Aussie politics thread (2)

 
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

https://indifferencegivesyouafright.wordpress.com/2012/08/06/tim-flannery-did-not-say-australias-dams-would-never-fill-again/
I knew that denial was going to come up - read the interview for yourself (I linked purposely so you can make up your own mind) and decide what he was saying. I think it was purposely alarmist - and he tried to walk it back later on when there were heavy rains in 2010 and other subsequent years.

He's said other things: Other climate change super-stars have made some pretty bold predictions that haven't come through either - Al Gore said the Arctic would be free of summer ice on German TV once and then retracted the prediction when it didn't come through.

There were really hugely expensive mistakes made because of that advice, not the least of which is the VIC desal plant at Wonthaggi, clearly a really expensive Bracks decision that will be a millstone around VIC water users for a few more decades to come.
Firstly to address your wail from a couple of posts up. Warragamba might be spilling now, but Thomson hasn't filled or spilled since 1996. You obviously think that Warragamba is Australia's only dam. Keepit, in the God-forsaken drylands of northern NSW and only a few hours drive from flood stricken Moree is only 60% full.

Your Gore reference has been debunked so many times, yet you still cum in your pants over it. in his speech, Gore referenced someone else who made that claim, yet you continually try to pin it on him directly (for newbies here, I have previously challenged don_dunstan for a link to prove his position and all he could come up with is "It's on youtube somewhere, look it up yourself" or similar).  

Fun fact: Wonthaggi desal plant prevented Melbourne from suffering through water restrictions last summer.
DirtyBallast
Don should have a look at Siberia where rising temperatures have caused rising mounds of earth to explode due to methane and CO2 being released from unstable perma frost. The same is apparently happening with melting ice releasing the same gases. I understand the same is happening in Alaska and Northern Canada. Too much of this stuff releasing could lead to a runaway greenhouse condition.

Lightening could also ignite the methane gas and exacerbate the problem.

Don reminds me of King Canute trying to hold back the ocean, even when the water covers his head.

The changes I referred to above are not BS but actually happening.

Sponsored advertisement

  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Firstly to address your wail from a couple of posts up. Warragamba might be spilling now, but Thomson hasn't filled or spilled since 1996.
"DirtyBallast"
As also Eildon and Dartmouth, along with the smaller ones like Laanecoorie, Cairn Curran, Tullaroop and Eppalock.

Fun fact: Wonthaggi desal plant prevented Melbourne from suffering through water restrictions last summer.
"DirtyBallast"
Quote directly from the Melbourne Water web page:-
"Note that water from the Victorian Desalination Plant is contributing to our water storages. The 2020-21 water order of 125 gigalitres from the Victorian Desalination Plant commenced on July 1.
• For an overview of the daily amount contributed to our water storages over the past 30 days, see our desalination data.
• For more on how desalination contributes to securing our water supply, view our desalination page."
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Firstly to address your wail from a couple of posts up. Warragamba might be spilling now, but Thomson hasn't filled or spilled since 1996.
As also Eildon and Dartmouth, along with the smaller ones like Laanecoorie, Cairn Curran, Tullaroop and Eppalock.

Fun fact: Wonthaggi desal plant prevented Melbourne from suffering through water restrictions last summer.
Quote directly from the Melbourne Water web page:-
"Note that water from the Victorian Desalination Plant is contributing to our water storages. The 2020-21 water order of 125 gigalitres from the Victorian Desalination Plant commenced on July 1.
• For an overview of the daily amount contributed to our water storages over the past 30 days, see our desalination data.
• For more on how desalination contributes to securing our water supply, view our desalination page."
Valvegear
Eppalock and a few others filled in 2016.  Most are Northern Vic storages are languishing at 35-50% atm.  Eildon is at 60% which is good for March.

On another topic - NSW Nationals MP and serial creep, Michael Johnsen, will probably have to resign.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Firstly to address your wail from a couple of posts up. Warragamba might be spilling now, but Thomson hasn't filled or spilled since 1996. You obviously think that Warragamba is Australia's only dam. Keepit, in the God-forsaken drylands of northern NSW and only a few hours drive from flood stricken Moree is only 60% full.
DirtyBallast
Anyone would think that Australian rainfall cycles had in fact continued as normal just like they always have with parts of the nation flooding while other parts are still a bit dry.

Flannery also said in 2009 that Perth would become uninhabitable due to lack of rain and he made that same claim again recently (2017). Last time I checked Perth still had a reasonably healthy water supply and was doing okay.
Your Gore reference has been debunked so many times, yet you still cum in your pants over it. in his speech, Gore referenced someone else who made that claim, yet you continually try to pin it on him directly (for newbies here, I have previously challenged don_dunstan for a link to prove his position and all he could come up with is "It's on youtube somewhere, look it up yourself" or similar).
DirtyBallast
Because its true: Politifact -

Gore made similar statements about Arctic ice in his 2007 Nobel prize acceptance speech and, in 2008, a video of the opening of a German museum captured Gore saying that "the entire North polar ice cap may well be completely gone in five years."

In his Academy Award-winning 2006 documentary  "An Inconvenient Truth," Gore warned about the coming impact of climate change on the Arctic ice cap, but he said studies showed it would be gone in the summertime "within the next 50 to 70 years" — so by 2056 or 2076.

So he changed the goalposts on his own claims, many of these 'climate scientists' do, nothing unusual about that. Yet again I've proven how apparently incapable you people are of Googling basic facts... are you sure you're literate enough to operate an actual interwebs device? Shall I come over to your house and teach you how to use the washing machine too?
Fun fact: Wonthaggi desal plant prevented Melbourne from suffering through water restrictions last summer.
DirtyBallast
A snip at $30,000,000,000 plus interest, plus all the extra carbon emissions that you people seem to think are a problem. There's no way carbon-free extra dams would have been cheaper, right?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Don should have a look at Siberia where rising temperatures have caused rising mounds of earth to explode due to methane and CO2 being released from unstable perma frost. The same is apparently happening with melting ice releasing the same gases. I understand the same is happening in Alaska and Northern Canada. Too much of this stuff releasing could lead to a runaway greenhouse condition.

Lightening could also ignite the methane gas and exacerbate the problem.

Don reminds me of King Canute trying to hold back the ocean, even when the water covers his head.

The changes I referred to above are not BS but actually happening.
nswtrains
Its never happened before? It's definitely a sign of increasing Co2 in the atmosphere?

Even if your alarmist claims about methane destroying the planet are true AND if carbon dioxide is responsible - there's nothing whatsoever that we can do to avoid it.

China is building 126 new coal fired power plants and has just built a new railway line to distribute brown coal from the north to the south - there's going to be more 'poisonous' Co2 than ever by 2050. How do you propose to stop carbon emissions from rising given there are 1,600 new coal fired power plants being built it 62 countries across the globe?

Nothing we do in this country will make any difference to the final outcome, you're just deluding yourself if you think so.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Firstly to address your wail from a couple of posts up. Warragamba might be spilling now, but Thomson hasn't filled or spilled since 1996.
As also Eildon and Dartmouth, along with the smaller ones like Laanecoorie, Cairn Curran, Tullaroop and Eppalock.

Fun fact: Wonthaggi desal plant prevented Melbourne from suffering through water restrictions last summer.
Quote directly from the Melbourne Water web page:-
"Note that water from the Victorian Desalination Plant is contributing to our water storages. The 2020-21 water order of 125 gigalitres from the Victorian Desalination Plant commenced on July 1.
• For an overview of the daily amount contributed to our water storages over the past 30 days, see our desalination data.
• For more on how desalination contributes to securing our water supply, view our desalination page."
Valvegear
Melbourne could have made it through the last few summers perfectly fine WITHOUT that desal plant spewing carbon into the atmosphere. And anyway, maybe Melbourne SHOULD be on permanent water restrictions - why should they get the benefit of expensive electrically reprocessed sea-water when the rest of Victoria isn't set up to enjoy the benefits?

And maybe Melbourne a 4 million people is simply too big to be situated where it is - the ecology is telling us that 4 million city-dwellers in that particular spot can't be sustained by their environment and simply shouldn't be there.

Much of Melbourne's infrastructure comes from a time when it was planned by the MMBW to be a maximum of 1.5-2 million or so - hell, the rail network was built when it was barely quarter of a million. Maybe Melbourne at 4 million in a spot with such unreliable rainfall has passed ecological limits on this very dry, traditionally quite drought-stricken continent?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
A snip at $30,000,000,000 plus interest, plus all the extra carbon emissions that you people seem to think are a problem. There's no way carbon-free extra dams would have been cheaper, right?
don_dunstan

As the representative from SA is so adept at being a superior and obviously more intelligent human being, extra dams are fine...assuming there's rain to fill them and that's where your climate change denial argument falls flat on its face.

It actually has to rain in significant quantities for the dams to work.
Moreover, as Melbourne is growing so exponentially the desal plant is a necessary insurance policy against the inevitable future droughts.

Oh, and you cannot have your cake and eat it too. Either you're a denier, or you're a believer. You can't be both. My bet, as you've been brainwashed by the Murdoch media...you're a denier.

For most everyone else:

https://www.theage.com.au/environment/environmental-study-gives-desal-plant-green-light-20080820-3ywm.html

Mike.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
As the representative from SA is so adept at being a superior and obviously more intelligent human being, extra dams are fine...assuming there's rain to fill them and that's where your climate change denial argument falls flat on its face.

It actually has to rain in significant quantities for the dams to work.
Moreover, as Melbourne is growing so exponentially the desal plant is a necessary insurance policy against the inevitable future droughts.

Oh, and you cannot have your cake and eat it too. Either you're a denier, or you're a believer. You can't be both. My bet, as you've been brainwashed by the Murdoch media...you're a denier.

For most everyone else:

https://www.theage.com.au/environment/environmental-study-gives-desal-plant-green-light-20080820-3ywm.html

Mike.
The Vinelander
So if I install a 20,000 litre rainwater tank on my house in addition to the existing 20,000 litre tank it makes no difference whatsoever to my water supply? That's pretty much what you're arguing.

When you have extremely heavy rainfall events as they've had on the eastern seaboard recently then you have the capacity to store that water for later use. Carbon-free, no intensive electricity use required. There's no way you can favorable compare ridiculously expensive desalination to simple dam storage - desalination is always worse for the environment.

Stick to being outraged by long dead train services, Mike - it's what you're good at.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Heard descriptions of the member for cook’s cabinet reshuffle, like turning your dirty underpants inside out.
Can’t really disagree.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
Firstly to address your wail from a couple of posts up. Warragamba might be spilling now, but Thomson hasn't filled or spilled since 1996. You obviously think that Warragamba is Australia's only dam. Keepit, in the God-forsaken drylands of northern NSW and only a few hours drive from flood stricken Moree is only 60% full.
Anyone would think that Australian rainfall cycles had in fact continued as normal just like they always have with parts of the nation flooding while other parts are still a bit dry.

Flannery also said in 2009 that Perth would become uninhabitable due to lack of rain and he made that same claim again recently (2017). Last time I checked Perth still had a reasonably healthy water supply and was doing okay.
Your Gore reference has been debunked so many times, yet you still cum in your pants over it. in his speech, Gore referenced someone else who made that claim, yet you continually try to pin it on him directly (for newbies here, I have previously challenged don_dunstan for a link to prove his position and all he could come up with is "It's on youtube somewhere, look it up yourself" or similar).
Because its true: Politifact -

Gore made similar statements about Arctic ice in his 2007 Nobel prize acceptance speech and, in 2008, a video of the opening of a German museum captured Gore saying that "the entire North polar ice cap may well be completely gone in five years."

In his Academy Award-winning 2006 documentary  "An Inconvenient Truth," Gore warned about the coming impact of climate change on the Arctic ice cap, but he said studies showed it would be gone in the summertime "within the next 50 to 70 years" — so by 2056 or 2076.

So he changed the goalposts on his own claims, many of these 'climate scientists' do, nothing unusual about that. Yet again I've proven how apparently incapable you people are of Googling basic facts... are you sure you're literate enough to operate an actual interwebs device? Shall I come over to your house and teach you how to use the washing machine too?
Fun fact: Wonthaggi desal plant prevented Melbourne from suffering through water restrictions last summer.
A snip at $30,000,000,000 plus interest, plus all the extra carbon emissions that you people seem to think are a problem. There's no way carbon-free extra dams would have been cheaper, right?
don_dunstan
Thank you for providing a link to (1) vindicate my claim that Gore was referencing others initially, (2) he never said 'will' but said 'could' or 'may well', (3) still shifts goalposts less than you when your predictions inevitably turn pear shaped.

Thanks for the insult too; I expected nothing less.

What a man.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Thank you for providing a link to (1) vindicate my claim that Gore was referencing others initially, (2) he never said 'will' but said 'could' or 'may well', (3) still shifts goalposts less than you when your predictions inevitably turn pear shaped.
DirtyBallast
Ah, so Gore made the all-important qualification of 'could' or 'may well'. That makes all the difference then doesn't it. Where have MY predictions 'inevitably turned pear-shaped'?

Thanks for the insult too; I expected nothing less. What a man.
DirtyBallast
Thanks for the earlier insult saying "...yet you still cum in your pants over it". I actually don't have to say anything, you regularly show us what a piece of foul-mouthed gutter trash you really are.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
This KNUCKLEHEAD should resign from the NSW Parliament forthwith!
NSW Premier, Deputy Premier call for Michael Johnsen's resignation after 'disturbing' text messages revealed - ABC News
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
A snip at $30,000,000,000 plus interest, plus all the extra carbon emissions that you people seem to think are a problem. There's no way carbon-free extra dams would have been cheaper, right?
don_dunstan
Questions for our out-of-state expert:
Where would you put these extra dams?
How many streams would be affected?
How much privately-owned land would be acquired and flooded?
How extensive are the catchment areas?
Will any of the new catchments encroach upon others?
Have you factored land acquisition, pipelines, pumps and other infrastructure into your doubtless comprehensive cost sheet?
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Since when did the desal plant cost  30 billion dollars?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
A snip at $30,000,000,000 plus interest, plus all the extra carbon emissions that you people seem to think are a problem. There's no way carbon-free extra dams would have been cheaper, right?
Questions for our out-of-state expert:
Where would you put these extra dams?
How many streams would be affected?
How much privately-owned land would be acquired and flooded?
How extensive are the catchment areas?
Will any of the new catchments encroach upon others?
Have you factored land acquisition, pipelines, pumps and other infrastructure into your doubtless comprehensive cost sheet?
Valvegear
Perfectly legitimate questions and naturally I don't have all the answers to it. All I'm saying is that greater capacity to store to the run off would have been the answer but politically (apparently) non-negotiable. Bolte managed to construct some pretty huge projects in his time that bolstered Victoria's water security - why couldn't that be done in the early 2000's?

It strikes me as really perverse that the solution that they came up with fifteen years ago when when I was a resident that the ideal solution was to make it from sea-water using the most expensive and energy-intensive processes possible - that and the Sugarloaf pipeline stealing water from irrigators and country people to feed Melbourne's insatiable appetite for water. Neither the Wonthaggi plant nor the pipeline were properly thought through in my opinion - they were rushed because of the climate change doom-sayers.

The other solution that wasn't even considered in 2007 was using recycled water from the various sewage farms to top up the reservoirs - the Eastern Treatment Plant (as we've discussed previously) discharges water from its outfall so clean, completely free of Ecoli etc that its suitable for drinking - but again, that's not something we can even consider in this country. They once proposed water storage topped up with ultra-clean treated sewage in Ipswich QLD some years ago but the locals screamed blue murder and it never happened.

I just don't get that the most energy intensive, carbon intensive process was the one chosen as the solution - maybe because it was the only politically acceptable one? But certainly not the most environmentally-friendly.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
As the representative from SA is so adept at being a superior and obviously more intelligent human being, extra dams are fine...assuming there's rain to fill them and that's where your climate change denial argument falls flat on its face.

It actually has to rain in significant quantities for the dams to work.
Moreover, as Melbourne is growing so exponentially the desal plant is a necessary insurance policy against the inevitable future droughts.

Oh, and you cannot have your cake and eat it too. Either you're a denier, or you're a believer. You can't be both. My bet, as you've been brainwashed by the Murdoch media...you're a denier.

For most everyone else:

https://www.theage.com.au/environment/environmental-study-gives-desal-plant-green-light-20080820-3ywm.html

Mike.
So if I install a 20,000 litre rainwater tank on my house in addition to the existing 20,000 litre tank it makes no difference whatsoever to my water supply? That's pretty much what you're arguing.

When you have extremely heavy rainfall events as they've had on the eastern seaboard recently then you have the capacity to store that water for later use. Carbon-free, no intensive electricity use required. There's no way you can favorable compare ridiculously expensive desalination to simple dam storage - desalination is always worse for the environment.

Stick to being outraged by long dead train services, Mike - it's what you're good at.
don_dunstan

Feel free to ridicule me if you wish....it's what you resort to when you scrape the bottom of your barrel.

The 'eastern seaboard' is around 500Km EAST of Melbourne... The rivers don't run east-west and there's the little matter of the Australian Alps between the seaboard and Melbourne.

Also feel free to acquire your 20,000 litre rainwater tank and we will all be convinced that from afar, we will no longer need the desal plant because some geezer in SA has installed a 20,000 litre rainwater tank to 'save us'...

M.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
As the representative from SA is so adept at being a superior and obviously more intelligent human being, extra dams are fine...assuming there's rain to fill them and that's where your climate change denial argument falls flat on its face.

It actually has to rain in significant quantities for the dams to work.
Moreover, as Melbourne is growing so exponentially the desal plant is a necessary insurance policy against the inevitable future droughts.

Oh, and you cannot have your cake and eat it too. Either you're a denier, or you're a believer. You can't be both. My bet, as you've been brainwashed by the Murdoch media...you're a denier.

For most everyone else:

https://www.theage.com.au/environment/environmental-study-gives-desal-plant-green-light-20080820-3ywm.html

Mike.
So if I install a 20,000 litre rainwater tank on my house in addition to the existing 20,000 litre tank it makes no difference whatsoever to my water supply? That's pretty much what you're arguing.

When you have extremely heavy rainfall events as they've had on the eastern seaboard recently then you have the capacity to store that water for later use. Carbon-free, no intensive electricity use required. There's no way you can favorable compare ridiculously expensive desalination to simple dam storage - desalination is always worse for the environment.

Stick to being outraged by long dead train services, Mike - it's what you're good at.

Feel free to ridicule me if you wish....it's what you resort to when you scrape the bottom of your barrel.

The 'eastern seaboard' is around 500Km EAST of Melbourne... The rivers don't run east-west and there's the little matter of the Australian Alps between the seaboard and Melbourne.

Also feel free to acquire your 20,000 litre rainwater tank and we will all be convinced that from afar, we will no longer need the desal plant because some geezer in SA has installed a 20,000 litre rainwater tank to 'save us'...

M.
The Vinelander
Well what you're trying to argue is clearly ridiculous - that extra storage will not make any difference for times in which there's rain. It's like saying the construction of the Thomson had no effect on Melbourne's long term water viability.

When we have rainfall events in this country they're often on the scale that they've seen along the eastern seaboard; the trick is in being able to capture as much as you can.

I keep asking the question but none of you seem to want to answer it: Why are more dams a LESS preferable option than making potable water in one of the most expensive and energy-intensive ways possible?
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
Thank you for providing a link to (1) vindicate my claim that Gore was referencing others initially, (2) he never said 'will' but said 'could' or 'may well', (3) still shifts goalposts less than you when your predictions inevitably turn pear shaped.
Ah, so Gore made the all-important qualification of 'could' or 'may well'. That makes all the difference then doesn't it. Where have MY predictions 'inevitably turned pear-shaped'?

Thanks for the insult too; I expected nothing less. What a man.
Thanks for the earlier insult saying "...yet you still cum in your pants over it". I actually don't have to say anything, you regularly show us what a piece of foul-mouthed gutter trash you really are.
don_dunstan
Yes, it makes all the difference. The fact that you are now admitting that in your mind, 'could' means 'will' shows just how deficient your thought processes are.

Predictions? Grass yurts for one. Actually, how about you re-present your 2020 predictions thread and score yourself? Go on, it'll be fun!

Earlier insult, well, if you call it that then bully for you. I didn't swear, unlike you I didn't call you names, unlike you I didn't suggest that you were incapable of basic tasks, but you get upset at banter. Now go and change! Laughing
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
As the representative from SA is so adept at being a superior and obviously more intelligent human being, extra dams are fine...assuming there's rain to fill them and that's where your climate change denial argument falls flat on its face.

It actually has to rain in significant quantities for the dams to work.
Moreover, as Melbourne is growing so exponentially the desal plant is a necessary insurance policy against the inevitable future droughts.

Oh, and you cannot have your cake and eat it too. Either you're a denier, or you're a believer. You can't be both. My bet, as you've been brainwashed by the Murdoch media...you're a denier.

For most everyone else:

https://www.theage.com.au/environment/environmental-study-gives-desal-plant-green-light-20080820-3ywm.html

Mike.
So if I install a 20,000 litre rainwater tank on my house in addition to the existing 20,000 litre tank it makes no difference whatsoever to my water supply? That's pretty much what you're arguing.

When you have extremely heavy rainfall events as they've had on the eastern seaboard recently then you have the capacity to store that water for later use. Carbon-free, no intensive electricity use required. There's no way you can favorable compare ridiculously expensive desalination to simple dam storage - desalination is always worse for the environment.

Stick to being outraged by long dead train services, Mike - it's what you're good at.

Feel free to ridicule me if you wish....it's what you resort to when you scrape the bottom of your barrel.

The 'eastern seaboard' is around 500Km EAST of Melbourne... The rivers don't run east-west and there's the little matter of the Australian Alps between the seaboard and Melbourne.

Also feel free to acquire your 20,000 litre rainwater tank and we will all be convinced that from afar, we will no longer need the desal plant because some geezer in SA has installed a 20,000 litre rainwater tank to 'save us'...

M.
Well what you're trying to argue is clearly ridiculous - that extra storage will not make any difference for times in which there's rain. It's like saying the construction of the Thomson had no effect on Melbourne's long term water viability.

When we have rainfall events in this country they're often on the scale that they've seen along the eastern seaboard; the trick is in being able to capture as much as you can.

I keep asking the question but none of you seem to want to answer it: Why are more dams a LESS preferable option than making potable water in one of the most expensive and energy-intensive ways possible?
don_dunstan
Because there is zero guarantee that they will be able to supply water at any given time. Obviously!

Ten empty dams can only provide as much water as one empty dam.

Come on, make a prediction: Will we ever see a drought again that seriously affects the eastern states capital city water storage levels that does not require the intervention of desal plants?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
There are a few issues in just building more dams and I'm not referring to Env issues.

1) If the dams are not close, the cost of pumping the water rises and at around 150 - 250 km depending on what you read, location and terrain, can be less than running a desal plant which is basically built in the city and can discharge into any near by mains of suitable size.

2) Dam's built to provide a "buffer" against drought are themselves in the same drought and loosing water due to evaporation (typically 1.5 - 1.8m pa depending on location plus seepage so a prolonged drought period puts you back to square one.

3) The dam's are very high capital cost that will take many decades to achieve any cost recovery, meanwhile valuable farming and/or residential land is lost for a once in a 50 year drought, basically very inefficient use of land. As an insurance policy for water supply, these drought busting dams can be a very expensive insurance policy.  

Where as a desal plant has a very small foot print, can be built in an existing industrial area and low upfront capital cost, limiting much of the energy and operating cost per litre to when the actual litre is needed and the water can be pumped directly into the local reticulation network eliminating long distance pumping costs.

Desal plants can be incrementally upgraded in small steps as needed thus preventing wasted capital.

Desal plants, like Sydney's which can supply 10% of the city's demand means that even in a absolute worst possible drought scenario where the main dams are empty, people will still have water to survive.  

Actual cost of water from desal plants has dropped significantly in the last two decades, now down to about USD$1 /m3, about 40% of the cost of water in Sydney ($2.35/m3). In comparison, Dubai's water costs, 100% desal using MEF (boiling using water under a vacuum using waste heat from gas turbines) is around $3.10/m3 (there is no subsidy).


EDIT: its difficult to find actual long distance water pumping costs, but from the famous 500km long 100 year old pipeline in WA. I'll say a ball park figure for pumping water is around $1.44 / 100km.
Note: the Kalgoolie pipeline has about +400m of head from start to finish and another 400m of friction losses to over come. Potentially pumping water that has an overall flat terrain or downhill would be cheaper.

While it costs the Water Corporation $14.38 for every kilolitre of water supplied to Kalgoorlie-Boulder, the majority of residential customers in Kalgoorlie-Boulder receive water for around $10 less per kilolitre than the cost of supply.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Yes, it makes all the difference. The fact that you are now admitting that in your mind, 'could' means 'will' shows just how deficient your thought processes are.
DirtyBallast
No its weasel words from Al Gore - at least Flannery has stood by his failed prediction regarding Perth saying it needed more time to come true.
Predictions? Grass yurts for one. Actually, how about you re-present your 2020 predictions thread and score yourself? Go on, it'll be fun!
DirtyBallast
Nothing with you is ever 'fun'.
Earlier insult, well, if you call it that then bully for you. I didn't swear, unlike you I didn't call you names, unlike you I didn't suggest that you were incapable of basic tasks, but you get upset at banter. Now go and change!
DirtyBallast
No but you resorted to the very lowest common sexual denominator to get the attention you so desperately crave. I'm astonished nobody has asked for this thread to be shut down because of it - it's what usually happens.

And in fact you do appear incapable of basic research on the internet, you're constantly asking for links and you seem to never actually look into things off your own bat (unlike people like Wobert or RTT_Rules who indeed seem to have mastered the art of Googling contradictory evidence).
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Talk about giving Don a stick to beat you with! We might as well start deconstructing dams, just leave one. After all, hundreds of empty dams only supply as much water as one empty dam!
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Because there is zero guarantee that they will be able to supply water at any given time. Obviously!

Ten empty dams can only provide as much water as one empty dam.

Come on, make a prediction: Will we ever see a drought again that seriously affects the eastern states capital city water storage levels that does not require the intervention of desal plants?
DirtyBallast
So do you think they'll need to switch on the desal plant in Sydney any time soon? If they'd had the capacity to store the extra water being spilled into the Nepean River they might possibly have never need to switch it on ever again. Wouldn't that be wonderful? Sydney need never consume electricity from coal fired power plants again (where 80% of their power comes from) in order to turn on a tap.

How am I supposed to predict when they'll actually turn on their desal plants? They didn't need to switch on Wonthaggi for the last few summers but they did it anyway, probably because the terms of their 'take or pay' contract with Aquasure means they're already bought it regardless of how full the reservoirs are.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Talk about giving Don a stick to beat you with! We might as well start deconstructing dams, just leave one. After all, hundreds of empty dams only supply as much water as one empty dam!
billybaxter
What he meant was 'if it's empty then its useless, doesn't matter how many we have'. But I wouldn't expect subtle analogies to be your strong point.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Change your jocks Don

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