Future of Canberra - Sydney service?

 
  act_railfan Station Master

Hi,

Does anyone know what realistic improvements will be made to the Canberra to Sydney service in the  next five years?  

Thanks

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  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Hi,

Does anyone know what realistic improvements will be made to the Canberra to Sydney service in the  next five years?  

Thanks
act_railfan

Will, or could?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Hi,

Does anyone know what realistic improvements will be made to the Canberra to Sydney service in the  next five years?  

Thanks

Will, or could?
djf01
Yes, it would have been nice to hear that with the new rolling stock Can- Syd will be increased to 6 services a day (every 2-3 hours) and provide a non-booking option.

Ultimately I think it should be two tiered service
> All stops - Macarthur to Moss Vale
> Express - Campbelltown to Moss Vale and then limited stops to Goulburn and all to Canberra about 3 x per day.
> Semi Express - As above but all stops Moss Vale to Canberra 3 x day
> 1-2 late service only runs as far as Goulburn and departs Goulburn  around 5 - 5:30
  ANR Chief Commissioner

What goes on in Canberra should stay in Canberra.

There should be no return service to Sydney.
  act_railfan Station Master

Anyone who works for NSW Trainlink have any inside knowledge?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Nothing will change aside from new trains. Until something is done with the track or more of the new trains are ordered then there isn't much that can be done to increase services.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Nothing will change aside from new trains. Until something is done with the track or more of the new trains are ordered then there isn't much that can be done to increase services.
simstrain
Which sections of track?

I cannot see why most of the services would not simply be in shoulder and off-peak with the only peak service in the lessor peak.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Most of it south of Macarthur. There is only going to be 3 services each way a day as there is now unless something is done to reduce travel time to much less then 4 hours.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Most of it south of Macarthur. There is only going to be 3 services each way a day as there is now unless something is done to reduce travel time to much less then 4 hours.
Yes and no
> Syd - Can - 320km by rail in about 4h 15min or 75km/h, new trains should be marginally faster, may come close to 4h mark.

> Syd - New - 160km takes 2h 35min by train = 65 km/h

The 3 services / day are not linked to demand, rather than number of services govt is willing to fund based on historic number of sets available. Remember for a while there was just two, I bet they were not longer.

South of Macarthur there is already what 4 or so trains to Goulburn only + Moss Vale. Convert at least 2 or 3 Goulburn to Canberra services, get rid of the booking system for anything but FC and 1 section or car of EC and make rest open.

No impact on Southern line, Canberra line can cope with a train every 2.5h without passing, closer with passing on the branch. And the services out of peak have no issue in finding a slot through to Central and if its a 4 or 6 train its justified.
  act_railfan Station Master

whats the likliehood of being able to use an Opal card on the Canberra service in the near future?
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

whats the likliehood of being able to use an Opal card on the Canberra service in the near future?
act_railfan

Marginally less than John Barilaro becoming NSW Premier.
  act_railfan Station Master

whats the likliehood of being able to use an Opal card on the Canberra service in the near future?

Marginally less than John Barilaro becoming NSW Premier
djf01

It's shame,  I have contacted NSW train link multiple times,  my local minister for transport  (ACT),   I even posted a hand written letter to Howard Collins asking for an update. ( no response)

Does anyone who works for NSW trains  or is in the loop,  know if they are seriously going to enable OPAL on the Canberra service?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner


It's shame,  I have contacted NSW train link multiple times,  my local minister for transport  (ACT),   I even posted a hand written letter to Howard Collins asking for an update. ( no response)

Does anyone who works for NSW trains  or is in the loop,  know if they are seriously going to enable OPAL on the Canberra service?
act_railfan

No because it is a nsw trainlink regional service with separate booking.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner


South of Macarthur there is already what 4 or so trains to Goulburn only + Moss Vale. Convert at least 2 or 3 Goulburn to Canberra services, get rid of the booking system for anything but FC and 1 section or car of EC and make rest open.

No impact on Southern line, Canberra line can cope with a train every 2.5h without passing, closer with passing on the branch. And the services out of peak have no issue in finding a slot through to Central and if its a 4 or 6 train its justified.
RTT_Rules

There is 1 SHL Goulburn service a day each way to/from Central at 7.34 am in the morning to central and 4pm in the evening to Goulburn. There are 3 service to Campbelltown only and one return at 6:47pm. Being capable of 160kmh might make it possible to trim 15 minutes off the travel time but I'm sure if the track was improved with some realignments and if the speed limit between Goulburn and Canberra could be increased that another 30 minutes or more could be removed.

I will agree that the Xplorer could make economy class payable by opal. I also think the 3 car regional CAF's should be expanded to 4 cars to accomodate this. If the CAF's prove to be able to make the trip faster then maybe an extra service could be extended to Goulburn or maybe Xplorer's could be repurposed to do Moss Vale to Goulburn trips.
  act_railfan Station Master


South of Macarthur there is already what 4 or so trains to Goulburn only + Moss Vale. Convert at least 2 or 3 Goulburn to Canberra services, get rid of the booking system for anything but FC and 1 section or car of EC and make rest open.

No impact on Southern line, Canberra line can cope with a train every 2.5h without passing, closer with passing on the branch. And the services out of peak have no issue in finding a slot through to Central and if its a 4 or 6 train its justified.
There is 1 SHL Goulburn service a day each way to/from Central at 7.34 am in the morning to central and 4pm in the evening to Goulburn. There are 3 service to Campbelltown only and one return at 6:47pm. Being capable of 160kmh might make it possible to trim 15 minutes off the travel time but I'm sure if the track was improved with some realignments and if the speed limit between Goulburn and Canberra could be increased that another 30 minutes or more could be removed.

I will agree that the Xplorer could make economy class payable by opal. I also think the 3 car regional CAF's should be expanded to 4 cars to accomodate this. If the CAF's prove to be able to make the trip faster then maybe an extra service could be extended to Goulburn or maybe Xplorer's could be repurposed to do Moss Vale to Goulburn trips.
simstrain
I was wondering what they are planning to do with the remaining Xplorer/Endeavour sets?
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I was wondering what they are planning to do with the remaining Xplorer/Endeavour sets?
act_railfan

They are going to become part of this project.

(As you can see, none of us really know anything Smile).
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Some endeavours are being kept on for hunter line services but aside from that I believe they will be going to scrap unless the Vic government wants them for extra SG services. They are after all pretty much just old vlocities and so they could be serviced where the SG vlo's are. The Xplorer's have buffet cars as well and are perfect for victorian regional operations on SG networks.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Some endeavours are being kept on for hunter line services but aside from that I believe they will be going to scrap unless the Vic government wants them for extra SG services.
simstrain
I expect we may see a few in heritage.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Is there really a need for better service? I can only see this as a question of image and pride, of having a decent rail service between the capital and the nations 2nd largest city. Driving is far quicker and more convenient from just about everywhere in the Sydney metropolitan area, flying is quicker and more prestigious, and even for those who have no choice but to use low cost Public Transport, Murray's provides an hourly service, centre to centre in three and a half hours for a few dollars more than the train. Why would tax-payers money be spent on improving this service and nothing else? If improvements are tributary of improvements to the Short South, then that's a different question, but the idea of diverting funds from other, more useful public transport projects is absurd. The idea of then integrating it into Opal, presumably to make it 'accessible', i.e. a massive money pit that will do nothing but encourage pensioners to joyride, is perverse.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Is there really a need for better service? I can only see this as a question of image and pride, of having a decent rail service between the capital and the nations 2nd largest city. Driving is far quicker and more convenient from just about everywhere in the Sydney metropolitan area, flying is quicker and more prestigious, and even for those who have no choice but to use low cost Public Transport, Murray's provides an hourly service, centre to centre in three and a half hours for a few dollars more than the train. Why would tax-payers money be spent on improving this service and nothing else? If improvements are tributary of improvements to the Short South, then that's a different question, but the idea of diverting funds from other, more useful public transport projects is absurd. The idea of then integrating it into Opal, presumably to make it 'accessible', i.e. a massive money pit that will do nothing but encourage pensioners to joyride, is perverse.
billybaxter

Sydney is still the largest city for now.

No one is talking about diverting money from other projects in Sydney as far as I know and fixing the main south would also have huge benefits in freight movement and so it wouldn't be a burden to the tax payer.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

South of Macarthur there is already what 4 or so trains to Goulburn only + Moss Vale. Convert at least 2 or 3 Goulburn to Canberra services, get rid of the booking system for anything but FC and 1 section or car of EC and make rest open.

No impact on Southern line, Canberra line can cope with a train every 2.5h without passing, closer with passing on the branch. And the services out of peak have no issue in finding a slot through to Central and if its a 4 or 6 train its justified.
There is 1 SHL Goulburn service a day each way to/from Central at 7.34 am in the morning to central and 4pm in the evening to Goulburn. There are 3 service to Campbelltown only and one return at 6:47pm. Being capable of 160kmh might make it possible to trim 15 minutes off the travel time but I'm sure if the track was improved with some realignments and if the speed limit between Goulburn and Canberra could be increased that another 30 minutes or more could be removed.

I will agree that the Xplorer could make economy class payable by opal. I also think the 3 car regional CAF's should be expanded to 4 cars to accomodate this. If the CAF's prove to be able to make the trip faster then maybe an extra service could be extended to Goulburn or maybe Xplorer's could be repurposed to do Moss Vale to Goulburn trips.
simstrain
7 services a day from Goulburn and Canberra, yet only 4 go to Central, 1 Goulburn as part of set servicing (I assume).

The insult for the 5:36 am ex Goulburn is that it arrives at Campbelltown (7:38), 1min after an express spark service to the city that doesn't go via the airport.

Only focusing on Central bound, but same applies for reverse (I'm applied some time saving for CAF), existing services, with proposed changes

Train 1) 05:36 ex Goulburn - Camp, I would depart a bit earlier and meet the express spark. (CAF trains may actually make this extra few minutes up while departing Goulburn at the same time.

Train 2) 07:34 ex Goulburn - Central, convert to Canberra depart around 6:00am, arriving Central around 10:00am

Train 3) 6:55 ex Canberra - Central, no change, Ex Goulburn 07:34, Central 10:45  (express)

Train 4) 11:55 ex Canberra - Central, no change, Ex Goulburn 13:22, Central 15:45 (express)

Train 5) Extra service, Ex Canberra around 2 pm.

Train 6) 17:08 ex Canberra - Central, no change, Ex Goulburn 18:35, Central 21:00 (express)

Train 7) 19:54 ex Goulburn - Camp, change to Can - Central, Depart Can 18:30, Central 23:00

Train 8) 21:21 ex Goulburn - Camp, Consider extending to Central, arrive 00:30

So overall,
- Only one extra train on the South Main, Goulburn - Macurthur
- Canberra gets 6 services a day, extra services are all on the Canberra branch
- Extension of former Goulburn to Campbelltown to central only occurs off-peak/shoulder/reverse peak.
- All Canberra/Goulburn trains are a 3 car CAF. If demand increases, then convert to 4 or 6 car sets.
- Services tagged express will be no stops MV - Campbelltown, limited stops Goulburn - MV, (maybe Picton?)
- Other services, Canberra all to MV, no stops MV to Campbelltown (Maybe Picton?)
- All seats OPAL apart from FC.

I didn't focus on duration too much, but assume that the CAF's will reduce the above timetable from 4h 10min to to 3h 45 - 50 min.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Sydney is only first if you include the central coast but don't include Geelong as part of Melbourne. I agree that money spent on the short south would have a variety of benefits and should be persued, but I feel that investments in rolling stock specifically for the Canberra branch, or line improvement on the branch, are a bit of a waste, at least of NSW money. Any money spent there should be about 90% from ACT. If they don't want to open the chequebook, then the current service is fine. Including it in Opal is a ridiculous idea. Big money pit and would encourage wasteful transport practice.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I didn't focus on duration too much, but assume that the CAF's will reduce the above timetable from 4h 10min to to 3h 45 - 50 min.
RTT_Rules

I've long been of the view that the Canberra branch could be operated by 3x2car DMUs rather the 2x3, offer 5 trains per day 3hrs apart rather than 3 trains a day 5 hours apart, with 3 crews of 2 rather than 2 crews of 4 or 5.  All Opal, but with FC seating on a first come first serve basis (or else an Opal reader on entrance to the FC car to keep out the riff-raff if you vote Liberal)

@RTT_Rules, the Canberra trains won't be faster if they have to stop at Tallong, Wingelo, Penrose, Exeter, Buradoo, Yerrinbool etc.  (But the stations should be "on-demand" - you need a smartphone app to organise the train to stop there)

The timetable I came up with is:

Cbr (6:00) - Syd(10:30) - Cbr(3:00p) - Syd(7:30p) - Cbr(0:00)
Cbr (9:00) - Syd(1:30) - Cbr(6:00p) - Syd(10:30p)
Syd(7:30) - Cbr(12:00) - Syd(4:30p) - Cbr(9:00p)

The mid-day Goulburn bus is served by rail.  The early AM Goulburn train becomes an express bus Goulburn,Marulan to Cambelltown (to maintain the fiction it's possible to commute to Sydney for a 9-5 work day), with a late PM return.

2 car DMUs (hybrid Endeavours & Explorers), 3 cars at Christmas and during Floriard.

If opalised, and train crews no more than 2, it would save money, provide a more frequent service, even though car kms are about the same as now.
  ssaunders Train Controller

Hi,

Does anyone know what realistic improvements will be made to the Canberra to Sydney service in the  next five years?  

Thanks

Will, or could?
Yes, it would have been nice to hear that with the new rolling stock Can- Syd will be increased to 6 services a day (every 2-3 hours) and provide a non-booking option.

Ultimately I think it should be two tiered service
> All stops - Macarthur to Moss Vale
> Express - Campbelltown to Moss Vale and then limited stops to Goulburn and all to Canberra about 3 x per day.
> Semi Express - As above but all stops Moss Vale to Canberra 3 x day
> 1-2 late service only runs as far as Goulburn and departs Goulburn  around 5 - 5:30
RTT_Rules

There are plenty of services Macarthur to Moss Vale, it should be Moss Vale to Goulburn that gets the stops as that section has very limited service.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The only thing I can see happening is that maybe one moss vale intercity service could be extended to Goulburn but what is more likely is that if the new trains can reduce the travel time by 15-30 minutes that there could be an extra Canberra service but that is not a guarantee.

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