Finally a bus plan too integrate with other PT in Victoria and Melbourne

 
  Tii Junior Train Controller

https://transport.vic.gov.au/getting-around/public-transport/buses

Finally a plan that is forward looking to work with Rail reform and other PT changes. Rail is great but without reform to the other modes that link to it, we are going nowhere fast (pun intended). Bring it on for a world class system by 2025.

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  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

https://transport.vic.gov.au/getting-around/public-transport/buses

Finally a plan that is forward looking to work with Rail reform and other PT changes. Rail is great but without reform to the other modes that link to it, we are going nowhere fast (pun intended). Bring it on for a world class system by 2025.
Tii
This was announced a month ago. Looking forward to seeing the finer details. From first train to last (with connections), should always be a bus nearby.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Does this mean that my local bus will no longer be timed to depart at the same time as the 'connecting' train arrives leaving passengers 40 minutes to wait for the sake of a couple of minutes to make the connection.

I don't care what they propose until or unless Metro runs on time to the minute nothing will work.
  Tii Junior Train Controller

Does this mean that my local bus will no longer be timed to depart at the same time as the 'connecting' train arrives leaving passengers 40 minutes to wait for the sake of a couple of minutes to make the connection.

I don't care what they propose until or unless Metro runs on time to the minute nothing will work.
YM-Mundrabilla
I agree with all of you. Until they run later, match sensibly to train timetables (pending their reform), at a reliable interval and have some more sensible pathways, it will be useless and patronage will remain low. It might just be another document that may never get implemented, but the can do approach of this government and there commitments they have shown so far in relation to rail might see it happen and continue before they are turfed out. I live in one of these lousy bus areas where trains/buses don't match and connect poorly after 7 pm, so I'm all for some sort of plan.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
You never know how this will work out. If I recall correctly, over a long life I have heard this scheme put up at least three times. It seems to have failed (or never started) every time, so I am not sanguine as to the chances on this attempt.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

You never know how this will work out. If I recall correctly, over a long life I have heard this scheme put up at least three times. It seems to have failed (or never started) every time, so I am not sanguine as to the chances on this attempt.
Valvegear

Didn't this kind of scheme got us the smartbus network? If so that seem to be a success not so much of a failure. Didn't the smartbus network boost the bus network patronage?

There are also been some successful bus reforms in Wyndham, Geelong and other locations, if they co-ordinated this across all Melbourne, I would see a massive increase in bus usage in Melbourne.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Does this mean that my local bus will no longer be timed to depart at the same time as the 'connecting' train arrives leaving passengers 40 minutes to wait for the sake of a couple of minutes to make the connection.

I don't care what they propose until or unless Metro runs on time to the minute nothing will work.
YM-Mundrabilla
Yep, I just love how the so-called "Smart" bus 901 departs Ringwood station towards Knox at 05:42 while the first Lilydale train from Flinders Street pulls in at 05:43 leaving a 29 minute wait. The only difference between a SmartBus route and a non-SmartBus route are the digital signs inside the buses, and the LED signs themselves look state of the art for 1992. The 220 and 246 run rings around the SmartBus services (especially on Sunday nights where SmartBuses don't run after 9PM - you're stuffed if you don't have a train in the outer suburbs e.g. Doncaster, Knox/Wantirna, Rowville etc.) yet they don't have any of the bells and whistles.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Why the F is the bus plan nothing but a glorified sales brochure, and solely in PDF format as well? No-one besides the asre-backward government prints things this side of the year 2000. When will we have a government website reform in Australia?
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

The list of routes has been released that's getting the 24/7 treatment.

Just wanted to say how disappointed I am that the Route 900 bus is being truncated, there will no longer be an all night service along princes highway between caulfield and oakleigh.

  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
I'd be more shocked at the complete lack of the 902 on Springvale Rd over truncating a bus which duplicates the Pakenham/Cranbourne lines. The only transport the north-south Springvale Rd will get after midnight are all east-west services, the 907, the 75 tram, and three train lines spaced several kilometres apart.

Speaking of the 75 tram, it looks like there is no Knox Transit Link provided so there's a three kilometre walk from Vermont South to Knox (better known after 6PM as Wantirna South, since Westfield Knox has the typically hopeless trading hours of every other shopping centre) for those who thought they might be able to get the bus like every other time because the government has refused to build the tram line it has promised to do since forever.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
You never know how this will work out. If I recall correctly, over a long life I have heard this scheme put up at least three times. It seems to have failed (or never started) every time, so I am not sanguine as to the chances on this attempt.

Didn't this kind of scheme got us the smartbus network? If so that seem to be a success not so much of a failure. Didn't the smartbus network boost the bus network patronage?

There are also been some successful bus reforms in Wyndham, Geelong and other locations, if they co-ordinated this across all Melbourne, I would see a massive increase in bus usage in Melbourne.
True Believers
Didn't this kind of scheme got us the smartbus network? If so that seem to be a success not so much of a failure. Didn't the smartbus network boost the bus network patronage?

Yes it did, so. The SmartBus was Introduced when the Bus Network was dying on its ar$e. The improvements are from a very low base.

There are also been some successful bus reforms in Wyndham, Geelong and other locations, if they co-ordinated this across all Melbourne, I would see a massive increase in bus usage in Melbourne.

And It will take forever. Undertaking Bus Reforms one LGA at a time is not the quickest way to elicit reform city wide.

This is just tinkering at the edges. $74 Million over 5 years when they are splurging $20 Billion on NE link, $10 Billion for the Airport Line, $15 Billion for Melbourne Metro, etc., etc. The Bus Stock used in Melbourne for the most part is woeful. Most routes end at 9pm and run every 30 mins on weekdays and hourly weekends and there are just too many Bus Operators within Melbourne.  There are 11 Operators serving London which had 2.09 Billion passenger journeys in 2019/20. Melbourne has 15 Operators for which in 2017-18 had 118 Million Trips.

And Bus Reform for 2021-23 is for 19 or so Daytime bus routes to be 24 hour on weekends and timetable changes for Transdev routes only from September.

Which amounts to not much at all.

Michael
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
The bus routes that existed before SmartBus were absolutely rubbish. The 665 Ringwood-Knox-Dandenong (Invicta) used to finish at about 6PM, the 700 Box Hill-Mordialloc (Ventura) was just as bad, the 888/889 Nunawading-Chelsea twins (Grenda's) were infrequent and IIRC didn't run on Sundays (walked from Nunawading station to Forest Hill Chase way too many times), the 305/306/307 etc. Doncaster-Eastern Freeway-City buses (National) were mainly peak-only...
  Tii Junior Train Controller

It's awful service really- the whole thing needs to be taken over and run at a state level everywhere to integrate properly and have faster routes. It's almost 2022 and still a lot of rubbish. I asked the department about their plans in the north and got a bog standard reply of we are 'investing in improvements etc"
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

It's awful service really- the whole thing needs to be taken over and run at a state level everywhere to integrate properly and have faster routes. It's almost 2022 and still a lot of rubbish. I asked the department about their plans in the north and got a bog standard reply of we are 'investing in improvements etc"
Tii
Plenty of privately run busses are done well, Buenos Aires is a great example. Bus companies here only do what they're contracted to do, same as the train and tram companies.

What's needed is an increase in operating expenditure.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I'd be more shocked at the complete lack of the 902 on Springvale Rd over truncating a bus which duplicates the Pakenham/Cranbourne lines. The only transport the north-south Springvale Rd will get after midnight are all east-west services, the 907, the 75 tram, and three train lines spaced several kilometres apart.

Speaking of the 75 tram, it looks like there is no Knox Transit Link provided so there's a three kilometre walk from Vermont South to Knox (better known after 6PM as Wantirna South, since Westfield Knox has the typically hopeless trading hours of every other shopping centre) for those who thought they might be able to get the bus like every other time because the government has refused to build the tram line it has promised to do since forever.
Heihachi_73
As I recall the reason given is that it would make a nearly two hour tram trip from end-to-end.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

A bus connection doesn't make it any shorter.  People have the general impression that a tram service is more reliable than that of a bus.  I predict there will be a significant patronage increase with a tram extension to Knox.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
It's awful service really- the whole thing needs to be taken over and run at a state level everywhere to integrate properly and have faster routes. It's almost 2022 and still a lot of rubbish. I asked the department about their plans in the north and got a bog standard reply of we are 'investing in improvements etc"
Plenty of privately run busses are done well, Buenos Aires is a great example. Bus companies here only do what they're contracted to do, same as the train and tram companies.

What's needed is an increase in operating expenditure.
John.Z
Yes London is also, but it depends on the the Privatized model. In Melbourne the services are contracted to the State however all the state does is give the bus companies a fixed amount for the mileage they run. That's why Melbourne's Bus network in the main is absolute rubbish. The worst of all of the capital cities in Australia. And I include Hobart. Their system is far superior to Melbourne's.

In London Bus Patronage has soared. The Privatized Bus companies answer to TfL London Buses, who sets the fares and the timetables. And monitor the quality and age of the buses. Melbourne should be aiming for this model.

On the other hand completely deregulated Bus Networks outside the capital have been a disaster with poor frequencies and in many cases suburbs not being served at all.


Michael
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Probably explains why things like the 285, 673 and 745 exist.
  Tii Junior Train Controller

It's awful service really- the whole thing needs to be taken over and run at a state level everywhere to integrate properly and have faster routes. It's almost 2022 and still a lot of rubbish. I asked the department about their plans in the north and got a bog standard reply of we are 'investing in improvements etc"
Plenty of privately run busses are done well, Buenos Aires is a great example. Bus companies here only do what they're contracted to do, same as the train and tram companies.

What's needed is an increase in operating expenditure.
Yes London is also, but it depends on the the Privatized model. In Melbourne the services are contracted to the State however all the state does is give the bus companies a fixed amount for the mileage they run. That's why Melbourne's Bus network in the main is absolute rubbish. The worst of all of the capital cities in Australia. And I include Hobart. Their system is far superior to Melbourne's.

In London Bus Patronage has soared. The Privatized Bus companies answer to TfL London Buses, who sets the fares and the timetables. And monitor the quality and age of the buses. Melbourne should be aiming for this model.

On the other hand completely deregulated Bus Networks outside the capital have been a disaster with poor frequencies and in many cases suburbs not being served at all.


Michael
mejhammers1
If the bus companies set their own timetables according to their whims, no wonder it doesn't coordinate with trains or actually go anywhere useful on some routes. Reservoir region is a case in point as has been covered elsewhere.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
It's awful service really- the whole thing needs to be taken over and run at a state level everywhere to integrate properly and have faster routes. It's almost 2022 and still a lot of rubbish. I asked the department about their plans in the north and got a bog standard reply of we are 'investing in improvements etc"
Plenty of privately run busses are done well, Buenos Aires is a great example. Bus companies here only do what they're contracted to do, same as the train and tram companies.

What's needed is an increase in operating expenditure.
Yes London is also, but it depends on the the Privatized model. In Melbourne the services are contracted to the State however all the state does is give the bus companies a fixed amount for the mileage they run. That's why Melbourne's Bus network in the main is absolute rubbish. The worst of all of the capital cities in Australia. And I include Hobart. Their system is far superior to Melbourne's.

In London Bus Patronage has soared. The Privatized Bus companies answer to TfL London Buses, who sets the fares and the timetables. And monitor the quality and age of the buses. Melbourne should be aiming for this model.

On the other hand completely deregulated Bus Networks outside the capital have been a disaster with poor frequencies and in many cases suburbs not being served at all.


Michael
If the bus companies set their own timetables according to their whims, no wonder it doesn't coordinate with trains or actually go anywhere useful on some routes. Reservoir region is a case in point as has been covered elsewhere.
Tii
Exactly. Melbourne's Bus Network is an absolute disgrace. Most Bus routes run infrequently, a lot of Buses are in awful condition and of the routes are really circuitous, in some cases taking 30 mins for a 3km journey. The State Government can find $5 Billion for a branch line to the Airport and yet finds just $74 Million for the entire Melbourne Bus Network.

They are not serious at all.


Michael

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