Albury V/Line services after conversion?

 
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Just to upset @dangerdan707 maybe everything heading on the north east and to shepparton should be converted to SG. This way there isn't a single track SG line and it might promote more connections to older NSWGR lines in southern NSW that currently lie dormant.
@dangerdan707 won't be upset at all. Too convulsed with laughter, he's wet hisself.

Just take gman's brain fart thru to conclusion.

SG convert Toc. That means all the way up to SCS.
Just re-scoped the Shepparton upgrade.
Oops - Metro share to Craigieburn.  Gunna quad some tracks as well ??
Re-build the Albion loop to support frequent 2 way passenger.? Oops2 Airport rail need the corridor.

SG convert Deni. That means all the way to SCS.
Oops - Swan Hill as well.
Oops2 - Metro share to Sunbury. More quads.
Oops3 - Sunbury will be a run thru to Pakenham, via MM1. That multi $$bill project just got re-scoped, so did Airport  rail.
Oops4 - Pakenham keeps going to Bairnsdale. Yet more conversion.
ALL FOR A LINE THAT HAS NOT SEEN A TRAIN IN ONE YEAR.

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing
justarider

All I was referring to was the lines North of Seymour. And I did say it was all for nothing coz it wasn't going to happen.

I never said anything about South of Seymour, and I certainly didn't say anything as insane as touching the gauge of the Bendigo line. You did that, all on your own.

Pfft, brain fart.

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  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
@dangerdan707 won't be upset at all. Too convulsed with laughter, he's wet hisself.

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

All I was referring to was the lines North of Seymour. And I did say it was all for nothing coz it wasn't going to happen.

I never said anything about South of Seymour, and I certainly didn't say anything as insane as touching the gauge of the Bendigo line. You did that, all on your own.

Pfft, brain fart.
Gman_86
South of Seymour. Of course you did. Where do you think Toc and Shepparton trains go?

So you didnt say
"maybe you could just gauge convert the Toc and Deni lines at the same time,"

Where does the Deni line go again?  oh yeah, thru Bendigo.

Your absolutely right. It's not gunna happen.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Deniliquin - Echuca - Toolamba
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
So what we have here is a conversation about the Albury line post conversion, during which someone brought up the prospect of running a regular Sprinter service between Benalla and Yarrawonga, the question then was asked about where to build a maintenance facility for standard gauge Sprinters, I (among others) suggested a particular parcel of land in Seymour, which may or may not require a grade crossing of the current broad gauge line at Seymour for access, all of which then led me to suggesting the lines north of Seymour to Tocumwal and Deniliquin could be gauge converted in the process, all while also stating that I had no expectation any of this would actually happen.

I am sorry for not being clearer, that I in no way ever meant to upset your delicate sensibilities by failing to declare that my intent did not in any way include the unrelated line south of Seymour, where there is already a standard gauge line or the even more unrelated Bendigo line which until you brought it up, had not been mentioned in this entire thread.

Next time I will endeavour to be clearer to avoid such confusion.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Deniliquin - Echuca - Toolamba
kitchgp
And the last train was when?
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Deniliquin - Echuca - Toolamba
And the last train was when?
justarider
over 12 months ago, but since we are talking in purely theoretical terms, how is that relevant to anything?

The last passenger train to Yarrawonga was more than 40 years ago yet you seem content with that conversation.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
So what we have here is a conversation about the Albury line post conversion, during which someone brought up the prospect of running a regular Sprinter service between Benalla and Yarrawonga, the question then was asked about where to build a maintenance facility for standard gauge Sprinters, I (among others) suggested a particular parcel of land in Seymour, which may or may not require a grade crossing of the current broad gauge line at Seymour for access, all of which then led me to suggesting the lines north of Seymour could be gauge converted in the process, all while also stating that I had no expectation any of this would actually happen.

I am sorry for not being clearer that I in no way ever meant to upset your delicate sensibilities by failing to declare my intent did not in any way include the unrelated line south of Seymour, or the even more unrelated Bendigo line.

Next time I will endeavour to be clearer to avoid such confusion.
Gman_86
Fair enuff. I got a bit carried away.

So much foam about SG, without considering the effect of rebuilding a big chunk of the state for no benefit, yet huge cost.
Not you, gman. A rational voice amongst us dills.

As for Sprinters, there may still be some life in the old rattlers. Doubtful that could do as SG, but even if just send them to Melbourne for service. That's where the current fleet go.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Deniliquin - Echuca - Toolamba
And the last train was when?
over 12 months ago, but since we are talking in purely theoretical terms, how is that relevant to anything?

The last passenger train to Yarrawonga was more than 40 years ago yet you seem content with that conversation.
Gman_86
Not me. I think pax to Yarrawonga is daft, couldn't be bothered expessing either way on a dead end discussion.
And the last Yarrawong train I heard was a couple of weeks ago. It is active, Toolaamba is not.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Just take gman's brain fart thru to conclusion.

SG convert Toc. That means all the way up to SCS.
Just re-scoped the Shepparton upgrade.
Oops - Metro share to Craigieburn.  Gunna quad some tracks as well ??
Re-build the Albion loop to support frequent 2 way passenger.? Oops2 Airport rail need the corridor.

SG convert Deni. That means all the way to SCS.
Oops - Swan Hill as well.
Oops2 - Metro share to Sunbury. More quads.
Oops3 - Sunbury will be a run thru to Pakenham, via MM1. That multi $$bill project just got re-scoped, so did Airport  rail.
Oops4 - Pakenham keeps going to Bairnsdale. Yet more conversion.
ALL FOR A LINE THAT HAS NOT SEEN A TRAIN IN ONE YEAR.

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing
justarider

Not all the way to SCS at all and certainly not going via bendigo. Like Gman I suggested to convert just north of Seymour to Shepparton and Tocumwal with a possible connection to Narrenderra or Griffith.

I will ask but is it possible for the Toolamba to Echucha line to be converted to allow the line to Deniliquin and Moulamein to be converted.

As for converting NSW to BG do you have rocks in your head or something Djebel?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

South of Seymour. Of course you did. Where do you think Toc and Shepparton trains go?

So you didnt say
"maybe you could just gauge convert the Toc and Deni lines at the same time,"

Where does the Deni line go again?  oh yeah, thru Bendigo.

Your absolutely right. It's not gunna happen.
justarider

There is already SG south of Seymour as well. If Tolamba to Echucha can be converted to SG then trains from Deni wont need to go through Bendigo.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
South of Seymour. Of course you did. Where do you think Toc and Shepparton trains go?

So you didnt say
"maybe you could just gauge convert the Toc and Deni lines at the same time,"

Where does the Deni line go again?  oh yeah, thru Bendigo.

Your absolutely right. It's not gunna happen.

There is already SG south of Seymour as well. If Tolamba to Echucha can be converted to SG then trains from Deni wont need to go through Bendigo.
simstrain
Just luv how Sydney siders know what's best south of the border.

Sure there is already a SINGLE SG line south of Seymour.
It is already getting chockers even before Inland Rail.
ARTC aren't big fans of Vline pax on their track - you want to double it?.

Leaving Seymour on it's lonesome, with 2 dedicated BG tracks.
The disparity could not be sustained, 3 SG lines instead would be irresistible. Doesn't sound bad until you hit the Metro.
More solutions needed:
Via Albion Loop gives Airport / Sunshine / RRL contention OR convert the Metro ( SG or DG both horrendous).
All up a really big re-build of the network, to achieve what exactly?

Yes you could also convert Toolamba to SG. Probably more like a re-build. That idea worked so well at Maryborough, NOT.
To achieve what ?

cheers
John
  Jordy33 Locomotive Fireman

Making a double SG track between Craigieburn and Seymour should really go ahead.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Making a double SG track between Craigieburn and Seymour should really go ahead.
Jordy33
Inexplicably Inland Rail does not think that is needed.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
South of Seymour. Of course you did. Where do you think Toc and Shepparton trains go?

So you didnt say
"maybe you could just gauge convert the Toc and Deni lines at the same time,"

Where does the Deni line go again?  oh yeah, thru Bendigo.

Your absolutely right. It's not gunna happen.

There is already SG south of Seymour as well. If Tolamba to Echucha can be converted to SG then trains from Deni wont need to go through Bendigo.
simstrain

If I can spell Woollooloomooloo...you should be able to cope with Echuca and Toolamba.

M.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Just luv how Sydney siders know what's best south of the border.
justarider

Well you guys don't seem to know whats best.

My real thoughts are that everything north of Seymour should be converted to SG and dual tracked at the very least. Possibly even everything north of Craigieburn which is the limit of the Melbourne Metro. Basically if it isn't Metro and it is heading north it should be SG.

At broadmeadows there would be a redesign of tracks and platforms here to allow dual track SG. With the airport rail being built besides the existing line from Albion that will free up that section of track to be completely converted to SG with no need for any DG.

If that old track at Toolamba needs rebuilding and is unused by BG trains then there is no harm in rebuilding it to SG so that everything north of echuca can then get converted to SG finally removing BG from the state of NSW. Then these lines can connect even further north connecting to the existing NSWGR lines.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I still remember the plan to convert all of Victoria to SG in one plan and fast including the metro network.  Cost was just on $1b all up including the rollingstock conversions.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Just luv how Sydney siders know what's best south of the border.

Well you guys don't seem to know whats best.

My real thoughts are that everything north of Seymour should be converted to SG and dual tracked at the very least. Possibly even everything north of Craigieburn which is the limit of the Melbourne Metro. Basically if it isn't Metro and it is heading north it should be SG.

At broadmeadows there would be a redesign of tracks and platforms here to allow dual track SG. With the airport rail being built besides the existing line from Albion that will free up that section of track to be completely converted to SG with no need for any DG.

If that old track at Toolamba needs rebuilding and is unused by BG trains then there is no harm in rebuilding it to SG so that everything north of echuca can then get converted to SG finally removing BG from the state of NSW. Then these lines can connect even further north connecting to the existing NSWGR lines.
simstrain
A good start would be double track SG from Craigieburn to Tottenham, without stuffing up the Metro. It is a huge ask.

When ARTC and Inland Rail finally get their act together in 20+ years, then we can resume this discussion for Shepparton/Toc/Deni.

In the meantime there is nothing stopping NSWGR building tracks north bound from Deni, except of course a favourable business case.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I still remember the plan to convert all of Victoria to SG in one plan and fast including the metro network.  Cost was just on $1b all up including the rollingstock conversions.
bevans

Why is this funny?  It was a genuine proposal provided to the government at the time around 25 years ago.  It made perfect sense to me and was reported in the media at the time.
  Djebel Junior Train Controller

I still remember the plan to convert all of Victoria to SG in one plan and fast including the metro network.  Cost was just on $1b all up including the rollingstock conversions.

Why is this funny?  It was a genuine proposal provided to the government at the time around 25 years ago.  It made perfect sense to me and was reported in the media at the time.
bevans
The number is funny.  Good idea, but definitely Laughing at $1B.  Even 25 years ago.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
I still remember the plan to convert all of Victoria to SG in one plan and fast including the metro network.  Cost was just on $1b all up including the rollingstock conversions.
bevans
Reckon I still have an article or two out of The Weekly Times with Bracksy and a map of all Western lines and dates which they would be converted by ! That was until they saw what a mess the lines had been left in Shocked

BigShunter.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Just to upset @dangerdan707 maybe everything heading on the north east and to shepparton should be converted to SG. This way there isn't a single track SG line and it might promote more connections to older NSWGR lines in southern NSW that currently lie dormant.
@dangerdan707 won't be upset at all. Too convulsed with laughter, he's wet hisself.

Just take gman's brain fart thru to conclusion.

SG convert Toc. That means all the way up to SCS.
Just re-scoped the Shepparton upgrade.
Oops - Metro share to Craigieburn.  Gunna quad some tracks as well ??
Re-build the Albion loop to support frequent 2 way passenger.? Oops2 Airport rail need the corridor.

SG convert Deni. That means all the way to SCS.
Oops - Swan Hill as well.
Oops2 - Metro share to Sunbury. More quads.
Oops3 - Sunbury will be a run thru to Pakenham, via MM1. That multi $$bill project just got re-scoped, so did Airport  rail.
Oops4 - Pakenham keeps going to Bairnsdale. Yet more conversion.
ALL FOR A LINE THAT HAS NOT SEEN A TRAIN IN ONE YEAR.

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing
Sounds complicated.  How about  we just convert all the Vic SG back to BG, and convert NSW while we're at it?
Djebel
I feel disappointed to have missed this...
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
RE: converting the Toolamba - Echuca - Deniliquin line: Of course this would be possible, as the line is mostly timber sleepers, it shouldn't be too difficult, all that really needs to be done is move one rail over a bit and replace the sleepers that already need to be replaced anyway. You will of course still need to provide Broad Gauge access to Echuca station from Bendigo, but a short section of straight railed SG could fit through Echuca Station while leaving enough of the BG track in place.

As for the possible congestion South of Seymour, the simplest solution would be to just duplicate the existing SG line beside the old Broad Gauge line. 4 tracks is better than 3. No need for pie-in-the-sky ideas like running Seymour via the Airport or converting the entire Metro network, that's just not going to happen, and deep down you really should know that.

Converting North of Seymour to Shepparton and Tocumwal is a good idea, particularly if it includes re-opening from Toc' to Narrandera, but the fly in the ointment may just be the fact V/Line are expecting to run 10 return trains per day to Shepparton in the very near future. That really would be a mess to get them through between Tottenham and Southern Cross. Also you would probably need to dual gauge platform 3 at Southern Cross for the increase in traffic.

One thing that needs to be noted, the more services V/Line have to places like Shepparton, the less likely it will be converted. VLP don't like Sydney Gauge, And ARTC don't like VLP's trains on their tracks. It may be petty and childish, but it seems to be what we are stuck with.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
... but the fly in the ointment may just be the fact V/Line are expecting to run 10 return trains per day to Shepparton in the very near future, That really would be a mess to get them through between Tottenham and Southern Cross.
Gman_86
and that is the nub of the "problem".

The Shepparton/Seymour BG line is predominately a regular passenger service with a few, infrequent freight. Even less, those that would ever head north of the border.

Converting to SG at great expense, which can not share the corridor UP from Jacana, and still no greatly defined benefits.
There's not even a claim that the Deni rice train would somehow go to Sydney port instead.

Miraculously discover a daily high value freight from Shepparton that MUST go north, then maybe my opinion will re-assess.

PS: did same with Yarrawong, mainly because they were forced to convert or close. And where do their grain trains go now ??  SOUTH.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The only possible gain in converting the lines North of Seymour would be if it were to include the re-opening of the line to Narrandera. This would provide a secondary route for rail freight between Victoria and Sydney & Brisbane and could capture some freight from the Riverina region to Melbourne that is either currently on road or currently going to the Port of Sydney.

Toolamba - Echuca - Deniliquin would be more about re-routing freight on that corridor away from Bendigo (where the paths are going to get harder and harder to find). As I said, this in particular wouldn't be complicated to achieve as the line would need to be upgraded before it could be used again anyway as it is in poor condition. Moving one of the rails over while replacing the rotten timber sleepers wouldn't exactly be a big task.

You make a valid comparison with the Yarrawonga (Oaklands) line. The Toolamba - Echuca - Deniliquin line would only be converted out of necessity if the Toc line was being done. The Deni line on its own being guage converted isn't of interest to anyone.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
The only possible gain in converting the lines North of Seymour would be if it were to include the re-opening of the line to Narrandera. This would provide a secondary route for rail freight between Victoria and Sydney & Brisbane and could capture some freight from the Riverina region to Melbourne that is either currently on road or currently going to the Port of Sydney.
Gman_86
NSWGR can re-open the Toc / Narrandera line whenever they can find a favourable business case.

There is already an alternate SG route between Victoria and Sydney/Bribane. Last used when Wallan was blocked.
It's via Adelaide, sounds crazy but worked when required.

PS: or just for laughs, Narrandera southbound on BG.

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