The Aussie political economy -

 
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Now your Chinese power price argument has failed, Australia's current power price is on par with inflationary rises since 2008 before RE.
RTT_Rules

We have an average power price that is four times higher than China's cheap coal-fired 8 cents per kw/h. It bears repeating because apparently you still don't understand how much more difficult it makes running a business in this country compared to China.

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  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
How is what I said bigoted?
Meanwhile a born Aussie is a leach on the taxpayer until their mid 20's and then take many more years to repay their cost of upbringing.
Being born here makes an Aussie youth a 'leach'. Whereas migrants who buy residency in this country are somehow productive and wonderful, despite the fact that they've in no way contributed to the generations of physical and social infrastructure that we've built up in this country, like roads and public transport, Medicare, Centrelink etc.
How is that bigoted?

It costs nearly $300k to raise a child and almost everything they do from the day they are born is part funded by the taxpayer. Hospital, medical care, school, public transport etc etc https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-23/kids-eat-into-family-budget-like-never-before/4708076

Assuming they go to Uni or TAFE, they will not be a taxpayer until early - mid 20's and then low income and take a few years to break even. So for the first 1/3 of our lives, the majority of us are a negative contributors to the Australian economy. ie leach!

Sorry if this is a real shock to you!

Meanwhile, import skilled labour in their mid 20's - 30's, which are filtered to ensure not significant health issues and minimum skill sets usually matched to shortages in the market. Their applications to enter the country are cash flow positive for the govt and on arrival have limited access to welfare, generally have lower levels of unemployment. Not surprising that the US Billionaires are disproportionally immigrants or off-spring of immigrants.
RTT_Rules
There are no 'skills shortages' in Australia. At any one time we have more than a million people in this country in tertiary and post-secondary vocational education - there are actually too many people doing post-secondary courses as a proportion of our population. The shortage is in people who are prepared to work in an expensive city like Sydney or Melbourne for $12 an hour. The only people prepared to do that are the ones trying to obtain residency in this country because for a local to do that it would be completely unsustainable - they wouldn't be able to live on that money. But twelve migrants to an apartment makes it possible.

Are you trying to say that children born in this country are a burden? Who will end up paying your free gift to Qantas off over the 33-odd years it will take to pay back? You have a really perverse and bigoted view of the world - you hate people who were born here because you view them as a financial burden, conveniently forgetting the fact that every migrant who comes here will eventually require end-of-life support from the government at a cost of around $320,000-$440,000 per migrant AND that they'll want their elderly parents to come here and die on the Aussie taxpayer's dime at the same kind of cost.

Labor at the last election was going to give away 200,000 aged parent visas @ $5,000 each. That was despite a clear warning from The Productivity Commission in 2016 that every single one of these people was costing the Aussie taxpayer $320,000-$440,000 in Centrelink and Medicare over their life.

The total cost to the Australian taxpayer would have been in the vicinity of $60,000,000,000,000 to $80,000,000,000,000. Yes, that's TRILLIONS. Allowing that to happen would have completely destroyed Centrelink and Medicare as viable schemes for the generations of Australians who paid into those schemes and built them up for us to all enjoy.

They can't be given away to foreigners - especially elderly aging foreigners - or they'll be bankrupted in a heartbeat.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Again, you don't care about how these things are funded or the fact that the government had to borrow money from the Bank of Japan to keep a private airline going - you just want them funded because that's your position.

And again with ragging out on my home - because you don't actually have an argument. You have opinions that aren't actually backed by fact.

Which is fine but then don't have a glass jaw when someone comes along and points out how wrong you are.
But then further up the page you were saying Aussie workers never had it so good. You were boasting about the fact that we had among the highest incomes on earth. Now you're saying that it's too expensive here?

You're all over the place. Have a Bex and a good lie down.
don_dunstan
For freight, the govts of Australia are funding
- TT-line
- Singapore Airlines
- Virgin
- Cathay Pacific
- Pacific National

just as a starter and they are the ones I know of. If you are only just now starting to smeg about the funding received by Qantas, then welcome to the 21st century.

The debt is being funded by keeping the people who work for those industries benefiting from these services in a job. Probably 100,000's of jobs. The alternative is to replace maybe the subsidy with many billions more in welfare.

YOUR position is to drive up unemployment chasing your hatred of Alan Joyce.

Don, your lifestyle in Sth Australia is subsidised by those of us on the East Coast. The purpose for mentioning this is because you seem to think you are funding the govt freight subsidies.

Yes, some of the highest incomes in the world Don, surprise places where incomes are high, cost of living just happens to be high. Now think about why that maybe the case? Umm, let me guess, people actual spending that money to pay people to provide goods and services who surprise, they live there too. Any competition to live in better suburbs driving up housing prices. My point was if this standard of living is unacceptable to you, then make a choice because its not going to ever change, costs will only rise with population.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Now your Chinese power price argument has failed, Australia's current power price is on par with inflationary rises since 2008 before RE.

We have an average power price that is four times higher than China's cheap coal-fired 8 cents per kw/h. It bears repeating because apparently you still don't understand how much more difficult it makes running a business in this country compared to China.
don_dunstan
Time to use your brain Don

Average wage in Australia US$ 3700 /mth
Average wage in China US$ 1040 /mth

Oh gee, I wonder why its more expensive in Australia Don? Why Don!
I've already shown you the industrial price is not cheap, but no, Don just ignores it. Doesn't suit the Narrative!


Contrary to popular belief, electricity in China is already expensive. On average, retail electricity prices in China are only about 15 percent lower than in the United States, and for many Chinese provinces electricity prices are no different from the average U.S. Midwestern state.


and again, here you are going on about subsidies, looky here.  

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-signals-likely-rise-household-electricity-prices-2021-07-01/
the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) pointed out that China's residential users pay relatively low prices for power due to cross-subsidies from commercial and industrial users.

Now, are you going to continue to compare Chinese subsidised domestic power prices also leveraged by the fact their average wage is less than 1/4 of Australia using the same portion of RE as Australia with Australian non-subsidised domestic power prices?

Will you ever in your life actual compare apples with apples or are you going to keep harping on "Narrative according to Don"
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Again, you don't care about how these things are funded or the fact that the government had to borrow money from the Bank of Japan to keep a private airline going - you just want them funded because that's your position.

And again with ragging out on my home - because you don't actually have an argument. You have opinions that aren't actually backed by fact.

Which is fine but then don't have a glass jaw when someone comes along and points out how wrong you are.
But then further up the page you were saying Aussie workers never had it so good. You were boasting about the fact that we had among the highest incomes on earth. Now you're saying that it's too expensive here?

You're all over the place. Have a Bex and a good lie down.
For freight, the govts of Australia are funding
- TT-line
- Singapore Airlines
- Virgin
- Cathay Pacific
- Pacific National

just as a starter and they are the ones I know of. If you are only just now starting to smeg about the funding received by Qantas, then welcome to the 21st century.

The debt is being funded by keeping the people who work for those industries benefiting from these services in a job. Probably 100,000's of jobs. The alternative is to replace maybe the subsidy with many billions more in welfare.

YOUR position is to drive up unemployment chasing your hatred of Alan Joyce.

Don, your lifestyle in Sth Australia is subsidised by those of us on the East Coast. The purpose for mentioning this is because you seem to think you are funding the govt freight subsidies.

Yes, some of the highest incomes in the world Don, surprise places where incomes are high, cost of living just happens to be high. Now think about why that maybe the case? Umm, let me guess, people actual spending that money to pay people to provide goods and services who surprise, they live there too. Any competition to live in better suburbs driving up housing prices. My point was if this standard of living is unacceptable to you, then make a choice because its not going to ever change, costs will only rise with population.
RTT_Rules
I have no hatred of Alan Joyce - link to where I said that. You're just making this up because it goes along with your narrative. Yet another one of your dishonest tactics to try and distract from the fact that you've lost this argument miserably.

Another dishonest claim about who is funding what: It's mostly the Tasmanian government funding TT line, not the Commonwealth. Queensland taxpayers bought an equity stake in Virgin worth $200,000,000, not the Commonwealth. And I haven't heard of any funding arrangement that the Commonwealth has made with foreign national airlines - do you have a link for that? No, of course you don't.

You are NOT a resident of the East Coast, geez, anything at all to try and get at me about the fact that I live in Adelaide. Frankly it's a grub tactic and I'm really disappointed (but not surprised) that you'd sink to that level in order to try and get at me.

Just go away.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Now your Chinese power price argument has failed, Australia's current power price is on par with inflationary rises since 2008 before RE.

We have an average power price that is four times higher than China's cheap coal-fired 8 cents per kw/h. It bears repeating because apparently you still don't understand how much more difficult it makes running a business in this country compared to China.
Time to use your brain Don

Average wage in Australia US$ 3700 /mth
Average wage in China US$ 1040 /mth

Oh gee, I wonder why its more expensive in Australia Don? Why Don!
I've already shown you the industrial price is not cheap, but no, Don just ignores it. Doesn't suit the Narrative!


Contrary to popular belief, electricity in China is already expensive. On average, retail electricity prices in China are only about 15 percent lower than in the United States, and for many Chinese provinces electricity prices are no different from the average U.S. Midwestern state.


and again, here you are going on about subsidies, looky here.  

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-signals-likely-rise-household-electricity-prices-2021-07-01/
the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) pointed out that China's residential users pay relatively low prices for power due to cross-subsidies from commercial and industrial users.

Now, are you going to continue to compare Chinese subsidised domestic power prices also leveraged by the fact their average wage is less than 1/4 of Australia using the same portion of RE as Australia with Australian non-subsidised domestic power prices?

Will you ever in your life actual compare apples with apples or are you going to keep harping on "Narrative according to Don"
RTT_Rules
None of this proves anything - and that link is wrong, China's average retail electricity is 8 cents (US) per kw/h. That's about half the cost of electricity in the USA but almost a quarter the cost of Australian electricity.

Coal is the answer - coal provides cheap electricity. It has nothing to do with the cost of wages - it's about the cost of generation. China is the world's largest consumer of the stuff and it happens to have pretty much the world's cheapest supply of electricity. And yet you're desperately trying to distract from that single fact by saying it has some other cause.

This is yet another one of your failed crusades for green energy which is ALWAYS more expensive that hydrocarbons.

Yet again, you're wrong. And not just a little bit wrong but a LOT wrong.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I have no hatred of Alan Joyce - link to where I said that. You're just making this up because it goes along with your narrative. Yet another one of your dishonest tactics to try and distract from the fact that you've lost this argument miserably.

Another dishonest claim about who is funding what: It's mostly the Tasmanian government funding TT line, not the Commonwealth. Queensland taxpayers bought an equity stake in Virgin worth $200,000,000, not the Commonwealth. And I haven't heard of any funding arrangement that the Commonwealth has made with foreign national airlines - do you have a link for that? No, of course you don't.

You are NOT a resident of the East Coast, geez, anything at all to try and get at me about the fact that I live in Adelaide. Frankly it's a grub tactic and I'm really disappointed (but not surprised) that you'd sink to that level in order to try and get at me.

Just go away.
don_dunstan
You have bitched about him in the past, alot.

Fed Subsidy for TT line under freight equalisation scheme, only been going on for decades.
https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/maritime/tasmanian-transport-schemes/tasmanian/

PM announced in media, ABC and others flights to Asia would continue to be supported by the Feds for the purposes of exporting essential time sensitive produce and importing essential goods including general medical needs including Pfizer. Look hard enough it was in the ABC news on Friday.

Similar comments by SA govt about support of Cathay Pacfic flight to Adelaide only a week before.

I'm a taxpayer to the east coast, which means I have a greater vested interest in the country than you as I'm pay but getting nothing where as in SA, how much was the fed govt hand outs last year and going by your above cluelessness, obviously more in touch than you.

As you clearly have no clue what the #$## is happening in your own country that you live in I'm not going to bother with this any further, may as well talk the wall, I'm out!
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Time to use your brain Don

Average wage in Australia US$ 3700 /mth
Average wage in China US$ 1040 /mth

Oh gee, I wonder why its more expensive in Australia Don? Why Don!
I've already shown you the industrial price is not cheap, but no, Don just ignores it. Doesn't suit the Narrative!


Contrary to popular belief, electricity in China is already expensive. On average, retail electricity prices in China are only about 15 percent lower than in the United States, and for many Chinese provinces electricity prices are no different from the average U.S. Midwestern state.


and again, here you are going on about subsidies, looky here.  

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-signals-likely-rise-household-electricity-prices-2021-07-01/
the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) pointed out that China's residential users pay relatively low prices for power due to cross-subsidies from commercial and industrial users.

Now, are you going to continue to compare Chinese subsidised domestic power prices also leveraged by the fact their average wage is less than 1/4 of Australia using the same portion of RE as Australia with Australian non-subsidised domestic power prices?

Will you ever in your life actual compare apples with apples or are you going to keep harping on "Narrative according to Don"
None of this proves anything - and that link is wrong, China's average retail electricity is 8 cents (US) per kw/h. That's about half the cost of electricity in the USA but almost a quarter the cost of Australian electricity.

Coal is the answer - coal provides cheap electricity. It has nothing to do with the cost of wages - it's about the cost of generation. China is the world's largest consumer of the stuff and it happens to have pretty much the world's cheapest supply of electricity. And yet you're desperately trying to distract from that single fact by saying it has some other cause.

This is yet another one of your failed crusades for green energy which is ALWAYS more expensive that hydrocarbons.

Yet again, you're wrong. And not just a little bit wrong but a LOT wrong.
don_dunstan
What a stupid stupid comment from you Don

You are comparing heavily subsidised power in one country with wages 1/3 that of Australia and then using them as an example of cheap power. Then come back with "Coal is the answer", yet Australia's and china's contribution of coal fired power to the grid is basically the same in % terms.

I've never ever said "green energy which is ALWAYS more expensive that hydrocarbons." and you know that I would know if it were to be true or false.

I've already told you that large industry subsidy the domestic market and shown you that the aluminium price in China is 20% more expensive that non Chinese global LME and you still carry on, again I'd get more commo sense from the wall, I'm out.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
You have bitched about him in the past, alot.

Fed Subsidy for TT line under freight equalisation scheme, only been going on for decades.
https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/maritime/tasmanian-transport-schemes/tasmanian/

PM announced in media, ABC and others flights to Asia would continue to be supported by the Feds for the purposes of exporting essential time sensitive produce and importing essential goods including general medical needs including Pfizer. Look hard enough it was in the ABC news on Friday.

Similar comments by SA govt about support of Cathay Pacfic flight to Adelaide only a week before.

I'm a taxpayer to the east coast, which means I have a greater vested interest in the country than you as I'm pay but getting nothing where as in SA, how much was the fed govt hand outs last year and going by your above cluelessness, obviously more in touch than you.

As you clearly have no clue what the #$## is happening in your own country that you live in I'm not going to bother with this any further, may as well talk the wall, I'm out!
RTT_Rules
Alright maybe I've been a bit rude to you - but don't drag my choice to live in this great city into it. Everything in life in about compromise and making choices about where you go and what you do. I don't regret my decision to move back here on iota, it's a vastly superior lifestyle to the one that I had in Melbourne (despite the fact that I spent the last seven years there in a really desirable locale).

So you've got no right to deride my decision just because you're trying to score points off me in some vainglorious crusade you have for Qantas and the insane idea that Commonwealth taxpayers should be saving it with 'free' money. I will continue to tell you off like a naughty child if you drag that into it.

Alan Joyce is no different from any other long list of CEO's in Australia who put their collective hands up for 'free' money - you didn't see Gerry Harvey or Solomon Lew giving back their fabulous financial gains from not paying rent during the pandemic AND having their staff paid for by the government - win/win. Who do you know out of ANY of those CEO's who admitted that they'd had a big win at the taxpayer's borrowed money expense and decided to give back one red cent of any of that windfall?

And I'm sorry but the fact that you don't live here - and haven't lived here for many years - kind of deals you out of the loop on many things, that's the simple truth. You made the obvious mistake of claiming to be a resident of the east coast and seriously expected me to not pull you up on that?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Treasury's 21-22 Budget has forecast no real wage rises for Australians for many years; now some further analysis says that due to superannuation costs and a lessening demand for labour that real wages will actually shrink for the average Aussie household - from the Herald-Sun (paywall):

An average family will be hit by a real wage fall of $21,000 over the next four years. An analysis of May’s budget papers has found the federal government expects real wages for an average Australian family to fall that much over that time.

The article goes on to point out that Treasury says we will not see any real rises in wages unless unemployment falls to four percent and below; which paints a picture kinda diametrically opposed to those people who say we need to fill 'skills shortages' urgently.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line

there's an established cabal of people here determined to paint me as some kind of crank. Burn the lot of you!
don_dunstan

I couldn't have said it any more accurately.

I come back to this thread every few days for a quick overview. The rep from SA would do us all a favour if he would perform a ZH or a Ninthnotch.

Mike.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud

there's an established cabal of people here determined to paint me as some kind of crank. Burn the lot of you!
I couldn't have said it any more accurately.

I come back to this thread every few days for a quick overview. The rep from SA would do us all a favour if he would perform a ZH or a Ninthnotch.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Such kind words from you, Mike. ZH, yeah he sure had you picked as a whiny old battleaxe didn't he.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The rep from SA would do us all a favour if he would perform a ZH or a Ninthnotch.
The Vinelander
Only if you do a Joan of Arc or a Saint Sebastian for me.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Putin approves a strategy to keep the West out of Russian life and says that the US hegemony is over - Deutsche Welle:

The era of global American rule is coming to an end while Russia’s military strength and influence are rising, Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a speech on Wednesday.

Mr Putin made the comments during an annual event in which he answers questions from ordinary Russians.

Referencing the recent summit between himself and US President Joe Biden, Mr Putin portrayed the US as a power on the wane.

“The world is changing dramatically,” he said. “On the one hand, our partners in the United States understand this, therefore there was a meeting in Geneva. On the other hand, they are trying at all costs to maintain their monopoly position.”

Putin was reported to have been laughing on the way out of the meeting with Biden in Geneva - obviously he thinks he's no threat to imperialist Russia.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

A close relo was employed by a business that went into administration and a couple of days latter, receivership. This was mid 2012.
A fee schedule was provided, at the time by the receiver the lowest paid clerk was charged @ $150 p/h. It only increased from there.
Much Correspondence has been posted in the ensuing period. Lots of work behind the scenes. Now nine years latter, a claim for unpaid super has been accepted. Ok, but not particularly substantial in value.
Intrigued to know how much value of dispersed assets have been chewed up by the process.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
The rep from SA would do us all a favour if he would perform a ZH or a Ninthnotch.
Only if you do a Joan of Arc or a Saint Sebastian for me.
don_dunstan

I must have touched a nerve...two replies to my comment. Was worth popping in to see. Smile

M.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The rep from SA would do us all a favour if he would perform a ZH or a Ninthnotch.
Only if you do a Joan of Arc or a Saint Sebastian for me.

I must have touched a nerve...two replies to my comment. Was worth popping in to see. Smile

M.
The Vinelander
Well it was the second reading that really revealed the desperate cry for attention and wanting to be martyred in some way.

That's why you love me so much, my insightful psychoanalysis of your underlying neurosis.

Why else do you keep coming back to me like doe-eyed puppy you are.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Face it, Mike, I'm your personal L. Ron Hubbard.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Don’t reckon Morrison has been vaccinated. When ever there a smeg up, he goes into isolation. Not made a public comment for five days
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
A close relo was employed by a business that went into administration and a couple of days latter, receivership. This was mid 2012.
A fee schedule was provided, at the time by the receiver the lowest paid clerk was charged @ $150 p/h. It only increased from there.
Much Correspondence has been posted in the ensuing period. Lots of work behind the scenes. Now nine years latter, a claim for unpaid super has been accepted. Ok, but not particularly substantial in value.
Intrigued to know how much value of dispersed assets have been chewed up by the process.
michaelgm
A lady at work used to work for one of our (now) clients. He went bankrupt back then dragging six months worth of staff superannuation with him.

She ignores him when he walks past - can't say I blame her.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The Commonwealth Bank is warning that interest rates will rise by the end of next year - and that these very modest rises will cause extreme mortgage stress - ABC;

The Commonwealth Bank's head of Australian economics, Gareth Aird, is forecasting the first move higher in the RBA's cash rate in more than a decade to take place within 18 months.

"Our central scenario has the RBA delivering the first hike in the cash rate in November 2022," he wrote in a note.

"We have pencilled in an increase of 15 basis points, which would take the cash rate to 0.25 per cent.

"We expect that to be followed by an increase of 25 basis points in December 2022. We have three further 25-basis-point hikes in Q1 23, Q2 23 and Q3 23 [the first, second and third quarters of 2023]."...

...If passed on directly to variable mortgage rates, a 1.15-percentage-point rise in the cash rate would take the typical owner-occupier mortgage rate from 3.10 to 4.25 per cent and the average investor rate from 3.44 to 4.59 per cent.

On a $500,000 mortgage, that rate increase would result in a $324 per month increase in repayments.

Someone should tell the young (especially) that mortgage rates were once 17% and people simply had to cope. It's not out of the question that they could become at least 6% again within a short period of time - but apparently that would bankrupt a lot of people in Sydney and Melbourne with half a million plus in mortgage debt.

The Bank of International Settlements recently pointed out the same thing about Australian sovereign debt - if interest rates normalised to around 6 or 7 percent as they were 20 or so years ago then the Australian government would be in real trouble trying to pay off what they've borrowed - the debt load would become unserviceable.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Chuckles.

  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
One for the economists and cyclists here on RP :
General Director of Euro Exim Bank Ltd. got economists thinking when he said:

A cyclist is a disaster for the country's economy:
  • He does not buy cars and does not borrow money to buy.
  • He does not pay for insurance policies.
  • He does not buy fuel, does not pay for the necessary maintenance and repairs.
  • He does not use paid parking.
  • He does not cause serious accidents.
  • He does not require multi-lane highways.
  • He does not get fat.
Healthy people are neither needed nor useful for the economy:
  • They don't buy medicine.
  • They do not go to hospitals or doctors. Nothing is added to the country's GDP (gross domestic product).
  • Every new McDonalds, on the other hand:
  • Creates at least 30 jobs, 10 cardiologists, 10 dentists, 10 dietary experts and nutritionists plus the people who work at the restaurant itself.
Choose carefully: cyclist or McDonald's? It is worth considering.

P.S. Walking is even worse. Pedestrians don't even buy bicycles.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
Someone should tell the young (especially) that mortgage rates were once 17% and people simply had to cope.
don_dunstan
I remember paying 18% at one stage (early '90s IIRC). Of course they have the option of discharging (is that the right word?) the mortgage before rates get too high...
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Another good article from the New Daily

https://thenewdaily.com.au/opinion/2021/07/13/sydney-outbreak-vaccines-morrison/

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