Narrandera-Tocumwal line

 
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Just going to throw this in here given it is relevant to this.

The $500k study that has been deemed commercial in confidence by TfNSW is soon to be released to the NSW upper house in full after a Shooters Fishers Farmers party motion was passed.  

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Hansard/Pages/HansardResult.aspx#/docid/HANSARD-1820781676-84767

Will be interesting to see the report strategy.

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner

This would seem to be a request for no reason. There is rail at 4 towns nearby that can be used including tocumwal. What is there to achieve by reopening this rail line?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
This would seem to be a request for no reason. There is rail at 4 towns nearby that can be used including tocumwal. What is there to achieve by reopening this rail line?
simstrain
Well, you gotta look at the incentives.

NSW Govt doesnt want to do it because of a) funding and b) the vacuum effect of improved infrastructure redirecting freight volumes to Melbourne where those pesky victorians can benefit from it at the expense of the good people of NSW.

So they do a report to win a by-election but then hide it by having an information session in Wagga (2hrs drive from the area) announced 2 days before the session, and put out a pretty flimsy executive summary that is pretty poor in quality and uses pictures of the worst part of the track to say 'look how bad it is'.  

Yes there are some volumes that are probably confidential, however some of the volumes in it are probably wrong too.  They used the 2016 Strategic Freight Model as the basis which is known to be woefully innacccurate in a range of ways.

At the same time, the NSW Govt has looked at building a line from Wumbulgul across country to somewhere near Barellan to try and divert the MC/CM trains from Riverina to Melbourne to Sydney instead....

Edit 2: Victoria is too focussed on passegner services and has shot itself in the foot with the Murray Basin debacle.  What should be a simple thing (standardisation of BG track) is probably sabotaged from within to fail.  And the feds want Inland Rail to succeed and so are not thinking about anything else.

Edit 1: If it makes economic sense, and the Victorians across the border decide to do a small standardisation project and do it properly (which is possible), no doubt the rail freight viability of the run will cause major mode shift, not just Riverina-Shepparton-Melbourne but also Shepparton-Riverina-Sydney and Shep-Riverina-Queensland.  There are all sorts of truck volumes going out of the region that are rail worthy volumes, however the inftrastructure has never been properly reviewed to know how viable it actually is.
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Just going to throw this in here given it is relevant to this.

The $500k study that has been deemed commercial in confidence by TfNSW is soon to be released to the NSW upper house in full after a Shooters Fishers Farmers party motion was passed.  

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Hansard/Pages/HansardResult.aspx#/docid/HANSARD-1820781676-84767

Will be interesting to see the report strategy.
james.au

What James would be the expected traffic for the line if it were to be reopened?

Is there any value in just converting the extra track to BG and picking up more business that way?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Just going to throw this in here given it is relevant to this.

The $500k study that has been deemed commercial in confidence by TfNSW is soon to be released to the NSW upper house in full after a Shooters Fishers Farmers party motion was passed.  

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Hansard/Pages/HansardResult.aspx#/docid/HANSARD-1820781676-84767

Will be interesting to see the report strategy.

What James would be the expected traffic for the line if it were to be reopened?

Is there any value in just converting the extra track to BG and picking up more business that way?
NSWGR8022
Well, this is what I think would be possible with SG track Griffith-Shepparton-Melbourne:

  • Daily intermodal port service from Griffith to Melbourne with pickups at Toc, Shep, and maybe Narrandera.  Possibly more than daily, 10pw even.  (Note that there is currently 5 or 6 PN trains from the Riverina via Junee per week, though not sure how many actually run of course, and 3 from Toc are in the timetable).  Once you get to daily service, the producers would use it much more easily as the daily service is what gives them reliability in their production.  This would also mean more than one rail operator could enter the market and this would drive cost savings compared to the monopoly position that the LINX/PN train holds right now...
  • Canola shuttle to feed the Graincorp mill at Numurkah
  • Grain (esp corn) up to Brisbane somewhere from Shepparton for food production
  • Intermodal from Shep and Riverina to Sydney and possibly Brisbane
  • Grain exports to Port of Melbourne and Geelong.


The key is that it would connect two areas that produce irrigated crop and by doing so create greater economies of scale for rail transport.

This has drought resilience too.  Pretty well all trains stopped in the drought due to volumes which put pressure on the remaining producers who did have product as they had to pay higher road costs.  

Converting Toc-Griffith to BG would be a retrograde step.  Converting Toc-Mangalore to SG would help reduce rollingstock cost but not to any great extent that would lead to major mode shift.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner


What James would be the expected traffic for the line if it were to be reopened?

Is there any value in just converting the extra track to BG and picking up more business that way?
NSWGR8022

Do not make Dangerdan707 happy by even muttering these words. There is already too much of his favourite gauge in this state. Converting to SG is the way to go and not the other way around. Converting shepparton to SG and building more SG vlo's should be the target and then it makes sense to extend to Narrandera.
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
Just going to throw this in here given it is relevant to this.

The $500k study that has been deemed commercial in confidence by TfNSW is soon to be released to the NSW upper house in full after a Shooters Fishers Farmers party motion was passed.  

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Hansard/Pages/HansardResult.aspx#/docid/HANSARD-1820781676-84767

Will be interesting to see the report strategy.
james.au
The Narrandera to Tocumwal Rail Line Reopening Feasibility Study has apparently still hasn't been presented, due to certain groups claiming it is a privileged document.
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
The Narrandera to Tocumwal Rail Line Reopening Feasibility Study has apparently still hasn't been presented, due to certain groups claiming it is a privileged document.
ARodH
Then why bother? Everyone seems to claim privilege or commercial-in-confidence these days. It doesn't matter which side of politics. It is an easy copout for if they really do or don't want a project to go ahead, they claim privilege or commercial-in-confidence, then say trust us.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Tocumwal is on Broad Gauge so through trains would not be possible.  I would like to see the business case and could we ever see a stage when a Commercial Port operator like Botany would pay for the line and have closed traffic to and from their port facilities?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The Narrandera to Tocumwal Rail Line Reopening Feasibility Study has apparently still hasn't been presented, due to certain groups claiming it is a privileged document.
Then why bother? Everyone seems to claim privilege or commercial-in-confidence these days. It doesn't matter which side of politics. It is an easy copout for if they really do or don't want a project to go ahead, they claim privilege or commercial-in-confidence, then say trust us.
Jack Le Lievre
It's a good cover-all isn't it.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The distance from Tocumwal to port botany is much further than Melbourne making transport costs higher.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
So, the report is set to see the light of public release in August

https://fb.watch/v/1ZWnTC3r4/
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

The distance from Tocumwal to port botany is much further than Melbourne making transport costs higher.
freightgate
Maybe but the distance from Kembla or Newcastle to where this crop is going may not be.

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