other people are coming from that simply aren't true because you don't understand what they're saying properly. You're purely reactionary.

On this fair enough. A silly reaction to you scolding me for not being sorry that Epstein is dead. But don't flatter yourself Don. You ain't that complex to work out.

Michael
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
The chances of being caught for fare evasion is SFA.
RTT_Rules
This doesn't of course make it OK. It is still a crime. An honest person would make sure to pay the required fare even if there is nobody to collect it or if a so called smart card doesn't work. But sadly ethics have gone out the window...
  Upven Junior Train Controller

I love the way they news (7 or 9) blatantly show commercials disguised as news for the big two supermarkets during the 6pm bulletin. Coles and Woolworths are introducing "cafes/restaurants" into their stores and its a "game changer". Guess we've finally entered the 1990s.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The chances of being caught for fare evasion is SFA.
This doesn't of course make it OK. It is still a crime. An honest person would make sure to pay the required fare even if there is nobody to collect it or if a so called smart card doesn't work. But sadly ethics have gone out the window...
Graham4405
Never said it was, however its a problem the various rail operators are aware of and likely trying to find viable solutions to manage.

This is where I think the move to lets call it Industry 4.0 type solutions come into play and this will be moving away from the actual tapping. Just being on the station using existing smart phone technology. This way being caught on the train without an active ticket is an instant fine and our friends from Sth Australia and their friends on the train caught riding without an active ticket will be fined on the spot with no recourse.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I didn't say that I don't pay fares -
No; but you said that those who didn't were your heroes. You talk the talk but don't walk the walk. It's called taking the coward's way out.
Valvegear
What, I'm not allowed to admire people who are sticking it to the man? And I would have thought you'd be congratulating me for doing the right thing, instead you're still trying to find some way of judging me like all the other negative nellies on this board.

The VIC government would know full well that there are people like that out there who are good at not paying their way and they've factored that into the design of their hopeless, unfriendly system that can't even prove it was working in a court of law. Like supermarkets whinging when people were putting mushrooms through as carrots - my heart bleeds for them that they're getting stolen from in their desperate effort to cut costs and put people out of jobs!
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
What, I'm not allowed to admire people who are sticking it to the man? And I would have thought you'd be congratulating me for doing the right thing, instead you're still trying to find some way of judging me like all the other negative nellies on this board.
"don_dunstan"
You're allowed to admire whoever you like. It tells us a lot about you, and from that we make our judgements that you don't like. Tough luck. We can only work on what you write - we don't have your facility for mind reading.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
I didn't say that I don't pay fares -
No; but you said that those who didn't were your heroes. You talk the talk but don't walk the walk. It's called taking the coward's way out.
What, I'm not allowed to admire people who are sticking it to the man? And I would have thought you'd be congratulating me for doing the right thing, instead you're still trying to find some way of judging me like all the other negative nellies on this board.

The VIC government would know full well that there are people like that out there who are good at not paying their way and they've factored that into the design of their hopeless, unfriendly system that can't even prove it was working in a court of law. Like supermarkets whinging when people were putting mushrooms through as carrots - my heart bleeds for them that they're getting stolen from in their desperate effort to cut costs and put people out of jobs!
don_dunstan
Victim blaming.

Rail operators/gov't/whoever haven't got a system in place that guarantees absolute compliance, therefore they are fair game and it's their fault that they get ripped off, yeah? So they deserved it, yeah?

Just like you didn't get caught at 130 km/h in your Falcon ute last week therefore it is your right to travel that fast all the time, yeah?

just like you leaving the shopping trolley in no mans land because no-one compels you to return it. Stuff 'em, yeah?

Just like the peaceful, serene lady wearing a hijab deserved to be abused, because there was nothing stopping the abuser. just like the proud first nations elder deserved to be vilified because the vilifier is ignorant.

just like the chick who wore a mini skirt deserved to be raped. Etc. etc.

Don, it's time that you stopped this act. We're all aware that you are trying to portray a persona (let's face it, no-one could actually be like you in real life) to provoke responses to feed your ego, but enough is enough. We are all aware of your BS and the only reason that we keep the feed going is for our entertainment, not yours.

We're all laughing at you.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I didn't say that I don't pay fares -
No; but you said that those who didn't were your heroes. You talk the talk but don't walk the walk. It's called taking the coward's way out.
What, I'm not allowed to admire people who are sticking it to the man? And I would have thought you'd be congratulating me for doing the right thing, instead you're still trying to find some way of judging me like all the other negative nellies on this board.

The VIC government would know full well that there are people like that out there who are good at not paying their way and they've factored that into the design of their hopeless, unfriendly system that can't even prove it was working in a court of law. Like supermarkets whinging when people were putting mushrooms through as carrots - my heart bleeds for them that they're getting stolen from in their desperate effort to cut costs and put people out of jobs!
Victim blaming.

Rail operators/gov't/whoever haven't got a system in place that guarantees absolute compliance, therefore they are fair game and it's their fault that they get ripped off, yeah? So they deserved it, yeah?

Just like you didn't get caught at 130 km/h in your Falcon ute last week therefore it is your right to travel that fast all the time, yeah?

just like you leaving the shopping trolley in no mans land because no-one compels you to return it. Stuff 'em, yeah?

Just like the peaceful, serene lady wearing a hijab deserved to be abused, because there was nothing stopping the abuser. just like the proud first nations elder deserved to be vilified because the vilifier is ignorant.

just like the chick who wore a mini skirt deserved to be raped. Etc. etc.

Don, it's time that you stopped this act. We're all aware that you are trying to portray a persona (let's face it, no-one could actually be like you in real life) to provoke responses to feed your ego, but enough is enough. We are all aware of your BS and the only reason that we keep the feed going is for our entertainment, not yours.

We're all laughing at you.
DirtyBallast
You speak for everyone on this board? Good to know.

Basis fact: You design a system that's vulnerable to exploitation by dishonest people and then are shocked when it happens? Gimme a break. They've done the math and decided that they're prepared to wear the losses from people cheating their system by removing employees from the process. They've got no right to any kind of moral outrage when people take advantage: That's all I'm saying.

You then go on to draw possibly the longest bow that I've ever seen anyone on this board do - saying that I must therefore condone other bad behaviour starting with speeding, racial abuse and ending with my endorsement of women who get raped for wearing short skits. And what, you've never, ever left a shopping trolley in a carpark instead of taking it back inside the shop?

Liar.

Frankly you're a vile piece of work for saying that and I really wish there was a 'block' feature on this board so I didn't have to read the foul, slanderous rubbish that comes from your keyboard.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
What, I'm not allowed to admire people who are sticking it to the man? And I would have thought you'd be congratulating me for doing the right thing, instead you're still trying to find some way of judging me like all the other negative nellies on this board.
You're allowed to admire whoever you like. It tells us a lot about you, and from that we make our judgements that you don't like. Tough luck. We can only work on what you write - we don't have your facility for mind reading.
Valvegear
Like DirtyBallast you're still desperately trying to find a way to condemn me for poor morality over my simple observation: The VIC government designed and implemented a ticketing system that is legally unenforceable and if Melbourne residents really don't want to pay for their fares they don't have to. There's no morality involved, I'm just telling it how it is.

PTV and the VIC government really have to be blamed for allowing this system to continue to be exploited by people who won't pay and are actually clever about it.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.

And what, you've never, ever left a shopping trolley in a carpark instead of taking it back inside the shop?
don_dunstan
It is not actually necessary to return the shopping trolley to inside the shop. We have these things in Victoria called trolley bays. I have never ever not returned a shopping trolley to one.  

Do you know why?

Because it is the right thing to do. For the same reason, I've never even been tempted to evade a fare.

Long bow or not, it is plain to see that you are the type of character who will take a mile if given an inch. You are obviously supportive of people doing the wrong thing, regardless if it is ripping a few dollars off honest taxpayers or kneeling on someone's neck. It's all the same.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
What, I'm not allowed to admire people who are sticking it to the man? And I would have thought you'd be congratulating me for doing the right thing, instead you're still trying to find some way of judging me like all the other negative nellies on this board.
You're allowed to admire whoever you like. It tells us a lot about you, and from that we make our judgements that you don't like. Tough luck. We can only work on what you write - we don't have your facility for mind reading.
Like DirtyBallast you're still desperately trying to find a way to condemn me for poor morality over my simple observation: The VIC government designed and implemented a ticketing system that is legally unenforceable and if Melbourne residents really don't want to pay for their fares they don't have to. There's no morality involved, I'm just telling it how it is.

PTV and the VIC government really have to be blamed for allowing this system to continue to be exploited by people who won't pay and are actually clever about it.
don_dunstan
I'm not legally required to be nice and provide respect to people when catching the train, but I do anyway because its the right thing to do. There's no morality involved, I'm just telling it how it is.

The issue is while there are clearly a few loop holes, the numbers taking advantage of these loop holes are obviously in the minority and not worth the govts time and effort to put the required legal changes in place. Comes down to cost benefit Don.

In the past the govt paid for people to stand there to check tickets, for which we all know still had its loop holes. The classic one when I was at school was to simply get off the train in a position the station guard couldn't see you. Wait for the people off the train to empty from the station, at which point the guard would return to the office, then you left. Or simply jumped off the other end of the platform. Did I personally do this, yes once or twice, but mostly I travelled with a ticket if I had the money in my pocket but in general I lived in fear of getting caught so it was rare. Would I do it today? No and I have no reason to do so.

While the PTV and Vic govt can be held accountable for how the system is operated including revenue protection, they cannot held accountable for peoples choices to live outside community expectations to do the right thing and it will always be impossible to make the system bullet proof. Likewise these same people you are protecting, if they were to complain about other anti-social behavior, would you listen to them?
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
and I really wish there was a 'block' feature on this board so I didn't have to read the foul, slanderous rubbish that comes from your keyboard.
don_dunstan
Umm, newsflash, you don't actually have to come here to read anyone's posts.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Like DirtyBallast you're still desperately trying to find a way to condemn me for poor morality over my simple observation:
"don_dunstan"
We don't have to desperately try; you do it all for us. What you write is what we respond to. QED.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Umm, newsflash, you don't actually have to come here to read anyone's posts.
DirtyBallast

Ditto. But saying that I condone rape because I won't condemn fare dodgers was a vile thing to direct at me.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Like DirtyBallast you're still desperately trying to find a way to condemn me for poor morality over my simple observation:
We don't have to desperately try; you do it all for us. What you write is what we respond to. QED.
Valvegear
Well you look for things to be outraged about so all I'm doing is giving you what you so desperately crave.

You remind me of that Kenny Everett character - "Angry of Mayfair":

  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
What, I'm not allowed to admire people who are sticking it to the man? And I would have thought you'd be congratulating me for doing the right thing, instead you're still trying to find some way of judging me like all the other negative nellies on this board.
You're allowed to admire whoever you like. It tells us a lot about you, and from that we make our judgements that you don't like. Tough luck. We can only work on what you write - we don't have your facility for mind reading.
Like DirtyBallast you're still desperately trying to find a way to condemn me for poor morality over my simple observation: The VIC government designed and implemented a ticketing system that is legally unenforceable and if Melbourne residents really don't want to pay for their fares they don't have to. There's no morality involved, I'm just telling it how it is.

PTV and the VIC government really have to be blamed for allowing this system to continue to be exploited by people who won't pay and are actually clever about it.
I'm not legally required to be nice and provide respect to people when catching the train, but I do anyway because its the right thing to do. There's no morality involved, I'm just telling it how it is.

The issue is while there are clearly a few loop holes, the numbers taking advantage of these loop holes are obviously in the minority and not worth the govts time and effort to put the required legal changes in place. Comes down to cost benefit Don.

In the past the govt paid for people to stand there to check tickets, for which we all know still had its loop holes. The classic one when I was at school was to simply get off the train in a position the station guard couldn't see you. Wait for the people off the train to empty from the station, at which point the guard would return to the office, then you left. Or simply jumped off the other end of the platform. Did I personally do this, yes once or twice, but mostly I travelled with a ticket if I had the money in my pocket but in general I lived in fear of getting caught so it was rare. Would I do it today? No and I have no reason to do so.

While the PTV and Vic govt can be held accountable for how the system is operated including revenue protection, they cannot held accountable for peoples choices to live outside community expectations to do the right thing and it will always be impossible to make the system bullet proof. Likewise these same people you are protecting, if they were to complain about other anti-social behavior, would you listen to them?
RTT_Rules
Thank-you for a considered and thought-out post, one of your best.

Fare-evasion appears to be least of their problems over there.

I saw heaps of antisocial behavior on public transport while living in Melbourne and you often wonder how responsible you are as an individual, whether you should take steps to stop it yourself - because you could find yourself easily snotted especially if its a bunch of kids looking for trouble and then the police will lecture you on the fact that you should never have become involved. Its definitely got worse since the 90's and the withdrawal of most staff from the system.

Thankfully the worst thing that ever really happened to me was a drunk twenty-something who took of his shoes and threw his socks at me because I told him to shut the f... up when he was hassling a young woman on a number 6 tram late at night. Footscray was the very worst though, despite predictions of immanent gentrification that place is still a hive of crime and drug dealing, especially at those bus stops on Paisley Street. I feel sorry for anyone who has to transit though those places. I once had the pleasure of seeing a smackie aggressively beg from people on a 82 Z3 tram to Highpoint before he vomited loudly and copiously at the rear of the tram. Nobody batted an eyelid; living in the inner west you kinda become immune to it. He subsequently gets off at Highpoint with most of the other passengers and immediately starts begging in front of the nearest entrance... charming.

Living in a big, impersonal place like that you do see some stuff that makes you despair of humanity - the very least of their problems is habitual fare evaders. I'm not saying Adelaide is much better, we certainly have our problems too - but it seems to be much more visible in Melbourne - especially on public transport.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Angry of Mayfair Don?

Says the man who is angry about everything from Meghan Markle, China, Mr Potato Head, anti racism, the ALP and your cult leader Don Trump.

Compared to you Valvegear is the epitomy of reason. Actually a rabid dog is less angry than you Don.


Michael
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Thank-you for a considered and thought-out post, one of your best.

Fare-evasion appears to be least of their problems over there.

I saw heaps of antisocial behavior on public transport while living in Melbourne and you often wonder how responsible you are as an individual, whether you should take steps to stop it yourself - because you could find yourself easily snotted especially if its a bunch of kids looking for trouble and then the police will lecture you on the fact that you should never have become involved. Its definitely got worse since the 90's and the withdrawal of most staff from the system.

Thankfully the worst thing that ever really happened to me was a drunk twenty-something who took of his shoes and threw his socks at me because I told him to shut the f... up when he was hassling a young woman on a number 6 tram late at night. Footscray was the very worst though, despite predictions of immanent gentrification that place is still a hive of crime and drug dealing, especially at those bus stops on Paisley Street. I feel sorry for anyone who has to transit though those places. I once had the pleasure of seeing a smackie aggressively beg from people on a 82 Z3 tram to Highpoint before he vomited loudly and copiously at the rear of the tram. Nobody batted an eyelid; living in the inner west you kinda become immune to it. He subsequently gets off at Highpoint with most of the other passengers and immediately starts begging in front of the nearest entrance... charming.

Living in a big, impersonal place like that you do see some stuff that makes you despair of humanity - the very least of their problems is habitual fare evaders. I'm not saying Adelaide is much better, we certainly have our problems too - but it seems to be much more visible in Melbourne - especially on public transport.
don_dunstan
Its been a while since I caught PT in Melbourne, Broadmeadows to somewhere near Bayswater daily for about 4 days, that was 18 years ago.

Yes the station and train guards provided a form of security, however they were not security, their geographic area of accountability is limited and they wouldn't normally chase you and basically easy to avoid if you wanted (personal experience in Sydney where I grew up). I think the best is to focus on roving asset/revenue protection and increased use of cameras to enable greater monitoring.

Watched an interesting video of late that seems to indicate that mass roll out of security camera's in the London has been very effective at reducing overall crime. Their camera's also often include the ability for the monitoring security staff to talk to those being observed and this seems very effective and stopping unsocial behavior.

Unfortunately the druggies of society are here for good as the govt appears to show little interest in locking them up and this is something I'm going to miss when leaving Dubai as I don't have to put up with that crap here and why so many western expats choose to live here. Personally opinion being caught out on the streets undertaking anti social behavior 3 times in a row under the influence of any drug including alcohol and its off to a remote prison farm for at least a month to help detox. Each re-offence adds another month.  

I have no interest in living in Melbourne and would unlikely accept any job offer to do so. Wife and I have discussed what would do if the "magic" role was offered there and it would be commuting from rural area regardless of the travel time. Yes I know rural areas have their problems too, was very surprised during a visit to Batlow in 2018 to hear wife's relatives complaining about the ICE (not referring to train or car engines) problem there.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Well you look for things to be outraged about so all I'm doing is giving you what you so desperately crave.
don_dunstan
Another failed attempt at justification. Nobody in his right mind would believe such nonsense. One wonders what compulsion drives you into making a fool of yourself with silly statements like that one.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Umm, newsflash, you don't actually have to come here to read anyone's posts.

Ditto. But saying that I condone rape because I won't condemn fare dodgers was a vile thing to direct at me.
don_dunstan
What are you going to do about it?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Angry of Mayfair Don?

Says the man who is angry about everything from Meghan Markle, China, Mr Potato Head, anti racism, the ALP and your cult leader Don Trump.

Compared to you Valvegear is the epitomy of reason. Actually a rabid dog is less angry than you Don.


Michael
mejhammers1
LOL you missed your calling writing for 'The Two Ronnies', Michael. Or maybe "Love Thy Neighbour".

What, I'm not allowed to come here and complain about things I don't like - like you do?

By the way its 'epitome'... hate to be a lemony schoolmistress but yeah.

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