The corona virus COVID-19

 
  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
100% guys.
Her argument, however she wanted to compare it, was doomed the second she said people might die.
Doesn’t matter if the numbers that might/may die (whichever word she used is the same intent) is comparable OR less to the flu/road toll/ murder whatever.....
The silly twit said people might/may die.
At that very instant, relevant comparison or not, plenty would have though she can go an get stuffed.
Poll results validation of that.

Her opinion is irrelevant anyway, as nobody from here on in will be able to understand a word she’s mumbling, with her foot jammed in her mouth.

Regards

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  davesvline Chief Commissioner

Location: 1983-1998
Just on external travel.....:
The Biosecurity Act go mentioned when declining return travellers from India/intent to fine those flouting etc...
Wonder how long it’ll be before there’s a departure declaration type statement/clause when you go through customs and in this new Covid space there’s a section pertaining to Covid, and if you retuned a positive test that not only can the country you’re in deny you from leaving, airlines can prohibit you boarding AND Australia WILL deny you re entry.   Words to whatever the desired effect of that need be.

Sign the declaration here..... you understand that you MAY be denied re entry into Australia IF Covid positive...

Let’s get this Genie out of the bottle a bit more.

Be interesting to know everyone’s thoughts.... That Biosecurity Act has some heavy stuff in it.

Regards
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Eric Clapton speaks out against the Astra-Zenica vaccine, saying that he feared it was going to permanently maim him at one point - Daily Mail (UK);

Eric Clapton has hit out at 'propaganda' over vaccine safety, claiming he suffered alarming side effects after his Covid jabs.

The legendary guitarist, a lockdown sceptic, said his hands and feet became 'useless' – prompting fears he would never play again.

In a message to his music producer, he said: 'I took the first jab of AZ [AstraZeneca] and straight away had severe reactions which lasted ten days.'

The 76-year-old said he 'recovered eventually' but suffered further 'disastrous reactions' six weeks later after the second shot.

He added: 'My hands and feet were either frozen, numb or burning, and pretty much useless for two weeks, I feared I would never play again...

'I should never have gone near the needle.

'But the propaganda said the vaccine was safe for everyone.'
don_dunstan
Who cares about the opinion of a clapped out rock star.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
In regards to the Virgin CEO, I've had a gutful of taxpayer dollars being used to bail out airlines. It should cease immediately, and if some airlines die, stiff.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
AddTaiwan and Singapore to that list, so how long after an election (if hillsong win) will it take Scroto to try and open the borders?
doyle
No, Singapore are having another lock-down due to another outbreak.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
In regards to the Virgin CEO, I've had a gutful of taxpayer dollars being used to bail out airlines. It should cease immediately, and if some airlines die, stiff.
wobert
Qantas is the worst offender - Alan Joyce currently trying to squeeze more money out of the Commonwealth because the borders won't be opened again by October (which is what we were told last year). Its quite simply a taxpayer rip-off - we don't own the thing any more but we're still on the hook for keeping shareholders and executives paid.

Why?
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

In regards to the Virgin CEO, I've had a gutful of taxpayer dollars being used to bail out airlines. It should cease immediately, and if some airlines die, stiff.
wobert
+1, didn’t qantas use the pandemic as an opportunity to outsource baggage handling?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
In regards to the Virgin CEO, I've had a gutful of taxpayer dollars being used to bail out airlines. It should cease immediately, and if some airlines die, stiff.
Qantas is the worst offender - Alan Joyce currently trying to squeeze more money out of the Commonwealth because the borders won't be opened again by October (which is what we were told last year). Its quite simply a taxpayer rip-off - we don't own the thing any more but we're still on the hook for keeping shareholders and executives paid.

Why?
don_dunstan
We don't own it, but we heavily regulate it and its ability to secure finance externally.

End of the day, Australia needs a viable domestic airline industry. Qantas has proven for decades its generally a sustainable business (domestically) and does what is required to provide air domestic air transport. Virgin was run into the ground by its former owners and hence got nothing. Other industries get govt assistance when times are tough beyond their control. Its the govt (s) that have caused the problems with Qantas by preventing reliable domestic travel  for over a year now.

QF International should have closed years ago, but it was saved and a growth industry thanks to cutting out the BS with staff and alliances OS. Note: QF International CEO was the first to loose their job under CV-19 as Joyce acknowledged QF International will ne grounded for alot longer than originally expected.  

Qantas Snr Exc's all took pay cuts, job losses or worked with no pay during 2020. Shareholders have not had a dividend declared since March 2020 (which was prior to CV-19) delayed until Sept payment 2020 due to CV-19.

Considering the history of the Australian Airline industry, if you seriously think QF lead by Alan Joyce is the worse, then you have lost the plot.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Who are these others?

Maybe the French?  They're in a nationwide lockdown (of sorts) and have a 7pm to 6am nationwide curfew.  IN bed by 7, but at least they arn't under it.  Only 15000 cases yesterday (and now less 200 deaths a day!  Wow).  They hope to re-open their nightclubs in July.

Or the Pomms.  They are coming out of their 4 month lockdown now, down to less than 2000 cases a day there, all because vaccines are working.

Half a million dead Americans.  Thank heavens they did what needed to be done, even though others might suggest that's just a good start.

Pleasant dreams everyone, I'm going back to bed, safe and snug in the worlds largest, safest and best gated community.

@shane, you're still welcome to join us (for now), but as we become more exclusive, you might not be able to afford it for  much longer.  It's not all beer and skittles, and I'm afraid you're just going to have to get over it: if you want to come home you'll have to spend 2 weeks in a luxury hotel at taxpayer's expense.  Ohh, the humanity!  But don't worry, I'm sure there is free cable and all the tissues you can use.
djf01
You can selectively pick out the CV-19 $hit holes, but it doesn't make your case any stronger.

As a starter, UAE, Israel, Maldives, Iceland etc

Clearly you need an education on your own country's border rules
- Hotels are at travelers expense
- They are not luxury hotels

So now that you have completely failed at your sarcastic response, we can get back to reality? Or are you still hiding under the bed?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
AddTaiwan and Singapore to that list, so how long after an election (if hillsong win) will it take Scroto to try and open the borders?

Scotty could use this to his advantage, as fortress Australia is politically quite popular. If Labor are too vocal about "open borders" it could become an election issue. Especially since he hasn't got much else going for him at the moment.
Upven
He's got alot going for him

- Economy one of strongest in the world
- No local transmission of CV-19
- Popularity of 50% or better
- Popularity of the alt PM lower than Donald Trump's.
- Minor hicup's with CV-19 Vax, but by and large mostly external driven and now improving and the roll out continues.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
Who are these others?

Maybe the French?  They're in a nationwide lockdown (of sorts) and have a 7pm to 6am nationwide curfew.  IN bed by 7, but at least they arn't under it.  Only 15000 cases yesterday (and now less 200 deaths a day!  Wow).  They hope to re-open their nightclubs in July.

Or the Pomms.  They are coming out of their 4 month lockdown now, down to less than 2000 cases a day there, all because vaccines are working.

Half a million dead Americans.  Thank heavens they did what needed to be done, even though others might suggest that's just a good start.

Pleasant dreams everyone, I'm going back to bed, safe and snug in the worlds largest, safest and best gated community.

@shane, you're still welcome to join us (for now), but as we become more exclusive, you might not be able to afford it for  much longer.  It's not all beer and skittles, and I'm afraid you're just going to have to get over it: if you want to come home you'll have to spend 2 weeks in a luxury hotel at taxpayer's expense.  Ohh, the humanity!  But don't worry, I'm sure there is free cable and all the tissues you can use.
You can selectively pick out the CV-19 $hit holes, but it doesn't make your case any stronger.

As a starter, UAE, Israel, Maldives, Iceland etc

Clearly you need an education on your own country's border rules
- Hotels are at travelers expense
- They are not luxury hotels

So now that you have completely failed at your sarcastic response, we can get back to reality? Or are you still hiding under the bed?
RTT_Rules
We will open up our country when Herd Immunity is reached I reckon, around 70%-80 of the population, not before.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

AddTaiwan and Singapore to that list, so how long after an election (if hillsong win) will it take Scroto to try and open the borders?

Scotty could use this to his advantage, as fortress Australia is politically quite popular. If Labor are too vocal about "open borders" it could become an election issue. Especially since he hasn't got much else going for him at the moment.
He's got alot going for him

- Economy one of strongest in the world
- No local transmission of CV-19
- Popularity of 50% or better
- Popularity of the alt PM lower than Donald Trump's.
- Minor hicup's with CV-19 Vax, but by and large mostly external driven and now improving and the roll out continues.
RTT_Rules
A few other things he’s got going for him.
Accountability
Integrity
Honesty
Transparency.
But it is the feds election to loose.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
In regards to the Virgin CEO, I've had a gutful of taxpayer dollars being used to bail out airlines. It should cease immediately, and if some airlines die, stiff.
Qantas is the worst offender - Alan Joyce currently trying to squeeze more money out of the Commonwealth because the borders won't be opened again by October (which is what we were told last year). Its quite simply a taxpayer rip-off - we don't own the thing any more but we're still on the hook for keeping shareholders and executives paid.

Why?
We don't own it, but we heavily regulate it and its ability to secure finance externally.

End of the day, Australia needs a viable domestic airline industry. Qantas has proven for decades its generally a sustainable business (domestically) and does what is required to provide air domestic air transport. Virgin was run into the ground by its former owners and hence got nothing. Other industries get govt assistance when times are tough beyond their control. Its the govt (s) that have caused the problems with Qantas by preventing reliable domestic travel  for over a year now.

QF International should have closed years ago, but it was saved and a growth industry thanks to cutting out the BS with staff and alliances OS. Note: QF International CEO was the first to loose their job under CV-19 as Joyce acknowledged QF International will ne grounded for alot longer than originally expected.  

Qantas Snr Exc's all took pay cuts, job losses or worked with no pay during 2020. Shareholders have not had a dividend declared since March 2020 (which was prior to CV-19) delayed until Sept payment 2020 due to CV-19.

Considering the history of the Australian Airline industry, if you seriously think QF lead by Alan Joyce is the worse, then you have lost the plot.
RTT_Rules
You don't do irony do ya
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

You can selectively pick out the CV-19 $hit holes, but it doesn't make your case any stronger.

As a starter, UAE, Israel, Maldives, Iceland etc

Clearly you need an education on your own country's border rules
- Hotels are at travelers expense
- They are not luxury hotels

So now that you have completely failed at your sarcastic response, we can get back to reality? Or are you still hiding under the bed?
RTT_Rules

I don't think I failed at all.  I thought the tissues line might have been a bit much, but you actually recognised my sarcasm, which really is a good start.  Here is another example for you to try ...

I'm only aware of one case where a HQ guest paid for the associated security "services" directly.

As for hiding under the bed, shouldn't that be on the C--- (self censored to preserve my social credit score) Problem thread?

I'll turn the sarcasm off for a moment:

Israel: 6000 Deaths (On Again: An acceptable number, as none of them were ever the CEO of Virgin)
Cases: 800,000  (Very good survival rate)
3 national lockdowns lasting months, not days.

Apart from all the extra months in lock-down, that's a pretty good result by world standards

But Israel are world leaders in vaccination, and vaccination with mRNA.  I don't know why - whether it was good fortune (they got to the head of the queue for the American Vaccines) or good management (they could have done just as well with AZ or a Chinese Vacc had they proved most efficacious in trials) I don't know.

But I do think the Israeli experiment will tell us over the next 6  to 12 months whether mass vaccination with mRNA vaccines delivers the policy outcomes most hope/expect.

Trying to make a long (or even medium) term decision on international borders now is - IMHO - absurd.  The idea we can have a manageable number of deaths is also absurd, no-one in the world has sustained that (except for Australia of course - IIRC we've had more deaths from Vacc than COVID edit: this year).  Vaccines might achieve this, but it's all theory, optimism and conjecture, with as much supporting data as a deranged Railpage thread.

Edit: That was a really really dumb statement on my part.

The point I was trying to make was not vaccines are dangerous, rather that 0 is the only manageable/sustainable level of Covid.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Considering the history of the Australian Airline industry, if you seriously think QF lead by Alan Joyce is the worse, then you have lost the plot.
RTT_Rules
Where did I say that?
End of the day, Australia needs a viable domestic airline industry.
RTT_Rules
No. Australia needs a PROFITABLE airline industry that can operate without government assistance; it doesn't need to have airlines operating routes of mostly empty planes at taxpayer expense. Taxpayers have already been bled enough by this thing, the last thing we want is yet another industry hanging off government assistance.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Trying to make a long (or even medium) term decision on international borders now is - IMHO - absurd.  The idea we can have a manageable number of deaths is also absurd, no-one in the world has sustained that (except for Australia of course - IIRC we've had more deaths from Vacc than COVID).  Vaccines might achieve this, but it's all theory, optimism and conjecture, with as much supporting data as a deranged Railpage thread.
djf01
No.

2 possible deaths from vaccinations which are yet to be confirmed either way, vs 910 confirmed deaths from COVID-19.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Interesting article from the Spectator UK by Fraser Nelson (you may find a paywall) about how Sweden's strategy toward COVID19 ultimately resulted in the same outcome in the long run - possibly better because their economy didn't suffer like most of Europe's:

You often hear it said that Sweden did badly compared to its neighbours, and that even the Swedish king now repents. But if so, why does it still refuse to lock down - and why does polling show almost three-quarters of Swedes saying that the health authority’s handling of the crisis was either ‘good’ or ‘very good’? I looked at this in my Daily Telegraph column a few weeks ago. Seeing as this is such a contentious (and misrepresented) issue, I thought I'd include some of the data and sources here for those interested.

Sweden's story is more complicates than the UK narrative allows. Here, the Covid debate is often reduced to Covid statistics: number of cases, number of deaths etc. The BBC reads them out every day on the news - but we seldom hear about the economic aspects of the pandemic. The effect on society, schools, unemployment, the public finances and the likely long-term implications of wider economic damage. In rejecting lockdown, Sweden deliberately tolerated higher Covid levels than locked-down countries in the hope of protecting its society and economy. Last year, Sweden's economy (which relies heavily on exports) fell 3 per cent vs 10 per cent for Britain. This isn’t just about money, years of experience of recession shows a clear link between economic downturn and public health: the effects are longer term. Most health economists would agree that a lower economic hit now means a lower excess death hit later.

The UK economy shrunk by 9.9% last calender year while Sweden's only went down by 2.8% But the statistic that really stood out to me was this one:

In spite of three lockdowns, the UK ended up with higher deaths than Sweden On a per capita basis, the UK and Sweden had almost identical Covid death ratios by the end of the first wave (both amongst the worst in Europe, but locking down didn't give Britain much of an advantage over Sweden in stopping deaths). Britain was hit harder in a second wave (still ongoing in Sweden).

So hard lock-downs did nothing to diminish the death rate in the long run - it would seem? Sweden actually did better than the UK and with similar sorts of populations and population densities.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

A female friend my age 57, had the Pfizer just over two weeks ago, had been totally unwell for those two weeks, extremely painful legs aches and pains generally feeling that unwell she almost went back to the hozzie, has only come good today, she is generally healthy, I'm not.

Really having second and third thoughts now, the fam keep telling me don't do it.

(,,..,.,. "" '' ;; use these just in case.)
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Trying to make a long (or even medium) term decision on international borders now is - IMHO - absurd.  The idea we can have a manageable number of deaths is also absurd, no-one in the world has sustained that (except for Australia of course - IIRC we've had more deaths from Vacc than COVID).  Vaccines might achieve this, but it's all theory, optimism and conjecture, with as much supporting data as a deranged Railpage thread.
No.

2 possible deaths from vaccinations which are yet to be confirmed either way, vs 910 confirmed deaths from COVID-19.
justapassenger

Thanks for calling that out.  It's not what I thought I'd written, but stupid none the less.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Vaccination is like wearing a seat belt in the car. There are very odd occasions when you're better off being thrown out before the car is totally crushed . . . very, very odd occasions.
Sensible people play the percentages and wear seat belts. Ditto with vaccinations.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

If thats directed at me thank you
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Considering the history of the Australian Airline industry, if you seriously think QF lead by Alan Joyce is the worse, then you have lost the plot.
Where did I say that?
End of the day, Australia needs a viable domestic airline industry.
No. Australia needs a PROFITABLE airline industry that can operate without government assistance; it doesn't need to have airlines operating routes of mostly empty planes at taxpayer expense. Taxpayers have already been bled enough by this thing, the last thing we want is yet another industry hanging off government assistance.
don_dunstan
1. "Qantas is the worst offender"

2. Qantas is normally profitable, its called a "Global Pandemic", worth a read and stupid Premiers over reacting to at no notice thus making it impossible for people to reliability and confidently book air travel. So remove the stupidity and Qantas and other airlines will again operate profitability.

Once again, Australian Law prevents Qantas, not other airlines being fully off the leash. So with that noose comes a cost.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
A female friend my age 57, had the Pfizer just over two weeks ago, had been totally unwell for those two weeks, extremely painful legs aches and pains generally feeling that unwell she almost went back to the hozzie, has only come good today, she is generally healthy, I'm not.

Really having second and third thoughts now, the fam keep telling me don't do it.

(,,..,.,. "" '' ;; use these just in case.)
doyle
You can walk across the bridge knowing there is a 1/1B chance of it collapsing, or you can swim.

She felt unwell, it happens. Life goes on.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
In regards to the Virgin CEO, I've had a gutful of taxpayer dollars being used to bail out airlines. It should cease immediately, and if some airlines die, stiff.
+1, didn’t qantas use the pandemic as an opportunity to outsource baggage handling?
michaelgm
No, that was always going to happen and happen in rural airports decades ago where the baggage handlers are multi tasked with anything from check-in to cleaner.

The Baggage handlers still have a job, just with a different name on the short. Many of Qantas's support roles like any major business is outsourced, big deal life goes on.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

I don't think I failed at all.  I thought the tissues line might have been a bit much, but you actually recognised my sarcasm, which really is a good start.  Here is another example for you to try ...

I'm only aware of one case where a HQ guest paid for the associated security "services" directly.

As for hiding under the bed, shouldn't that be on the C--- (self censored to preserve my social credit score) Problem thread?

I'll turn the sarcasm off for a moment:

Israel: 6000 Deaths (On Again: An acceptable number, as none of them were ever the CEO of Virgin)
Cases: 800,000  (Very good survival rate)
3 national lockdowns lasting months, not days.

Apart from all the extra months in lock-down, that's a pretty good result by world standards

But Israel are world leaders in vaccination, and vaccination with mRNA.  I don't know why - whether it was good fortune (they got to the head of the queue for the American Vaccines) or good management (they could have done just as well with AZ or a Chinese Vacc had they proved most efficacious in trials) I don't know.

But I do think the Israeli experiment will tell us over the next 6  to 12 months whether mass vaccination with mRNA vaccines delivers the policy outcomes most hope/expect.

Trying to make a long (or even medium) term decision on international borders now is - IMHO - absurd.  The idea we can have a manageable number of deaths is also absurd, no-one in the world has sustained that (except for Australia of course - IIRC we've had more deaths from Vacc than COVID edit: this year).  Vaccines might achieve this, but it's all theory, optimism and conjecture, with as much supporting data as a deranged Railpage thread.

Edit: That was a really really dumb statement on my part.

The point I was trying to make was not vaccines are dangerous, rather that 0 is the only manageable/sustainable level of Covid.
djf01
You think $5000 for two weeks in a hotel for a family of four is normal? the hotels don't need to do any work in the room until the guest leaves. No room service, food is disposable. All normal guest activities such as gym or pool not used, nothing to clean up, even the corridors are lightly used. I just spent 7 nights in a resort in the Maldives island of 150 rooms, all inclusive including activities and paid less than $5000.

Alot harder to prevent transmission when you have a land border and high density living.

Israel got in first and put the big bucks on the table. They paid around $150 per shot.

The results are already obvious with hospitalizations declining with the older generation first as per the roll out. We are now seeing similar benefits here and most of us have Sinopharm as we have around 60% double jabbed.

NZ and other island nations are the same.

While Australia did the right thing for about a year, its now drifted into the world of the paranoid.

Jab the +60's, then once done and I think most are, start opening up in a controlled manner i.e. allow people with WHO endorsed vaccines, or certified recent infection to enter the country with PCR at departure and arrival without HQ.

Oh, FYi Australia just announced that those OS jabbed with AZ or Pfizer can register their jabs on Australian website. Those who got others despite being approved by WHO and having similar benefit as AZ with a lower side effect rating cannot. Where is this all heading? Who knows but the obvious answer being that likely Australia will discriminate based on which vaccine you got.  Based on the evidence presented to WHO this is playing vaccine politics.

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