Aussie politics thread (2)

 
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
Range anxiety of electric cars is rapidly vanishing,
Just checking carsales.com.au, For $40k I can buy a 2018 Nissan Leaf with a 250km range. No thanks. For $22k I can buy a similar age (petrol powered) Toyota Corolla that will take me ~800km on a tank.

I'm not interested in buying new, you take a huge depreciation hit when you drive the vehicle of the car lot.
Which is all fair enough.

Can I ask the question, if a 4 year old Leaf had 800 km of range and the price was still the same, would it change your choice?
RTT_Rules
Probably not, but NOT because it is an EV, it would be because it's a Nissan. Wink

Sponsored advertisement

  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Range anxiety of electric cars is rapidly vanishing,
Just checking carsales.com.au, For $40k I can buy a 2018 Nissan Leaf with a 250km range. No thanks. For $22k I can buy a similar age (petrol powered) Toyota Corolla that will take me ~800km on a tank.

I'm not interested in buying new, you take a huge depreciation hit when you drive the vehicle of the car lot.
Graham4405

That's the snapshot right now Graham. E car technology is moving so quickly, you may not embrace it, but your kids (not knowing your age), or their kids will definitely do so.
Also $70.00 for a full tank compares to a couple of bucks for a full charge.

I'd consider an E car if my existing one self implodes in the next few years...or else, once I've retired in a few short years, I'm not going to blow my super on a new car, petrol or otherwise so I'd go back to my classic Chrysler for the occasions I cannot get where I want to go by PT or on my bike.

However I realise out in Dalby, you don't have the luxury of these kinds of choices.

I don't buy second hand cars. I buy new and unique...keep for, at this stage currently 17 years and counting so it's basically worthless as a trade-in whilst being a modern day classic... a sweet spot in my case.

Graham and Shane, you both have valid points in your comments and I'm not going to say you are wrong. Everyone's situation is different. I won't buy second hand, I will never own a ute. My situation is different to yours.

What I will say though is the representative from SA is completely bonkers and each comment from that person simply reinforces the idiocy of the loony right.

Mike.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
We are NOT at that point in Australia. Perth and Adelaide don't have large potential catchment areas like Sydney and Melbourne with the great dividing range - and the water from Wonthaggi gets pumped to Cardinia anyway.

You go halfway towards agreeing with me and then you swing back to your ignorant argument that 'desal is always better'. Shame.
There is no such thing as running something on "100% 'green' energy", that thing is simply a figment of the power companies and their marketing campaigns. You know as well as I do that on a typical day no less than 85% of Australia's energy needs are being met by fossil fuels. I once had that argument with someone who didn't actually understand the concept of how a grid operates and genuinely thought the lights in his house were exclusively being operated by windmills and panels. After hundreds of billions and 20 years 'renewables' still offer only a tiny portion of Australia's total electricity needs and even then they only operate when they feel like it - not when the grid (or the desalination plants) needs it (ie reliably).

And you're a hypocrite - a screaming fan-boy of electric cars but then not the least bit concerned about the greenhouse gas emissions that come from desal water.
One fact shines though out of all your ignorance - yes - that's exactly what happened. And it happened because the corrupt National Party (federally) with the cooperation of a succession of couldn't-care-less Premiers in NSW and QLD allowed huge dams like the majority-Chinese owned Cubby Station in QLD - they lift 460,000 megalitres from the Darling every year  but they're not the only ones. The other problem we face in trying to get proper flows into the Darling is the privatisation of water licenses so that anyone could buy them (not just adjacent land holders) so they got financialised and expensive.

Everything about QLD and NSW and their attitude to the rest of the nation that depends on that water stinks, they don't care about policing those licenses because they're not the ones who are affected.
None of this is any justification for a coal-consuming, carbon emitting monster like a desal plant. None of it. Desal plants shouldn't get governments off the hook for allowing Melbourne (for example) to explode to 4.5 million or so WITHOUT thinking about the possibility that those residents were going to need twice the amount of water as Melbourne did in 1983 (when the Thompson dam was finished) - the fact that the VIC government went with desal on that scale is still rank negligence and terribly bad financial management on behalf of both Bracks and the Commonwealth government that forced that situation on them to begin with by allowing mass migration to triple without adequately funding the states.

The paper bag is wet and yet you still can't punch your way out of it, greenie-man...
don_dunstan

Another day, more Don crap

SA's lack of relevance on the National economy is why no one gived a $hit and just treated the Murry as a bottomless pit.

When have I ever promoted EV based on CO2 emissions?

Fossil Fuels are 74% of total grid supply and dropping, not >85%.

One more time for the dummies. If I pull 100MW from a 24,000 MW grid and build say 300 MW of wind  power with 33% capacity factor feeding into same grid, then I have provided a 100% RE off-set. Why is this basic level of maths so hard to understand?   I feel for that guy as talking to you about this is like talking to a brick wall.

I never said desal is always better, I said that the options not to use desal are rapidly declining and in most areas likely closed.

While you are talking about covering open drains which is important for its own reasons, the rest of us a talking city sized water demand so please keep up as the water demand between the two are black and white.

What's this BS "off the hook comment"? The desal plant was a practical globally used solution to manage Melbourne's population growth water needs.

I also find it ironic that you talk down a solution that has worked perfectly well keeping Adelaide from drying up. And of looking, Adelaide has some of the cheapest water in the country https://www.teampoly.com.au/2018/06/15/water-prices-in-australia/ unlike Brisbane which has some of the highest water costs despite not having a desal plant. So I suppose once again Don's generic comments on desal water costs which you clearly know nothing about is again blown out of the pond.

Twice the water demand, so that means once again the world is waiting for Don to nominate these magical damable locations (to double Melbourne's water supply), rather than crap on about everything else hiding the fact he has been caught out.  Ahh, maybe Don read the ANU's report (cough work of fiction) saying Australia has endless pumped hydro locations.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Twice the water demand, so that means once again the world is waiting for Don to nominate these magical damable locations (to double Melbourne's water supply), rather than crap on about everything else hiding the fact he has been caught out.  Ahh, maybe Don read the ANU's report (cough work of fiction) saying Australia has endless pumped hydro locations.
RTT_Rules
I have made two attempts to get Don to nominate the catchment areas that he claims are available for Melbourne. So far he hasn't done it. His first reply was pure parliament - a two paragraph dissertation which had no relevance to my question. I think we can safely assume that he doesn't know of any of these potential catchment areas ( that is assuming that he knows what a catchment area actually is).
Then  "endless pumped hydro locations". Unless we have catchment-fed dams, you can build all the pumped hydro locations you like, but there won't be anything to put in them.

We have not been in drought conditions, and a look at the levels of the major Melbourne catchment-fed dams is worthwhile.
Thomson: 70.2%.
Upper Yarra: 49.5%.
Maroondah: 57.9%.
Silvan: 87.2%.
In other words, there’s not a lot of water to put into “endless pumped hydro locations” (aka storage reservoirs). If we have another drought, which is almost inevitable in the next few years judging by history, the existing storage reservoirs will be depleted and there will be little or no catchment occurring to top them up; there's nowhere to build another catchment-fed dam close enough to Melbourne.

The desal plant enters from stage left.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
We have not been in drought conditions, and a look at the levels of the major Melbourne catchment-fed dams is worthwhile.
Thomson: 70.2%.
Upper Yarra: 49.5%.
Maroondah: 57.9%.
Silvan: 87.2%.
In other words, there’s not a lot of water to put into “endless pumped hydro locations” (aka storage reservoirs).

The desal plant enters from stage left.
Valvegear
Minor correction @Valv.

Thomson Reservoir is not in the Melbourne catchment. The water is tunneled to the Upper Yarra, thru Mt Baw Baw
It's  what @RTT has been saying, Melbourne needs more water than the Yarra can provide.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Thomson Reservoir is not in the Melbourne catchment. The water is tunneled thru to the Upper Yarra.
"justarider"
Quite correct, but this, of course, is a matter of definition. If you check the Melbourne Water website, you will find that Thomson forms part of the Melbourne Water supply system. Its location was determined by a lack of anywhere else because, as you say, Melbourne needed more water than the Yarra ( or any other stream) could provide. Thomson's stated purpose when it was conceived and built  was to drought-proof Melbourne. The Thomson catchment serves Melbourne regardless of its geography and it is included for that reason.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I have made two attempts to get Don to nominate the catchment areas that he claims are available for Melbourne. So far he hasn't done it. His first reply was pure parliament - a two paragraph dissertation which had no relevance to my question. I think we can safely assume that he doesn't know of any of these potential catchment areas ( that is assuming that he knows what a catchment area actually is).
Then  "endless pumped hydro locations". Unless we have catchment-fed dams, you can build all the pumped hydro locations you like, but there won't be anything to put in them.

We have not been in drought conditions, and a look at the levels of the major Melbourne catchment-fed dams is worthwhile.
Thomson: 70.2%.
Upper Yarra: 49.5%.
Maroondah: 57.9%.
Silvan: 87.2%.
In other words, there’s not a lot of water to put into “endless pumped hydro locations” (aka storage reservoirs). If we have another drought, which is almost inevitable in the next few years judging by history, the existing storage reservoirs will be depleted and there will be little or no catchment occurring to top them up; there's nowhere to build another catchment-fed dam close enough to Melbourne.

The desal plant enters from stage left.
Valvegear
You're not arguing in good faith - you only want the answer to be 'desalinated water'. I've made a really good suggestion regarding a localised Victorian water grid which you yourself earlier agreed with but then you're subsequently changed your mind because you sincerely believe expensive and environmentally destructive desalinated water is the only option for Victoria - brainwashed by the Labor Party into going for the most expensive and carbon-intensive model.

Your argument that building more storage is pointless is completely wrong and you know it - surviving any drought is all about having adequate resources and saving water from times of extreme rain events as they've just had in NSW and QLD (although that wasn't supposed to happen according to the climate change nay-sayers). Stating that we shouldn't bother saving that water is just rubbish and you know it.

Labor is actively blocking any research into new sites for reservoirs and won't consider any new sites for any dams in Victoria because as Minister Lisa Neville put it - "we have the desalination plant now". Labor spelt it out quite clearly in 2019 that they wouldn't consider any new water storages across the state because of the need to keep the desalination plant economical. From an article in the Australian 24/9/19:

In 2006, the then Labor state government rejected a dam for the Maribyrnong River, proposed by the Liberal Party and estimated to cost $80m. Ms Neville’s spokeswoman said it would have yielded about 25 gigalitres, whereas the desalinat­ion plant could provide up to 150GL independent of rainfall.

The Australian has calculated that, on this basis, the cost of the Maribyrnong Dam would have been $3.2m/GL of water yielded, whereas the cost of the desalination plant is $23m/GL.

Ms Neville said: “New dams do not create any new water. They simply take it from somewhere else: either from farmers who currently rely on it or from the environment.

“Given there are no viable new dam options in Victoria, we’d be very happy to see any new federal funding going towards augmenting our desalination plant, to increase the yearly production capacity from 150GL to 200GL.”

So any proposal for any new dam sites - the Werribee and Marybrynong rivers for example - will not be considered by Labor because they only want to make expensive carbon-spewing water at Wonthaggi from now on.

Hang your head in shame for supporting the most carbon-intensive, most environmentally-damaging and most expensive option over all the other sensible, tried-and-true methods of saving water.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Another day, more Don crap
RTT_Rules
You're losing this argument big-time and that's the best you've got?
SA's lack of relevance on the National economy is why no one gived a $hit and just treated the Murry as a bottomless pit.
RTT_Rules
Just go away you ignorant, selfish man. Stick to commenting about your bigoted, revolting country that you live in and stop coming here to give your two cents on a country you turned your back on.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I also find it ironic that you talk down a solution that has worked perfectly well keeping Adelaide from drying up. And of looking, Adelaide has some of the cheapest water in the country https://www.teampoly.com.au/2018/06/15/water-prices-in-australia/ unlike Brisbane which has some of the highest water costs despite not having a desal plant. So I suppose once again Don's generic comments on desal water costs which you clearly know nothing about is again blown out of the pond.
RTT_Rules
Our desalination plant was providing two percent of Adelaide's needs. How is that 'preventing Adelaide from drying up'?

"But they do it in Dubai so it must be good".
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm just gob-smacked that anyone who claims to be 'green' in any way and supports reducing our footprint on the environment could possibly support a manifestly expensive, carbon-spewing desalination plant as opposed to simply keeping water that flows from the environment into reservoirs - an almost carbon-neutral exercise.

Desal relies on black and brown coal to keep it going - that's the reality. If I go to the NEM website right now it will tell me that on 6/4/21 @ 11:45am (eastern time);

74% of Australia's electricity task is being provided by black and brown coal
Gas is providing 2%
Hydro is providing 6%
Solar and wind are providing an unusually high 17% of our electricity across the eastern seaboard.

By sheer necessity black and brown coal will be providing most of the electricity needed for desalination. After hundreds of billions and 20 years of investment, solar and wind still only provide around 15% of Australia's electricity and during 'wind droughts' and at night this can fall to as low as a few percent necessitating diesel and gas 'peaking' generation having to kick in. How do you operate something on an industrial scale that needs a reliable supply of electricity like a desalination plant on those sources of energy? Short answer is you can't.

There is no situation in which Victoria's desalination plant (for example) is consuming 'all' or 'mostly' wind or solar electricity - it simply can't happen that way because of the extremely unreliable nature of those power sources.

Fossil Fuels are 74% of total grid supply and dropping, not >85%. One more time for the dummies. If I pull 100MW from a 24,000 MW grid and build say 300 MW of wind power with 33% capacity factor feeding into same grid, then I have provided a 100% RE off-set. Why is this basic level of maths so hard to understand? I feel for that guy as talking to you about this is like talking to a brick wall.
RTT_Rules
CAPACITY and ACTUAL POWER PROVIDED are two different things. Why is this so hard for you to understand? When the wind doesn't blow the power has to come from somewhere - and it's generally not a 'green' source of electricity.

But I'm wasting my time explaining this to you because you'll just either deny, obfuscate or change the goal-posts as you do every single time.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
You're not arguing in good faith - you only want the answer to be 'desalinated water'. I've made a really good suggestion regarding a localised Victorian water grid which you yourself earlier agreed with but then you're subsequently changed your mind because you sincerely believe expensive and environmentally destructive desalinated water is the only option for Victoria - brainwashed by the Labor Party into going for the most expensive and carbon-intensive model.
"don_dunstan"
 Because I agree with you that a water grid is desirable does not mean that I agree with everything else that you say. When you answer my question about your locations for extra catchments, which I am now asking for the third time, I might take a bit more serious notice.  I want the answer to be desalination not because of some ideology, but because its logical. Start at the starting point. The fundamental question which you continue to ignore, is where are you going to source the water for your grid. . . keep on ignoring that question and everything else you postulate is irrelevant. It won't work without water.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
You're not arguing in good faith - you only want the answer to be 'desalinated water'. I've made a really good suggestion regarding a localised Victorian water grid which you yourself earlier agreed with but then you're subsequently changed your mind because you sincerely believe expensive and environmentally destructive desalinated water is the only option for Victoria - brainwashed by the Labor Party into going for the most expensive and carbon-intensive model.
 Because I agree with you that a water grid is desirable does not mean that I agree with everything else that you say. When you answer my question about your locations for extra catchments, which I am now asking for the third time, I might take a bit more serious notice.  I want the answer to be desalination not because of some ideology, but because its logical. Start at the starting point. The fundamental question which you continue to ignore, is where are you going to source the water for your grid. . . keep on ignoring that question and everything else you postulate is irrelevant. It won't work without water.
Valvegear
Again, you just want to agree with your heroes in the Labor Party that spending billions on expensive, carbon-intensive desalinated water is the answer. You've gone with the party political line rather than the common-sense line - and I understand why you've done that but it doesn't excuse the fact that its the wrong way.

I've given you two acceptable location that could be reservoir sites - the Werribee and the Marybrynong. The former was actually scoped for an inexpensive reservoir as I pointed out in my last post - the cost of that water would have been a fraction of that of desalinated water - but again, you've sided with Bracks/Brumby/Andrews and their appallingly bad decision to build a water factory.

Fair enough.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
What I will say though is the representative from SA is completely bonkers and each comment from that person simply reinforces the idiocy of the loony right.

Mike.
The Vinelander
LOL this from someone with an imaginary partner.

What's his name, Mike - "George Glass"?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Again, you just want to agree with your heroes in the Labor Party that spending billions on expensive, carbon-intensive desalinated water is the answer. You've gone with the party political line rather than the common-sense line - and I understand why you've done that but it doesn't excuse the fact that its the wrong way.

I've given you two acceptable location that could be reservoir sites - the Werribee and the Marybrynong. The former was actually scoped for an inexpensive reservoir as I pointed out in my last post - the cost of that water would have been a fraction of that of desalinated water - but again, you've sided with Bracks/Brumby/Andrews and their appallingly bad decision to build a water factory.
"don_dunstan"
Don; could you please stop preaching irrelevant political propaganda and get to the point.
You know perfectly well that is the only time you have mentioned any river for damming, and you have still not told us where the catchments will be.  You have not given any locations, let alone “acceptable” ones.

Will your Werribee River dam be upstream or downstream of the existing Melton Reservoir?  And the Maribyrnong?  The Maribyrnong River is a regulated system, relying on a combination of releases from the Rosslynne Reservoir and natural catchment flows to supply water for irrigation demands.

It’s difficult to see where you’re going to get any more from those two streams. Whoever dreamed up those ideas had little or no idea. They’re the same rivers that already have reservoirs on them. You can’t harvest the same inflow twice and somehow turn that into more water.

The bottom line remains; you have no concrete suggestions about where any extra water will come from therefore, all of your other pontifications pale into insignificance. Without a reliable source of enough water, your grid, nice idea that it is, just won’t work.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Again, you just want to agree with your heroes in the Labor Party that spending billions on expensive, carbon-intensive desalinated water is the answer. You've gone with the party political line rather than the common-sense line - and I understand why you've done that but it doesn't excuse the fact that its the wrong way.

I've given you two acceptable location that could be reservoir sites - the Werribee and the Marybrynong. The former was actually scoped for an inexpensive reservoir as I pointed out in my last post - the cost of that water would have been a fraction of that of desalinated water - but again, you've sided with Bracks/Brumby/Andrews and their appallingly bad decision to build a water factory.
Don; could you please stop preaching irrelevant political propaganda and get to the point.
You know perfectly well that is the only time you have mentioned any river for damming, and you have still not told us where the catchments will be.  You have not given any locations, let alone “acceptable” ones.

Will your Werribee River dam be upstream or downstream of the existing Melton Reservoir?  And the Maribyrnong?  The Maribyrnong River is a regulated system, relying on a combination of releases from the Rosslynne Reservoir and natural catchment flows to supply water for irrigation demands.

It’s difficult to see where you’re going to get any more from those two streams. Whoever dreamed up those ideas had little or no idea. They’re the same rivers that already have reservoirs on them. You can’t harvest the same inflow twice and somehow turn that into more water.

The bottom line remains; you have no concrete suggestions about where any extra water will come from therefore, all of your other pontifications pale into insignificance. Without a reliable source of enough water, your grid, nice idea that it is, just won’t work.
Valvegear
I am not an expert in hydrology and yet you are demanding that I come up with a list of suitable sites for new reservoirs. Why is that my job? Where do I look for hydrology resources that will tell me the correct sites for new water storages when this has been explicitly embargoed by the Victorian government?

There's plenty of suitable sites out there but Lisa Neville has already said there will be no more reservoirs constructed in Victoria because of the need to keep the Aquasure consortium viable.

Have a look at this whitewash from the Victorian government prior to spending money on Wonthaggi (which was always the way they were going to go). It does clearly spell out the fact that desalinated water is far more expensive than any other option but they come up with lots of spurious reasons as to why no new reservoirs can be built. The Mitchell River (for example) is ripe for a reservoir but they won't consider it.

Why?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
I am not an expert in hydrology and yet you are demanding that I come up with a list of suitable sites for new reservoirs. Why is that my job?
don_dunstan
The reason is simple. You're the big mouth who claimed that there were plenty of available catchment sites in NSW and Victoria.  In your last post, you boasted that you'd put up two acceptable sites. Now, when that was shown to be wrong, you've  done a 180 degree turn and pleaded that it's not your field.
Once again, you've made a statement and, when challenged to back it up, discovered that you'd painted yourself into a corner. If you hunt the tiger, you must expect to get bitten.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Twice the water demand, so that means once again the world is waiting for Don to nominate these magical damable locations (to double Melbourne's water supply), rather than crap on about everything else hiding the fact he has been caught out.  Ahh, maybe Don read the ANU's report (cough work of fiction) saying Australia has endless pumped hydro locations.
I have made two attempts to get Don to nominate the catchment areas that he claims are available for Melbourne. So far he hasn't done it. His first reply was pure parliament - a two paragraph dissertation which had no relevance to my question. I think we can safely assume that he doesn't know of any of these potential catchment areas ( that is assuming that he knows what a catchment area actually is).
Then  "endless pumped hydro locations". Unless we have catchment-fed dams, you can build all the pumped hydro locations you like, but there won't be anything to put in them.

We have not been in drought conditions, and a look at the levels of the major Melbourne catchment-fed dams is worthwhile.
Thomson: 70.2%.
Upper Yarra: 49.5%.
Maroondah: 57.9%.
Silvan: 87.2%.
In other words, there’s not a lot of water to put into “endless pumped hydro locations” (aka storage reservoirs). If we have another drought, which is almost inevitable in the next few years judging by history, the existing storage reservoirs will be depleted and there will be little or no catchment occurring to top them up; there's nowhere to build another catchment-fed dam close enough to Melbourne.

The desal plant enters from stage left.
Valvegear
Last time Thomson was full was 1996.

But yes agree on all levels
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
You're not arguing in good faith - you only want the answer to be 'desalinated water'. I've made a really good suggestion regarding a localised Victorian water grid which you yourself earlier agreed with but then you're subsequently changed your mind because you sincerely believe expensive and environmentally destructive desalinated water is the only option for Victoria - brainwashed by the Labor Party into going for the most expensive and carbon-intensive model.

Your argument that building more storage is pointless is completely wrong and you know it - surviving any drought is all about having adequate resources and saving water from times of extreme rain events as they've just had in NSW and QLD (although that wasn't supposed to happen according to the climate change nay-sayers). Stating that we shouldn't bother saving that water is just rubbish and you know it.

Labor is actively blocking any research into new sites for reservoirs and won't consider any new sites for any dams in Victoria because as Minister Lisa Neville put it - "we have the desalination plant now". Labor spelt it out quite clearly in 2019 that they wouldn't consider any new water storages across the state because of the need to keep the desalination plant economical. From an article in the Australian 24/9/19:

In 2006, the then Labor state government rejected a dam for the Maribyrnong River, proposed by the Liberal Party and estimated to cost $80m. Ms Neville’s spokeswoman said it would have yielded about 25 gigalitres, whereas the desalinat­ion plant could provide up to 150GL independent of rainfall.

The Australian has calculated that, on this basis, the cost of the Maribyrnong Dam would have been $3.2m/GL of water yielded, whereas the cost of the desalination plant is $23m/GL.

Ms Neville said: “New dams do not create any new water. They simply take it from somewhere else: either from farmers who currently rely on it or from the environment.

“Given there are no viable new dam options in Victoria, we’d be very happy to see any new federal funding going towards augmenting our desalination plant, to increase the yearly production capacity from 150GL to 200GL.”

So any proposal for any new dam sites - the Werribee and Marybrynong rivers for example - will not be considered by Labor because they only want to make expensive carbon-spewing water at Wonthaggi from now on.

Hang your head in shame for supporting the most carbon-intensive, most environmentally-damaging and most expensive option over all the other sensible, tried-and-true methods of saving water.
don_dunstan
The desal plant was increased to 200GL prior to construction, done!

I know the welfare state (SA) cannot order lunch without first checking with Canberra to fund the drinks, but its not the feds job to fund water supply for Melbourne.

The Marribyonong River basin is heavily populated and/or with agriculture and industry, "The Maribyrnong River faces various environmental issues, apart from introduced pest species, also pollution and contamination – arsenic and heavy metals from industry and litter including one trap to mitigate litter entering the river from storm water". Such a perfect location for a dam, NOT!!!

As for the $80m price tag, hahaha.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
You're losing this argument big-time and that's the best you've got?
Just go away you ignorant, selfish man. Stick to commenting about your bigoted, revolting country that you live in and stop coming here to give your two cents on a country you turned your back on.
don_dunstan
Don,
You have made so many unfounded and mostly incorrect statements its not funny and now you state I'm loosing the argument, best of got, then you come back with the classic Don loosing response, making insulting and attacking commentary about me, the place I current live and work.

Don, you have just proved that one, you are not interested to learn about desal and why it was chosen and becoming the technology of choice globally for supplying water where other options are not practical and two your comments are nothing more than pathetic.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I also find it ironic that you talk down a solution that has worked perfectly well keeping Adelaide from drying up. And of looking, Adelaide has some of the cheapest water in the country https://www.teampoly.com.au/2018/06/15/water-prices-in-australia/ unlike Brisbane which has some of the highest water costs despite not having a desal plant. So I suppose once again Don's generic comments on desal water costs which you clearly know nothing about is again blown out of the pond.
Our desalination plant was providing two percent of Adelaide's needs. How is that 'preventing Adelaide from drying up'?

"But they do it in Dubai so it must be good".
don_dunstan
Its actually 5%, read the detail.

Still 5% over 10 years is 6mth of total supply, although it was run at much higher capacity over that time which makes it around 10% over 10 years.

It obviously works to keep your toilet flushing and water to drink for you, so I'd dare say not good, but a life saver.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
What I will say though is the representative from SA is completely bonkers and each comment from that person simply reinforces the idiocy of the loony right.

Mike.
LOL this from someone with an imaginary partner.

What's his name, Mike - "George Glass"?
don_dunstan
Don,
don't be an ar$ehole, this was completely uncalled for and none of your business.

Enjoy the rest of your day Don, maybe head outside for a bit to cool off, before hitting the keyboard.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
We should not be surprised that Don has resorted to a most base as hominem response. Weary of his own poor decisions when it comes to finance and romance, and having lived a life lacking in colour and variety, he lashes out at those he resents.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
LOL this from someone with an imaginary partner. What's his name, Mike - "George Glass"?
"don_dunstan"
Disgraceful.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
That's twice, you got away with it the first time Don .
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
What I will say though is the representative from SA is completely bonkers and each comment from that person simply reinforces the idiocy of the loony right.

Mike.
LOL this from someone with an imaginary partner.

What's his name, Mike - "George Glass"?
Don,
don't be an ar$ehole, this was completely uncalled for and none of your business.

Enjoy the rest of your day Don, maybe head outside for a bit to cool off, before hitting the keyboard.
RTT_Rules
Mike never, ever misses an opportunity to deride me, Shane - it goes back several years to my dislike of the current form of the Overland train and Mike's irrational insistence on keeping it going. You only have to go back on this board a few weeks to see his disdain for me in action. I fill Mike with such revulsion that he can't even bring himself to say my name any longer as if I'm Lord Voldemort or something.

Now I'm pretty selective with my personal life on this board because things like the car that I drive have been used against me - isn't that right, Shane? But if someone else puts a detail about their personal life on this board then like you do I remember what they've said. Many of us have been posting here for several years or longer (you and me both included) and I do have a talent for remembering what people have said about themselve.

Anyhow along comes Mike with this very low flying and tempting World War One Zeppelin story about his personal life - having to pick up his partner from Avalon - and he seriously expects me to not fire my primed and loaded ack-ack gun at it at least once?

C'mon.

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