NSW Gov funding for services post-Bankstown Metro Opening

 
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Well, @s3_gunzel has come back to try and shut me down again? Not this time mother.... Where are my manners? I left them the moment you made this comment.
AheadMatthewawsome
Thought we could apply some logic, Matthew. I must have been wrong, I apologise - I thought that you would be logical about all of this and I was wrong. You’re letting emotion get in the way of having a discussion based on the facts, and you’re not being objective.

Before I start... I understand why you are thinking that it's self centred. It's because these things that your all talking about would affect my life.
AheadMatthewawsome
Cry me a river, you’re not the only one it would affect. Places change, things move around.

First, IT'S A FREAKING JOKE! DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THAT YOU'LL COME AND KNOCK DOWN MY HOUSE LIKE THE EMPORER OF PERSIA?! Just like Paul Keeting said, "You gotta be joking!"
AheadMatthewawsome
Compulsory acquisition? Anyone? Anyone at all?

Next, Did you know that Turramurra is my local station. The staff know me, I know them. I get my Hot Chocolate at Cafe Oasis. Then I catch either the Bus or Train to wherever I need to go. That can be for Work, School, Train Spotting, Exercise, going to the Airport for a funeral, and seeing the Attractions of Sydney.
AheadMatthewawsome
Could have guessed, didn’t need to.

Turramurra has 4 stands. Which serve routes 571, 572, 573, 575, 576T, 577, and 577P. And serves School Buses for 6 High Schools. 2 Primary Schools, which is rare in Sydney. And numerous private School Buses and Charters. This is way more than say Gordon. And serves over half of the buses in Region 12!
AheadMatthewawsome
River, tears. Again, bus stops (which *is* what Turramurra is, even with 4 stands) can be moved, and routes re-aligned. It is not difficult.

Next, There is a whole project called the Highline is doing exactly this. And has quite a lot of support from the locals. I acknowledge my affiliation with Luna Park Sydney. Because one of you would have a go at me for not saying it. I seem to never get anything right with you lot. And your not helping it, Gunzel!
AheadMatthewawsome
If you didn’t act like the media throwing about sensationalism, this would not be an issue, but alas, here you are, throwing around sensationalism in the name of “ThIs MiGhT AfFeCt My LiFe”.

What is your affiliation with them, Matthew? Are you a member, or do you do something of use?

Lots of you have been talking about rebuilding the tracks on the Eastern Side of the Harbour Bridge. This would require for the Cahill Expressway to close. This is a fantastic opportunity to reuse the strip. The Expressway has been hated since it was built. Even by Clover Moore. She said that "The Cahill Expressway coast off Sydney Harbour". So, you ARE closing down a major road then!
AheadMatthewawsome
No, it would not. It would reduce the lane count. You don’t need to close a main arterial to re-build two tracks where they shouldn’t have been removed in the first place. We don’t listen to the Lord Mayor of Sydney as they have no control over state assets. Which is what roads are. State assets.

Grammar is not where I shine, it really helps for there to be a spell checker on my devices. So it's completely unesseseary to shut me down about it.
AheadMatthewawsome
Not your grammar, teaching you the right term. I don’t care what grammar you use.

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  AheadMatthewawsome Junior Train Controller

Location: Opening Train Lines
Oh, my, lord. I thought so too! But I can’t do that with someone who hates on everything that people say. Because that isn’t compatible. This is what happens every, time. There is actually quite a few things that I agree here! Like curve easing, relocating Mount Kuring-gai station, relocating the sidings to St Leonards, and the additional tracks at North Sydney. Can’t you find something nice to say about any of this?

I am obviously not gonna say where my house is. I just don’t want you all deciding that this plan is the best. And consequently, it’s my house! Can’t you see that some of the (not all) of the things that are said are a bit exaggerated for comedic effect? Or maybe the King Of The Word gave me too many bath salts. (That sentence before is an example.)

It may not be as big as Mt Druitt. But it’s a major interchange for the community. If you look af a map, it’s a terminal. Compared to other nearby terminals like Chatswood, Gordon, Hornsby, and Macquarie Centre. It’s a terminal.

You are not responsible for acquisitions. That is the responsibility of the NSW Government. That’s why I said “you’ll”, rather than “the NSW Government”.

I have been an ‘Honorary Team Member’ of Luna Park for almost 4 years. If you think I’m telling a fib. Contact them!

Clover Moore has responsibility for the local roads in the City of Sydney Council. But, yes. The A, B, and M class roads are the responsibility of the Roads and Maritime Service. In the past few years. All the toll roads have been transferred  to Transurban. Which is a private company. I have quite a strong opinion on privatisation of Toll Roads. Because it hasn’t worked well in Sydney. But I won’t talk about it today. This is just her opinion. One that lots of people in the City agree with. If you have the Council agreeing with you idea. It will make it easier to happen.

I won’t worry about the last thing you said. It’s the most respectful thing you’ve said! Thanks for clarifying.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
"But don't expect more tracks beyond St Leonards. There's just simply not enough space. The rest have been taken up."
From the bridge about 500m or so north of the station this is very much true and personally I don't see the need for it as there is nowhere south of the bridge or even on the bridge for this extra traffic.

Transtopic was correct in that there should be a move to a consistent stopping pattern with two exceptions, Berwora and CC via shore. Both of these can operate limited express using Gordon and the proposed tunnel St L to Nth Syd. Both of which I would not expect more than 2 trains per hour from each.

So on that basis,
- CC arrives at Hornsby (2 per hour), its 6min behind the previous service, it runs express to Chatswood,
- 8 intermediate stops, saves about 3-4min, so its caching up to the all stopper in front.
- After the CC leaves both Hornsby and Gordon a all stopper follows enabling around 3min separation.
- CC would skip Artarmon and stop St L and then Nth Sydney, skip Milisons Point.
- The all stopper infront of the CC would take the long way via W&W and then fall behind the CC at Nth Sydney by 3min and then the train from Gordon and then one followed from Hornsby.

For Berowra trains (2 x hour), I'd express from Hornsby to Gordon and then all stop from there and also by-pass W&W.

just off the top of m head, may need some tweaking.

Agree that there needs to be a lift of track speed on straight track and that some island stations need to be alerted to improve the express speed past the station.  70 - 80km/h through the platform and 100 - 120 km/h on the long straights is not unreasonable.





  Transtopic Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
"But don't expect more tracks beyond St Leonards. There's just simply not enough space. The rest have been taken up."
From the bridge about 500m or so north of the station this is very much true and personally I don't see the need for it as there is nowhere south of the bridge or even on the bridge for this extra traffic.

Transtopic was correct in that there should be a move to a consistent stopping pattern with two exceptions, Berwora and CC via shore. Both of these can operate limited express using Gordon and the proposed tunnel St L to Nth Syd. Both of which I would not expect more than 2 trains per hour from each.

So on that basis,
- CC arrives at Hornsby (2 per hour), its 6min behind the previous service, it runs express to Chatswood,
- 8 intermediate stops, saves about 3-4min, so its caching up to the all stopper in front.
- After the CC leaves both Hornsby and Gordon a all stopper follows enabling around 3min separation.
- CC would skip Artarmon and stop St L and then Nth Sydney, skip Milisons Point.
- The all stopper infront of the CC would take the long way via W&W and then fall behind the CC at Nth Sydney by 3min and then the train from Gordon and then one followed from Hornsby.

For Berowra trains (2 x hour), I'd express from Hornsby to Gordon and then all stop from there and also by-pass W&W.

just off the top of m head, may need some tweaking.

Agree that there needs to be a lift of track speed on straight track and that some island stations need to be alerted to improve the express speed past the station.  70 - 80km/h through the platform and 100 - 120 km/h on the long straights is not unreasonable.




RTT_Rules
I still think that there is some uncertainty whether the CC services via the NSL will continue when the D sets come on stream.  There is clearly an intention to run all Intercity peak hour services in 10 car sets with the initial order boosted to make up the 55x10 car sets from 77x4 car and 34x6 car sets including 1x4 car spare set.  As discussed earlier, it's debatable whether they would run 10 car sets on the NSL through the city underground.  It's almost certain that the D sets won't run in an 8 car configuration.  It will be 4, 6 or 10 car sets, with the smaller consists only running off-peak.  If the CC via NSL are diverted via the Northern Line to Central, then it would free up capacity on the NSL to run more semi-express Berowra services interleaving with an all stations pattern from Hornsby.  As there won't be the same need for the higher frequency on the NSL from Chatswood after the metro is extended, that could also allow the Berowra services to skip Wollstonecraft and Waverton, as the ECRL once did.

From my analysis of the timetables, the current all stations service from Berowra to Central via the NSL takes 65 mins and the semi-express takes 55 mins.  If a permanent semi-express service from Berowra to Central via the Northern Line were to take place, it would take 60 mins.  The current CC Intercity service from Hornsby to Central via the NSL (all stations from Chatswood) takes 48 mins and express via the Northern Line 36 mins.

With the proposed signalling upgrade, all journey times could potentially be reduced by at least 5 minutes just to bring them back to the previous times before the timetable was slowed down in 2005 to improve on-time running.  A total saving of 10 mins per journey is not out of the question.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Agree that there needs to be a lift of track speed on straight track and that some island stations need to be alerted to improve the express speed past the station.  70 - 80km/h through the platform and 100 - 120 km/h on the long straights is not unreasonable.
I still think that there is some uncertainty whether the CC services via the NSL will continue when the D sets come on stream.
...
With the proposed signalling upgrade, all journey times could potentially be reduced by at least 5 minutes just to bring them back to the previous times before the timetable was slowed down in 2005 to improve on-time running.  
...
A total saving of 10 mins per journey is not out of the question.
Transtopic

I completely agree.  I think mixed stopping patterns on the NSL (post full D set deployment) to provide a faster service to Berowa are as likely as mixed stopping patterns to improve the service to Tallawong.

I remain unconvinced signalling alone will allow much faster transit times (at least not 10min worth).  The whole line is engineered for a 60kph top speed, as that's all that's required for single stopping pattern service, and given the other traffic it's all that's possible even with skip stopping.  Visual signal placement and separation in the limiting factor for speed in only a few locations including the Blues Point bends (I hate trying to spell those other little station's names).  

@RTT_Rules
The cynic in me suggests the current TfNSE administration, and their (over) emphasis on $/trip KPI, have every reason to encourage NSL PAX north of Chatswood to transfer to the Metro, and a faster HR service - even if implemented for free using magic fairy dust, will hurt their KPIs.  $s might be the same, but the Trip/$ KPI drops if the same journey of the same distance can be completed with one service rather than two.

I like the concept of those tunnels, but pricing their construction cost is too difficult IMHO, unless the TBMs are brought in.  In which case there is a high overhead and $/km makes little sense for such a short distance.  In Nth Sydney, $500m wouldn't buy back enough real estate for the requisite work site.

I sparked this whole debate by suggesting the NSL corridor is where I would amplify.  But I want to leave you all with a thought.

IMHO the second biggest problem with the network (behind inadequate CBD paths for HR) is the sextup between Strathfield and Redfern.  The below rail hardware is segregated by class (short, medium and long haul).  Above rail operations are segregated by geography.  Concord West gets an (infrequent) express service, Leppington and Liverpool get the milk run.  The way to fix this is with amplification, and IMHO as I've argues before, this is needed to realise any meaningful benefit of other amplifications further west.  Either get the local off T2, or build another express path for interurbans, the latter being an East West amplification for a mostly North South service.

So here is how I'd like you to think of NSL amplification:
It's *not* an amplification of the NSLs for the benefit of the NSL (in fact it introduces the problems most other lines have to the NSL).  It's an amplification of Strathfield-Redfern, with a 20km shortcut thrown in for good measure.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
St Leonards station area and alignment towards the tunnel has amble area for tunnel construction base.

Would it be with a TBM? Not sure, 2km in Sydney sandstone is not exactly a big task, I suspect it would be with drill method.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

That north sydney to st leonards tunnel is only a proposal on this forum RTT. There is nothing official that I know of. I don't disagree with transtopic's post that all CCN will be sent via strathfield. My suggestion for third platforms is only if the CCN residents want a direct connection to chatswood and some CCN services are required to be run along the north shore.

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