New intercity commuter trains

 
  tonyp Chief Commissioner

Location: Shoalhaven
The disabled community was extensively consulted in the design stage of this Train and, by the way,love it.
This Train is the most DSAPT compliant of any Train in Australia.
Thank goodness it was the said community that was consulted on this and not this website!!
icdog
I've no doubt that the train itself, as a new-build, fully complies with the standards, but there would be very few, if any of the platforms it will use on the system where a wheelchair or mobility scooter can be driven aboard unassisted (leaving aside the associated issue of access between the street and the platform. Only the Sydney metro and much of the Perth system attain that standard of full accessibility.

My points actually related to the broader issues of accessibility for all those who need level access, not only personal mobility issues, but users with prams and suitcases. The amount of stepless space available is quite limited and will also be competed for by passengers with none of these needs. This will lead to congestion in the vestibule and end areas, compromising the efficiency of the train. One only has to ride the airport trains and observe the congested mess that develops with the introduction of suitcases and prams in those end and vestibule areas.

Sponsored advertisement

  ANR Chief Commissioner

Just another Oscar train, only more backward. Anyone who has travelled on one will know. As I have said before, will be of better service when eventually converted to suburban running.

CAF civity would have been a better fit, and allowed more flexibility to travel further out from where the wires stop.
  ANR Chief Commissioner

Just another Oscar train, only more backward. Anyone who has travelled on one will know. As I have said before, will be of better service when eventually converted to suburban running.

CAF civity would have been a better fit, and allowed more flexibility to travel further out from where the wires stop.
  georges Chief Train Controller

The disabled community was extensively consulted in the design stage of this Train and, by the way,love it.
This Train is the most DSAPT compliant of any Train in Australia.
Thank goodness it was the said community that was consulted on this and not this website!!
icdog
The effectiveness of any construction standard is reduced if passengers are not accommodated in accordance with the intent of the standard. Cooperation between all passengers. and the railway staff who assist the disabled, is necessary if the purpose of the standard is to be met. Enhanced wheelchair spaces in Mariyung sets will, hopefully, better promote that cooperation than in the EMUs they are replacing.
  UpperQuad Locomotive Fireman

Location: 184.8 miles to Sydney
Just another Oscar train, only more backward. Anyone who has travelled on one will know.
ANR
Have you travelled in a NIF set, ANR?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The disabled community was extensively consulted in the design stage of this Train and, by the way,love it.
This Train is the most DSAPT compliant of any Train in Australia.
Thank goodness it was the said community that was consulted on this and not this website!!
icdog

While it may be an improvement on other suburban trains on the ST network it is by no means at the level of the Sydney Metro which has zero need for assistance for a disabled person because it is 100% level boarding.

Tonyp's concern about the vestibule is a legitimate concern within the sydney metro area. I think it may have been better to build a longer 4 car set of about 25 metres then to settle on the suburban 20 metre length to include these areas he is talking about. With the plug doors there isn't really a need for closing the vestibule are off like it is on a v set but still adding that extra 5 metres for some seats that don't require climbing stairs for the elderly would have been a nice solution.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The disabled community was extensively consulted in the design stage of this Train and, by the way,love it.
This Train is the most DSAPT compliant of any Train in Australia.
Thank goodness it was the said community that was consulted on this and not this website!!

While it may be an improvement on other suburban trains on the ST network it is by no means at the level of the Sydney Metro which has zero need for assistance for a disabled person because it is 100% level boarding.

Tonyp's concern about the vestibule is a legitimate concern within the sydney metro area. I think it may have been better to build a longer 4 car set of about 25 metres then to settle on the suburban 20 metre length to include these areas he is talking about. With the plug doors there isn't really a need for closing the vestibule are off like it is on a v set but still adding that extra 5 metres for some seats that don't require climbing stairs for the elderly would have been a nice solution.
simstrain
Considering the seating is 2+2, yeah I didn't get the need for 20m instead of 24m car lengths like the V-sets as this would get another 2 rows of seats or 16 people per car x 8 cars = 128 people per 8 car set. Which I would have thought was cheaper? Not sure how many seats in the new D-sets though on how does this compare.

Maybe the issue is that for cars that long the platform gap has to be wider.
  tonyp Chief Commissioner

Location: Shoalhaven
In general the design is obviously constrained by the requirement for standardised door positions across the whole commuter fleet (future introduction of platform screen doors?) and thus the length of the individual cars. All the competing design requirements had to be shoehorned into that package. The result is a compromise on several fronts. The V sets were basically a country train platform with greater scope to create a more comfortable experience (except for people with disabilities).
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
The disabled community was extensively consulted in the design stage of this Train and, by the way,love it.
This Train is the most DSAPT compliant of any Train in Australia.
Thank goodness it was the said community that was consulted on this and not this website!!

While it may be an improvement on other suburban trains on the ST network it is by no means at the level of the Sydney Metro which has zero need for assistance for a disabled person because it is 100% level boarding.
simstrain
I'm not sure if there will be 100% level boarding on the Bankstown Line legacy platforms when it is converted to metro, particularly on the more heavily curved platforms where the track elevation also comes into play.  While it is proposed to use gap fillers, it doesn't help much for level boarding.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I think it may have been better to build a longer 4 car set of about 25 metres then to settle on the suburban 20 metre length to include these areas he is talking about. With the plug doors there isn't really a need for closing the vestibule are off like it is on a v set but still adding that extra 5 metres for some seats that don't require climbing stairs for the elderly would have been a nice solution.
Longer carriages have the problem of increased gap between doorways and curved platforms.
UpperQuad
Exactly.  Not so much an issue where doorways are at the ends of carriages over the bogies, but the longer the carriage, the bigger the gap for doorways towards the centre of the carriage on concave platforms.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
In general the design is obviously constrained by the requirement for standardised door positions across the whole commuter fleet (future introduction of platform screen doors?) and thus the length of the individual cars. All the competing design requirements had to be shoehorned into that package. The result is a compromise on several fronts. The V sets were basically a country train platform with greater scope to create a more comfortable experience (except for people with disabilities).
tonyp
I think you're right Tony.  Having standardised door positions across the whole commuter fleet makes it easier to introduce platform screen doors on the busier stations.  ATO will enable precise stopping points, regardless of the length of the train.  I don't see that as being such a bad thing, notwithstanding any compromises which have to be made with the design of the Intercity fleet.

The Intercity trains stop at a limited number of key suburban stations and it is sensible that PSDs, where installed, are compatible for both fleet types.  The only issue I can see with PSDs is for Regional services which stop at major stations like Strathfield, Hornsby, Parramatta, Penrith and Campbelltown, and which have doorways at the end of carriages.  It shouldn't be too difficult to incorporate additional openings on the PSDs for these trains, assuming they have standardised door spacing.  I also assume that the new Regional train fleet will be subject to ATO where installed.  Not sure about how heritage trains will fit into the picture.  3801 upgraded to ATO?

It's presumptuous to comment on the comfort level and accessibility of the new Intercity fleet until the general public has had the opportunity to actually ride on it.  It's also meaningless to assume that's it's just another Oscar with a few upgrades.  Although it may look the same, from my perspective based on the information released to date, I'd regard it as being a completely different train.  My only criticism is the fixed seating, which I'm sure will come back to bite them.  Don't they ever learn?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

PSD's are not going on to any station platform that isn't a metro or in the city. You might get some gates that are positioned at the yellow line to protect people, wheelchairs and prams from falling on to the tracks but for intercity trains it was really silly to try to build them to run in to the city circle. I don't hate the new trains like some on here but I do see some design issues that may need to be changed.

As for the bankstown line there is really on a couple which are heavily curved. platform 2 at punchbowl. Belmore could have some of the middle trimmed to reduce the curve and the ends widened. Dulwich Hill is the only other station with curves that are likely to cause any issues and it can have some bulk taken out of the middle of the platform to help reduce this issue.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
PSD's are not going on to any station platform that isn't a metro or in the city. You might get some gates that are positioned at the yellow line to protect people, wheelchairs and prams from falling on to the tracks but for intercity trains it was really silly to try to build them to run in to the city circle. I don't hate the new trains like some on here but I do see some design issues that may need to be changed.

As for the bankstown line there is really on a couple which are heavily curved. platform 2 at punchbowl. Belmore could have some of the middle trimmed to reduce the curve and the ends widened. Dulwich Hill is the only other station with curves that are likely to cause any issues and it can have some bulk taken out of the middle of the platform to help reduce this issue.
simstrain
How can you be so certain that PSDs will only be installed on the Sydney Trains' CBD stations?  In your usual form, you make these bald assertions without any evidence to back them up.  You may well be right, but until there is an official announcement of which stations will receive PSDs, CBD or otherwise, it's best to wait before making pronouncements.  There are several major suburban stations, such as Chatswood (Sydney Trains), North Sydney, Redfern, Strathfield and Parramatta to name a few,  which would warrant PSDs.

I don't think there's any intention to run the D sets on the City Circle, but as discussed earlier, there is the possibility that some Gosford/Wyong Intercity services will continue to run on the North Shore Line through to Central.  If so, they would probably be 6 or possibly 8 car sets and not the 10 car sets.  Otherwise, they could all run to Central via Strathfield.  That's still to be confirmed.  


I'm sceptical of whether all of the Bankstown Line platforms after the metro conversion will have level access, but they may well fill the gap.  If that is achieved, then there's no reason why the same outcome couldn't be achieved on the rest of the existing network.
  tazzer96 Chief Commissioner

The D sets will almost certainly be run on the eastern suburbs line, and thats likely the first place you would install platform screen doors on classic stations serving double deckers.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
The D sets will almost certainly be run on the eastern suburbs line, and thats likely the first place you would install platform screen doors on classic stations serving double deckers.
tazzer96
No they won't.  The whole point of the new crossovers at Erskineville is to allow the SCO 10 car D sets to run directly to Sydney Terminal via the Dive from the Illawarra Local, separating them from T4 suburban services to Bondi Junction on the Main.  I agree though that the ESR stations are candidates for PSDs.

Sponsored advertisement

Display from: