Overland Jan 2021

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Correction to above Mike

"they cost an arm and a leg to use because they are probably not subsidised by the govt", there is a very large difference between who runs a service with no external funding and those who do.

The lack of advocacy is likely because of the very difference demographic spread of the two states.

Most of the SA population lives within a 90min drive of Adelaide. Only a few smaller communities are beyond this and the size of those communities doesn't support RPT in most ground based RPT in most cases.

Thanks for the clarification, my intention was to say the sparse regional buses are NOT likely subsidised by the government.

It's the chicken and the egg story, you cannot get good PT unless you get a socially progressive government that's actually interested in PT and with the advocacy of The Overland by the SA Opposition leader, perhaps there's finally some long overdue thinking in this regard in SA.


Assuming RPT is rapid public transport. Most public transport by the distance it operates in Victoria is not rapid, but it's frequent and relatively affordable.

Mike.
WRONG Mike!

The regional buses in SA ARE SUBSIDISED by by the SA Government, they could not run otherwise.

I live in a country town serviced by a subsidised bus, which I have used sometimes having to share the ride with another passenger.

It is quite obvious that you look over your left (wing) shoulder when you view South Australia.
steam4ian


The last time I checked, with a view to taking a PT holiday is regional SA, the fares were expensive, the services infrequent and it was all a bit too hard to organise. For example:

Melbourne to Mt Gambier - 426Km.

https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/ef2a18c6-76a2-4f00-aa1f-16214f4168f3/Mt-Gambier-Melbourne-(via-Casterton-Hamil)

OR

https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/95418c32-d2fa-48d6-9985-cae575623c45/Mt-Gambier

Adelaide to Mt Gambier - 434 Km.

https://stateliner.com.au/wp-content/uploads/southeast-071220.pdf

WRONG, Steam for Ian.

V/Line's one way fare, Melbourne to Mt Gambier is Adult: $51.60, Concession, $25.80 or free with 4 return journey vouchers a year.

Stateliner's one way fare, Adelaide to Mt Gambier is Adult: $85.20, Concession, $42.60. Don't know if SA gets free travel vouchers.

Moreover with V/Line, a day return journey to Mt Gambier is available and a regional train journey (SA used to have regional trains) is a part of the experience.

So YES...left wing or not, our progressive Labor government clearly provides a far better service to one of SA's biggest regional cities.

Admittedly these days, I work from home or anywhere with an Internet connection, therefore travelling on SA regional buses, though nowhere near as comfortable as travelling by train, it's doable because time isn't against me anymore.

Mike.

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Correction to above Mike

"they cost an arm and a leg to use because they are probably not subsidised by the govt", there is a very large difference between who runs a service with no external funding and those who do.

The lack of advocacy is likely because of the very difference demographic spread of the two states.

Most of the SA population lives within a 90min drive of Adelaide. Only a few smaller communities are beyond this and the size of those communities doesn't support RPT in most ground based RPT in most cases.

Thanks for the clarification, my intention was to say the sparse regional buses are NOT likely subsidised by the government.

It's the chicken and the egg story, you cannot get good PT unless you get a socially progressive government that's actually interested in PT and with the advocacy of The Overland by the SA Opposition leader, perhaps there's finally some long overdue thinking in this regard in SA.


Assuming RPT is rapid public transport. Most public transport by the distance it operates in Victoria is not rapid, but it's frequent and relatively affordable.

Mike.
WRONG Mike!

The regional buses in SA ARE SUBSIDISED by by the SA Government, they could not run otherwise.

I live in a country town serviced by a subsidised bus, which I have used sometimes having to share the ride with another passenger.

It is quite obvious that you look over your left (wing) shoulder when you view South Australia.


The last time I checked, with a view to taking a PT holiday is regional SA, the fares were expensive, the services infrequent and it was all a bit too hard to organise. For example:

Melbourne to Mt Gambier - 426Km.

https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/ef2a18c6-76a2-4f00-aa1f-16214f4168f3/Mt-Gambier-Melbourne-(via-Casterton-Hamil)

OR

https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/95418c32-d2fa-48d6-9985-cae575623c45/Mt-Gambier

Adelaide to Mt Gambier - 434 Km.

https://stateliner.com.au/wp-content/uploads/southeast-071220.pdf

WRONG, Steam for Ian.

V/Line's one way fare, Melbourne to Mt Gambier is Adult: $51.60, Concession, $25.80 or free with 4 return journey vouchers a year.

Stateliner's one way fare, Adelaide to Mt Gambier is Adult: $85.20, Concession, $42.60. Don't know if SA gets free travel vouchers.

Moreover with V/Line, a day return journey to Mt Gambier is available and a regional train journey (SA used to have regional trains) is a part of the experience.

So YES...left wing or not, our progressive Labor government clearly provides a far better service to one of SA's biggest regional cities.

Admittedly these days, I work from home or anywhere with an Internet connection, therefore travelling on SA regional buses, though nowhere near as comfortable as travelling by train, it's doable because time isn't against me anymore.

Mike.
The Vinelander
The subsidy level determines the fare.

Vic has one large city which contributes a close 2nd place to the nations GDP. Where as Adelaide......

Therefore the pockets and capability to do so by the SA govt to funding regional services is far lower than Vic. SA has had predominately ALP govts for years, meanwhile in NSW the LNP govt has done more for regional services in 8 years than the entire former ALP 11 year term so its got nothing to do with which side of politics you are from.

SA closed its regional rail passenger services due to mostly lack of supporting population and vast distances on lines with little or no supporting freight. While I believe two services should still be operating (Mt Baker and Barossa Valley), these would more commuter than regional.

Mt Gambier would be nice, but the numbers unlikely stack up in a state with lower levels of revenue than the likes of Vic. Port Augusta and to a larger degree Whyalla is simply too little too far away although at least the line is well maintained for freight to consider a trial.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I'll let you have the argument Shane with a few proviso's.

1. I acknowledged regional PT in SA has been lacking by both political parties until Opposition leader Peter Malinauskas strong and ongoing support of The Overland.

2. The fares charged for SA's regional PT are way too expensive and bear in mind that PT is meant to provide mobility for the poor and underprivileged of society. PT supporters and advocates who really don't want to drive cars, piggy-back on that.

3. NSW has to offer attractive fares due to the slowness of its regional trains/buses because of its geography and it's a long way behind Victoria in its regional PT frequency and coverage.

Mike.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

3. NSW has to offer attractive fares due to the slowness of its regional trains/buses because of its geography and it's a long way behind Victoria in its regional PT frequency and coverage.

Mike.
The Vinelander

This is bull dust. If Vic was so far ahead then why doesn't Mildura have a rail service? Most of NSW's regional services are of a significantly greater distance then vline and even cross state borders. Most of what vline does is what we would consider intercity services. The really long victorian services are still loco hauled until this new long distance vlocity is operational.

Oh and the new trains NSW are ordering will be able to utilise the overhead and are much more efficient making these long distance services that operate even more viable. They will also be faster then the XPT as they can reach the same 160km/h and will be as nimble or more so as the xplorer is which already operates the dubbo service faster then the XPT even with it's slower top speed.
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
The slogan is "Real trains not road trains". There's 4 locos that I know of with this livery. From memory NR 14 and two of the NRs in the 30's
Fatty
NR14, NR34, NR66 and NR84 are the NRs that carry the "Real trains not road trains". NR66 being the odd one out as she is a 6, not a 4.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
3. NSW has to offer attractive fares due to the slowness of its regional trains/buses because of its geography and it's a long way behind Victoria in its regional PT frequency and coverage.

Mike.

This is bull dust. If Vic was so far ahead then why doesn't Mildura have a rail service?
simstrain

Mildura doesn't have a rail service agreed., nor does NSW which used to have passenger trains operating to many places it no longer runs to...but Mildura does have 4 different PT routes to get there, something a train simply cannot do.

https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/eed28fd0-3b05-4a2a-8cc1-dfb15afacda8/Mildura-Melbourne-via-Donald-Maryborough-Ballarat

https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/19e67ce6-d5ed-47df-a94e-4b673448e6cf/Mildura-Melbourne-(via-Swan-Hill-and-Bendigo)

https://d1u8c9axrpru07.cloudfront.net/1609319217390/bus-1545-2014-01-27-2021-12-31.pdf

Mildura's passenger train saga has been well documented in other forums and suffice to say, the size of your state should be no impediment to providing a comprehensive PT service. EG Griffith to Hillston or Mildura to Broken Hill.

Mike.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Thru Nhill at 1.05 pm or there abouts
wobert

A collection of photos from Nhill:















  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Thru Nhill at 1.05 pm or there abouts

A collection of photos from Nhill:















BigShunter
but how many actually got on it?  not many looking at the before and after photos....................
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Thru Nhill at 1.05 pm or there abouts

A collection of photos from Nhill:















but how many actually got on it?  not many looking at the before and after photos....................
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

The population of South Australia is 1.74m people and the population of the Adelaide Metro area is 1.429m people so no wonder regional rail is a no go. That leaves 2,858,000 for all the rest of the state of South Australia.  And SA does not really have huge sattalite cities or towns really there are a few though.  

Also Murray Bridge is a hours drive or thereabouts from the Adelaide CBD the train takes longer though and the only other timetabled stop in South Australia is Bordertown which is what could be called a spot on the map almost.  So why pay for a service that really does nothing for SA but is used in Victoria as a train service from Nhill to Melbourne and saves V/Line having to run a train for that service.  V/Line have cars locked off in Adelaide on The Overland service that get opened up for V/Line passengers from Nhill onwards to Melbourne the same happens in reverse as well.  How many cars get locked off though is unknown but if it runs at it's usual 5 car train then it might be two cars are locked out of use in Adelaide and so really only 3 cars are through passengers to Melbourne by Journey Beyond. And as hardly any passenger go to either Murray Bridge or Bordertown then the SA govt pulling the plug on the money was the right thing to do.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Because the Overland only runs twice weekly, it's Victorian patronage is limited to say the least. If it were daily it's probably fair to say it would carry many more pax.
V/Line pays for the rear car only which more often than not becomes a staff lounge so the crew can take turns in getting away from the pax. On any given day a Max of 12 V/Line pax are in the V/Line car.

Mike.
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Smaller European and American cities than you have mentioned for South Australia have access to passenger rail.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm thinking about risking a trip to Danistan - why should I go Overland?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I'm thinking about risking a trip to Danistan - why should I go Overland?
don_dunstan
Don't, you have justified to us and yourself for a few years on this subject why should shouldn't, so why ask now why you should.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I just searched and first got a fare of $72 Adelaide-Ararat yesterday - then searched again when I was ready to book and it had gone up to $114 single. Not sure if this was because the offer GSR were showing me had been overbooked in the meantime.

Jetstar varies alot but I could probably get a fare of $101 on Wednesday (no booked luggage) or $79 on Thursday (including luggage). I can just catch a V/line train from SX to Ballarat and still be faster than the bus or train.

The V/line bus is lightly booked all this week (you can check that without completing your booking) and is $62 Adelaide - Ballarat which is my destination on the way over.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The population of South Australia is 1.74m people and the population of the Adelaide Metro area is 1.429m people so no wonder regional rail is a no go. That leaves 2,858,000 for all the rest of the state of South Australia.  And SA does not really have huge sattalite cities or towns really there are a few though.  

Also Murray Bridge is a hours drive or thereabouts from the Adelaide CBD the train takes longer though and the only other timetabled stop in South Australia is Bordertown which is what could be called a spot on the map almost.  So why pay for a service that really does nothing for SA but is used in Victoria as a train service from Nhill to Melbourne and saves V/Line having to run a train for that service.  V/Line have cars locked off in Adelaide on The Overland service that get opened up for V/Line passengers from Nhill onwards to Melbourne the same happens in reverse as well.  How many cars get locked off though is unknown but if it runs at it's usual 5 car train then it might be two cars are locked out of use in Adelaide and so really only 3 cars are through passengers to Melbourne by Journey Beyond. And as hardly any passenger go to either Murray Bridge or Bordertown then the SA govt pulling the plug on the money was the right thing to do.
DJPeters
One to many zero's.

My only argument against your final statement is that while yes the SA govt is accountable to the people of SA, we should be more open eyed and if and I say if there is a benefit for the people of just east of the border using the train to access Adelaide, then the SA govt is being short -sighted.

In comparison, the Qld govt contributes to the XPT to Brisbane and there is only one stop in Qld for the XPT, Brisbane. There is also an agreement on both NSW borders with Qld and Vic about dual funding of the local PT including the XPT to Melbourne.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Smaller European and American cities than you have mentioned for South Australia have access to passenger rail.
NSWGR8022

And a lot bigger ones don't, especially in America.

Scranton pop 77,000, 192km from New York, and hasn't seen a passenger train for a very, very long time, despite still being rail connected.

There are plenty of others.
  Big J Deputy Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
I just searched and first got a fare of $72 Adelaide-Ararat yesterday - then searched again when I was ready to book and it had gone up to $114 single. Not sure if this was because the offer GSR were showing me had been overbooked in the meantime.

Jetstar varies alot but I could probably get a fare of $101 on Wednesday (no booked luggage) or $79 on Thursday (including luggage). I can just catch a V/line train from SX to Ballarat and still be faster than the bus or train.

The V/line bus is lightly booked all this week (you can check that without completing your booking) and is $62 Adelaide - Ballarat which is my destination on the way over.
don_dunstan
Don, I am wondering if they do the same thing with their booking system as airlines with algorithms?

For example if you look at an airline website it will display a price. If you don't purchase it and go back to the website later the price will change based on your IP address, and usually the price is higher. That has happened to me travelling domestically.

Some VPN ads claim that using a another country (usually selecting a less wealthy country) that the prices will be lower. I have never tested that. Mind you I have no need to travel overseas at the moment.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Don't know how true this is but I have been told that when price shopping for anything always use 'incognito mode' to stop ads for the service and to avoid price increases if you look a second time.
Don't know how true this is.
  Brucetiki Station Master

The population of South Australia is 1.74m people and the population of the Adelaide Metro area is 1.429m people so no wonder regional rail is a no go. That leaves 2,858,000 for all the rest of the state of South Australia.  And SA does not really have huge sattalite cities or towns really there are a few though.  

Also Murray Bridge is a hours drive or thereabouts from the Adelaide CBD the train takes longer though and the only other timetabled stop in South Australia is Bordertown which is what could be called a spot on the map almost.  So why pay for a service that really does nothing for SA but is used in Victoria as a train service from Nhill to Melbourne and saves V/Line having to run a train for that service.  V/Line have cars locked off in Adelaide on The Overland service that get opened up for V/Line passengers from Nhill onwards to Melbourne the same happens in reverse as well.  How many cars get locked off though is unknown but if it runs at it's usual 5 car train then it might be two cars are locked out of use in Adelaide and so really only 3 cars are through passengers to Melbourne by Journey Beyond. And as hardly any passenger go to either Murray Bridge or Bordertown then the SA govt pulling the plug on the money was the right thing to do.
DJPeters

When I travelled on The Overland just before the COVID lockdown last year, it was half a carriage that was reserved for V/Line customers.  The rest of the 5 car train was Journey Beyond passengers from Adelaide.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Well there's been probably thousands of pages written about the Overland as well as a few reviews by travelers so as luck would have it, now there is a Very Comprehensive video review of the trip from Melbourne to Adelaide.

The clip covers all aspects of the trip from the passenger comfort, available food, café even the toilets !

So if your thinking about a trip sit back and enjoy, you won't be dis appointed. I know it's half an hour long but well worth a look. I would have to say very well done to the you fellow who did the video, excellent work.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsGZZdbAlcQ&list=TLPQMjQwNDIwMjHvGmKlzgotmw&index=5

BigShunter.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
He's reviewed nearly every train service in Australia that guy - fairly objectively it seems.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Nice video.

Is that a 3 story office building at Murray Bridge?
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
Nice video.

Is that a 3 story office building at Murray Bridge?
bevans
Without watching the video it's probably the Bridgeport Hotel. The old one was knocked down and a new 4ish storey building built in its place. When it opens (in June) the upper floor accomodation rooms should have great views of the rail bridge Smile
https://bridgeporthotel.com.au/

Richard.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Nice video.

Is that a 3 story office building at Murray Bridge?
Without watching the video it's probably the Bridgeport Hotel. The old one was knocked down and a new 4ish storey building built in its place. When it opens (in June) the upper floor accomodation rooms should have great views of the rail bridge Smile
https://bridgeporthotel.com.au/

Richard.
rwatts

Thanks Richard it is quite a tall structure in the surrounds so it stands out in the video.

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