Victorian budget 2021/2022 and Election 2022 promises

 
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
SRL despite how it has come about, will revolutionise inter suburban travel in Melbourne. This is what is planned out in Plan Melbourne 2050 - 20 minute neighbourhoods Employment, education and services all within 20 minutes of where you live. A document that DoT had from Development Victoria, but ignored.

My only criticism is Bus and Light Rail networks should be upgraded now to begin to deliver the benefits of SRL while it is under construction. Especially in the inner city were Light Rail is the SRL.

Lockie
Lockie91
Well I for one sure as hell hope you (and the urban planners) are right. Because if not we are going to be looking at one of if not the most expensive White Elephant in Victorian history

Of course the project will take so long to complete that none of the people involved will be around in politics / their jobs long enough to see it completed so there won't be any accountability to be had anyway so Hey-Ho, Let's Go!

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  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

SRL despite how it has come about, will revolutionise inter suburban travel in Melbourne. This is what is planned out in Plan Melbourne 2050 - 20 minute neighbourhoods Employment, education and services all within 20 minutes of where you live. A document that DoT had from Development Victoria, but ignored.

My only criticism is Bus and Light Rail networks should be upgraded now to begin to deliver the benefits of SRL while it is under construction. Especially in the inner city were Light Rail is the SRL.

Lockie
Well I for one sure as hell hope you (and the urban planners) are right. Because if not we are going to be looking at one of if not the most expensive White Elephant in Victorian history

Of course the project will take so long to complete that none of the people involved will be around in politics / their jobs long enough to see it completed so there won't be any accountability to be had anyway so Hey-Ho, Let's Go!
BrentonGolding
I very much doubt it to be a white elephant, more people move suburb to suburb than into the city everyday. This is the first step in creating mini cities to take the pressure off the CBD.

As for accountability, it is still there. The project has been broken up into multiple stages. I suspect that it will be 20 -30 years before the project ever reaches the west. Thats all dependent on how the political winds blow.

Locke
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

I very much doubt it to be a white elephant, more people move suburb to suburb than into the city everyday. This is the first step in creating mini cities to take the pressure off the CBD.

As for accountability, it is still there. The project has been broken up into multiple stages. I suspect that it will be 20 -30 years before the project ever reaches the west. Thats all dependent on how the political winds blow.

Locke
Lockie91
Right now, the SRL is only confirmed to go as far the Airport.

MARL is a completely separate entity, as is the electrification to Melton and Wyndham Vale.

A SRL that continues west of the Airport does not need to be decided on for years to come. As long as the Airport station is designed for trains to continue west, nothing else really matters. It'll take another 30-40 years for the west to build up to the point where the SRL makes sense, but it will eventually and it will get built.
  Tii Junior Train Controller

Well the Federal budget comes first and they do often fund a lot of infrastructure in partnership with the states contribution. Hopefully they will pitch in some cash to get the WRP, Geelong plans started, with the Vic budget to follow.
  Tii Junior Train Controller

Well the Federal budget comes first and they do often fund a lot of infrastructure in partnership with the states contribution. Hopefully they will pitch in some cash to get the WRP, Geelong plans started, with the Vic budget to follow.
Tii
Well the Federal budget didn't offer much other than more cash for car parks previously announced and the perpetual ideal of an intermodal terminal somewhere, somehow, whenever. I'm not expecting anything new in this state budget next week now. I'd just settle for bus reform, last week I caught my local bus 553 on a Sunday. My 2 options were the 10:36 and the 12:36. That was it for the day- so unhelpful, so I walked to the station and caught the bus substitution. Over an hour to move 6 km where I picked up a bike and rode home in 30 minutes. Ah the dream of a frequent bus system to get to my nearest tram (2.2km) or train (2.0 km)
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Well the Federal budget comes first and they do often fund a lot of infrastructure in partnership with the states contribution. Hopefully they will pitch in some cash to get the WRP, Geelong plans started, with the Vic budget to follow.
Well the Federal budget didn't offer much other than more cash for car parks previously announced and the perpetual ideal of an intermodal terminal somewhere, somehow, whenever. I'm not expecting anything new in this state budget next week now. I'd just settle for bus reform, last week I caught my local bus 553 on a Sunday. My 2 options were the 10:36 and the 12:36. That was it for the day- so unhelpful, so I walked to the station and caught the bus substitution. Over an hour to move 6 km where I picked up a bike and rode home in 30 minutes. Ah the dream of a frequent bus system to get to my nearest tram (2.2km) or train (2.0 km)
Tii
The federal government offered nothing at all. Of the $4 Billion announced only $400 Million is noted in the 4 year forward estimates. This amount has been allocated to bl00dy station carparks which were a 2019 election commitment.

This is now a common habit with the federal government, promising large sums of money for projects beyond the forward estimates.

Lockie
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Well the Federal budget comes first and they do often fund a lot of infrastructure in partnership with the states contribution. Hopefully they will pitch in some cash to get the WRP, Geelong plans started, with the Vic budget to follow.
Well the Federal budget didn't offer much other than more cash for car parks previously announced and the perpetual ideal of an intermodal terminal somewhere, somehow, whenever. I'm not expecting anything new in this state budget next week now. I'd just settle for bus reform, last week I caught my local bus 553 on a Sunday. My 2 options were the 10:36 and the 12:36. That was it for the day- so unhelpful, so I walked to the station and caught the bus substitution. Over an hour to move 6 km where I picked up a bike and rode home in 30 minutes. Ah the dream of a frequent bus system to get to my nearest tram (2.2km) or train (2.0 km)
The federal government offered nothing at all. Of the $4 Billion announced only $400 Million is noted in the 4 year forward estimates. This amount has been allocated to bl00dy station carparks which were a 2019 election commitment.

This is now a common habit with the federal government, promising large sums of money for projects beyond the forward estimates.

Lockie
Lockie91
The carpark pledge is officially dead now, a broken promise.
  Upven Junior Train Controller

Well the Federal budget comes first and they do often fund a lot of infrastructure in partnership with the states contribution. Hopefully they will pitch in some cash to get the WRP, Geelong plans started, with the Vic budget to follow.
Well the Federal budget didn't offer much other than more cash for car parks previously announced and the perpetual ideal of an intermodal terminal somewhere, somehow, whenever. I'm not expecting anything new in this state budget next week now. I'd just settle for bus reform, last week I caught my local bus 553 on a Sunday. My 2 options were the 10:36 and the 12:36. That was it for the day- so unhelpful, so I walked to the station and caught the bus substitution. Over an hour to move 6 km where I picked up a bike and rode home in 30 minutes. Ah the dream of a frequent bus system to get to my nearest tram (2.2km) or train (2.0 km)
The federal government offered nothing at all. Of the $4 Billion announced only $400 Million is noted in the 4 year forward estimates. This amount has been allocated to bl00dy station carparks which were a 2019 election commitment.

This is now a common habit with the federal government, promising large sums of money for projects beyond the forward estimates.

Lockie
The carpark pledge is officially dead now, a broken promise.
True Believers
Half true, only five of the promised multidecks aren't going ahead.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Big expensive station carparks are a waste of money. Another dumb idea better solved by improving feeder bus services etc.
  Tii Junior Train Controller

Big expensive station carparks are a waste of money. Another dumb idea better solved by improving feeder bus services etc.
Carnot
I totally agree more feeder buses at a sensible frequency would be great and affordable long term. I wrote to my local member, Premier and the various transport ministers about bus reform in my local area and across Melbourne, and that it should be prioritised over new mega $billion projects to make it work with the network changes. An auto acknowledgement, and a local secretary replied changing timetables would lead to 'complaints' from people about timetable changes. I pointed out, I was also complaining about the lack of sensible timetabling and frequency to make the service useable. I don't expect to hear anything or action anymore but I live in hope.
  Tii Junior Train Controller

Looks like its more Xtrap trains, ongoing funding toward regional rail and the Murray Valley Basin project to try and get it working, a revamped Caulfield junction, enhancement to WV and Melton line for 9 car V/Locity sets, patching up old Comeng trains and Older Trams for now. Given the priorities around the state, I didn't expect anything major major this year. Save that for the election in 2022.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Winners

Commuters in Melbourne’s west $93.6 million to enable high capacity trains and nine-car VLocity trains to reach Melton and Wyndham Vale by 2023. This includes cash for platform extensions at Sunshine station to allow for the longer trains that will increase available seating on regional trains to 50 per cent.

People working from home $28 million to be spent on boosting the state’s planning system, including supporting the implementation of Plan Melbourne – a strategy that promotes 20-minute neighbourhoods, which planners say is desperately needed as more people work from home

Motorists Lockdown measures enabled road works to be fast-tracked, with nearly twice as many kilometres of road built with tactile line marking and safety barriers installed than was expected

Losers

Commuters with disabilities While $25.4 million will be spent on improving accessibility on public transport, including $7.6 million to upgrade stops with braille plates and tactile markings, there was no new money for accessible tram stops.

Active transport No major cycling or pedestrian upgrades this year, despite a new government target for 25 per cent of trips to be on foot or bicycle by 2030 under the new Climate Change Strategy.

Light rail An election promise to build light rail between Caulfield railway station and Rowville missed out on funding again. It received only $3 million for planning three years ago.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

"There was no new money for accessible tram stops." Kinda rubbish to be honest with the news reporting. That's why I actually read the details of the state budget. If you look closer there's nothing right this instant, but looks promising. Just look in service delivery page on tram assets and bingo. They could do more, but saying they did nil is misleading, I count 8 accessible tram stops in the pipeline.

Funding is provided for a package of works to deliver accessibility and amenity improvements across the public transport network including:
  • preparation of a public transport accessibility strategy that will set out a pathway for realising universal accessibility across the public transport network;
  • design and development for level-access up grades to seven tram stop pairs critical to tram service reconfigurations after the Metro Tunnel opening;
  • minor accessibility, amenity and safety improvements through the installation of braille plates at 1 200 trams stops; tactile ground surface indicators at 1 027 tram stops; concrete hardstands at 203 tram stops; and better lighting, weather protection and road markings at 42 high-priority tram stops;
  • completion of the Mills Street tram stop upgrade in MiddlePark
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Winners

Commuters in Melbourne’s west $93.6 million to enable high capacity trains and nine-car VLocity trains to reach Melton and Wyndham Vale by 2023. This includes cash for platform extensions at Sunshine station to allow for the longer trains that will increase available seating on regional trains to 50 per cent.
bevans

So as to enable the HCMT's to Wyndham Vale by 2023 suggests some wires are to be installed?
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Winners

Commuters in Melbourne’s west $93.6 million to enable high capacity trains and nine-car VLocity trains to reach Melton and Wyndham Vale by 2023. This includes cash for platform extensions at Sunshine station to allow for the longer trains that will increase available seating on regional trains to 50 per cent.

So as to enable the HCMT's to Wyndham Vale by 2023 suggests some wires are to be installed?
bevans
No it doesn't suggest that at all. Going to need more than 90 Million for that.

Sounds like more prep works being announced, in the lead up to the 2022 election. I suspect that in the lead up the sparking will be announced to roll out post 2025 after MM1 is complete. By this time they will have done everything expect string up wires. Also suggests a new train type is going to be introduced.

Don'y expect to see any more HCMTs beyond the 65. Buying shells from CRRC is a no no now.

Lockie
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

"There was no new money for accessible tram stops." Kinda rubbish to be honest with the news reporting. That's why I actually read the details of the state budget. If you look closer there's nothing right this instant, but looks promising. Just look in service delivery page on tram assets and bingo. They could do more, but saying they did nil is misleading, I count 8 accessible tram stops in the pipeline.


  • preparation of a public transport accessibility strategy that will set out a pathway for realising universal accessibility across the public transport network;
True Believers
Sounds like a 2022 election commitment in the making. Will we see a pledge to invest a billion in the network to begin replacing some 200 trams stops with platforms.

I do understand why it has been put in the too hard basket, the issues the local councils threw up when they did route 96 was ridiculous. The government will want to remove car parks and install bike lanes when they replace a stop in a busy shopping area and the NIBYS are just going to cry fowl.

Lockie
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

"There was no new money for accessible tram stops." Kinda rubbish to be honest with the news reporting. That's why I actually read the details of the state budget. If you look closer there's nothing right this instant, but looks promising. Just look in service delivery page on tram assets and bingo. They could do more, but saying they did nil is misleading, I count 8 accessible tram stops in the pipeline.


  • preparation of a public transport accessibility strategy that will set out a pathway for realising universal accessibility across the public transport network;
Sounds like a 2022 election commitment in the making. Will we see a pledge to invest a billion in the network to begin replacing some 200 trams stops with platforms.

I do understand why it has been put in the too hard basket, the issues the local councils threw up when they did route 96 was ridiculous. The government will want to remove car parks and install bike lanes when they replace a stop in a busy shopping area and the NIBYS are just going to cry fowl.

Lockie
Lockie91
Sounds like it'll be the government's next LXRA type organisation. Now that 50 level crossings will be gone by 2022 (and the program continuing to be on going until all metro crossings are gone), need another program to do a similar thing to the tram network. The Tram Platform Upgrade Authority (TPUA), route by route will upgrade all tram stops to platform level access.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

So as to enable the HCMT's to Wyndham Vale by 2023 suggests some wires are to be installed?
No it doesn't suggest that at all. Going to need more than 90 Million for that.

Sounds like more prep works being announced, in the lead up to the 2022 election. I suspect that in the lead up the sparking will be announced to roll out post 2025 after MM1 is complete. By this time they will have done everything expect string up wires. Also suggests a new train type is going to be introduced.

Don't expect to see any more HCMTs beyond the 65. Buying shells from CRRC is a no no now.

Lockie
Lockie91
HCMTs are confirmed for the Airport rail link, so they're going to expand the order, the contracts allow for tendering for more HCMTs if the Government choses to go ahead with it.

You seem to miss the actual interesting bit, not the 9-car Vlocities investment, there's a separate investment looking into upgrading the line prepping for electrification.

There's a separate 72 million dedicated to upgrading the Wyndham and Melton corridor to enable the future operation of higher capacity trains. I wonder what other rolling-stock shares the name high capacity.... hmmm.

In the lead up to the 2022 election, don't be surprised for a massive expansion of HCMTs ordered.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Not sure why the government just fannies about.  Get a study moving now for electrification to Ballarat with a view for HMCT style services on 20 minute cycle?
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Not sure why the government just fannies about.  Get a study moving now for electrification to Ballarat with a view for HMCT style services on 20 minute cycle?
bevans
Why Ballarat and not Geelong?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Not sure why the government just fannies about.  Get a study moving now for electrification to Ballarat with a view for HMCT style services on 20 minute cycle?
Why Ballarat and not Geelong?
John.Z

John I believe they need to do both.

The patronage out of Ballarat is significant and I wonder just how far behind Geelong it is on an annualised basis?
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
I'd just settle for bus reform, last week I caught my local bus 553 on a Sunday. My 2 options were the 10:36 and the 12:36. That was it for the day- so unhelpful, so I walked to the station and caught the bus substitution. Over an hour to move 6 km where I picked up a bike and rode home in 30 minutes. Ah the dream of a frequent bus system to get to my nearest tram (2.2km) or train (2.0 km)
Tii
Ironic that this is still better than the several offerings at Mooroolbark station on a Sunday, so let's build an enormous carpark here instead.

675: No service
680: No service
689: No service (five minutes from the station on Hull Rd, added here for the sake of it)
TeleBus Area 2: No service
TeleBus Area 3: No service
963 NightRider: Killed off when Night Network became a thing (added here because the NightRider was actually the only bus which ran on a Sunday)

The 553's Sunday timetable is basically the TeleBus Saturday timetable (and to further rub salt in the wound, the 680 doesn't even run on Saturdays).
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Not sure why the government just fannies about.  Get a study moving now for electrification to Ballarat with a view for HMCT style services on 20 minute cycle?
Why Ballarat and not Geelong?

John I believe they need to do both.

The patronage out of Ballarat is significant and I wonder just how far behind Geelong it is on an annualised basis?
bevans

Yeah I still think we should focus on electrifying the urban network first, before considering regional electrifications. A significant portion of the Ballarat line did receive a decent upgrade, it'll need more upgrading to get it on a 20 minutes cycle, adding more passing loops and upgrading bridges along the route. Getting both of these lines are not that cheap when you consider the upgrades needed.

Another thing that is probably more viable in the short term is actually grade separating level crossings on the Ballarat and Geelong corridors. That doesn't sound that attractive as electric trains but is very much important to deliver prior to electrification of those regional corridors.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I think that duplication of the single track sections on the regional corridors should be a prerequisite to electrification, otherwise there's no real benefit to electrifying.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Not sure why the government just fannies about.  Get a study moving now for electrification to Ballarat with a view for HMCT style services on 20 minute cycle?
bevans
They really should be looking at 2 kV then - it would be much cheaper over that long distance. A completely separate interurban system running at a national standard that could eventually connect the capitals.

Shame that Bachelor squibbed on gauge-convertible sleepers, there's large chunks of Victoria forever missing out on being part of the national rail network because of that decision.

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