This railway is synonymous with Tassie's west coast, and now there's a push to have it heritage listed

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 03 Aug 2021 07:19
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Reading this article I was surprised personally this railway was NOT already listed.

This railway is synonymous with Tassie's west coast, and now there's a push to have it heritage listed

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  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
A good idea. It would be a shame to see the line close again if it wasn't heritage listed.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Minor gaff in the article but certainly anything that helps keep it operating for the longterm is worth supporting

The trains pass through steep sections, over old timber bridges, and use a rack and pinion system — the only one in the southern hemisphere. No its not, its not even the only one in Australia, however it maybe the only steam rack railway in operation in the south hemisphere.
I lived in Queenstown for 2 years up until Dec 1997, was a member and paid donations to a railway project I seriously thought would never see the light of day and if so it would be just a limited operation from the outskirts of town to the Qtr mile bridge which was basically a few stumps and twisted rails at that point.  There were numerous issues with getting the project up and running and money was only part of it.

1) Locos, only 4 survived, Queenstown, Zeehan and cannot remember where the others were but all out of service for over 35 years and pushing 100 years old. Was this to be another Dubs 8 project?

2) Access to Queenstown station was blocked by the Supermarket, which magically burnt down not long after I left.

3) The ROW through the forest and along the King River was in use by others including bush walkers, would they agree to loosing access.

4) Carriages were at Puffy Billy and 6mths before I left I rode PB and the guy told me, " we just fixed them up, if they think they are getting them back they need to think again".

5) Steel girder bridge over King River was still standing but had not long been sign posted as not suited for vehicles due to extensive corrision and there was a wet river crossing along side.

Where was all these millions to come from? Glad to see it actually came through.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Minor gaff in the article but certainly anything that helps keep it operating for the longterm is worth supporting

The trains pass through steep sections, over old timber bridges, and use a rack and pinion system — the only one in the southern hemisphere. No its not, its not even the only one in Australia, however it maybe the only steam rack railway in operation in the south hemisphere.
I lived in Queenstown for 2 years up until Dec 1997, was a member and paid donations to a railway project I seriously thought would never see the light of day and if so it would be just a limited operation from the outskirts of town to the Qtr mile bridge which was basically a few stumps and twisted rails at that point.  There were numerous issues with getting the project up and running and money was only part of it.

1) Locos, only 4 survived, Queenstown, Zeehan and cannot remember where the others were but all out of service for over 35 years and pushing 100 years old. Was this to be another Dubs 8 project?

2) Access to Queenstown station was blocked by the Supermarket, which magically burnt down not long after I left.

3) The ROW through the forest and along the King River was in use by others including bush walkers, would they agree to loosing access.

4) Carriages were at Puffy Billy and 6mths before I left I rode PB and the guy told me, " we just fixed them up, if they think they are getting them back they need to think again".

5) Steel girder bridge over King River was still standing but had not long been sign posted as not suited for vehicles due to extensive corrision and there was a wet river crossing along side.

Where was all these millions to come from? Glad to see it actually came through.
RTT_Rules
A Few points

1) 4/5 locos surviving is pretty good, especially for a role so unique. 1 of the 4 surviving locos was of the same design albeit built in the 1930s (No.5). The other that survived were at the Tasmanian transport museum and Puffing Billy's Menzies Creek museum. They all got pretty extensively rebuilt before going back into service, New Boilers and tanks on all of them, Re-Tired, New Cylinders ect.

5) The Bridge was refurbished and its still in use today. Pretty sure its the only original one still in use on the line.

The money for the rebuilding came from the federal and state government, considering that region was pretty dead economically at the time. A fair bit of it was done on the cheep, with sleepers and rail mostly coming secondhand from the North East Line beyond scottsdale. The Doc below is the most comprehensive one in the rebuild I'm aware of.

https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.au/system/files/engineering-heritage-australia/nomination-title/HRP.West%20coast%20Wilderness%20Railway.Tasmania.Nomination%20Volume%201.V7.August%202015.pdf
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Minor gaff in the article but certainly anything that helps keep it operating for the longterm is worth supporting

The trains pass through steep sections, over old timber bridges, and use a rack and pinion system — the only one in the southern hemisphere. No its not, its not even the only one in Australia, however it maybe the only steam rack railway in operation in the south hemisphere.
I lived in Queenstown for 2 years up until Dec 1997, was a member and paid donations to a railway project I seriously thought would never see the light of day and if so it would be just a limited operation from the outskirts of town to the Qtr mile bridge which was basically a few stumps and twisted rails at that point.  There were numerous issues with getting the project up and running and money was only part of it.

1) Locos, only 4 survived, Queenstown, Zeehan and cannot remember where the others were but all out of service for over 35 years and pushing 100 years old. Was this to be another Dubs 8 project?

2) Access to Queenstown station was blocked by the Supermarket, which magically burnt down not long after I left.

3) The ROW through the forest and along the King River was in use by others including bush walkers, would they agree to loosing access.

4) Carriages were at Puffy Billy and 6mths before I left I rode PB and the guy told me, " we just fixed them up, if they think they are getting them back they need to think again".

5) Steel girder bridge over King River was still standing but had not long been sign posted as not suited for vehicles due to extensive corrision and there was a wet river crossing along side.

Where was all these millions to come from? Glad to see it actually came through.
A Few points

1) 4/5 locos surviving is pretty good, especially for a role so unique. 1 of the 4 surviving locos was of the same design albeit built in the 1930s (No.5). The other that survived were at the Tasmanian transport museum and Puffing Billy's Menzies Creek museum. They all got pretty extensively rebuilt before going back into service, New Boilers and tanks on all of them, Re-Tired, New Cylinders ect.

5) The Bridge was refurbished and its still in use today. Pretty sure its the only original one still in use on the line.

The money for the rebuilding came from the federal and state government, considering that region was pretty dead economically at the time. A fair bit of it was done on the cheep, with sleepers and rail mostly coming secondhand from the North East Line beyond scottsdale. The Doc below is the most comprehensive one in the rebuild I'm aware of.

https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.au/system/files/engineering-heritage-australia/nomination-title/HRP.West%20coast%20Wilderness%20Railway.Tasmania.Nomination%20Volume%201.V7.August%202015.pdf
Dangersdan707
Thanks for sharing.

My comment refering to the locos was not just their age but overall condition. These locos were out of service longer than the total age of many steamers restored to operation. Anyway good to see that all four were eventually restored. Very few steamers of that age are actually restored to regular operation standard and going by your comments its likely more of the loco is actually new than original. Dubs 8 is a good indication of how some older steamers are just not easily restored to regular reliable operation, at least the Abt locos were stored undercover for most of their non-operational lives, a significant step up than a beach side park. Its also note worthy that a number of former steamers placed on display in parks around the country have in recent years being removed and many like the ones formly in Gladstone Qld and Launceston park facing the gas axe due to their deterioting condition.

Yes I understand the steel girder bridge was extensively repaired. I wish I had photos of its condition in 1997, there was large corrision holes in the beams all over it, hence why medium and heavy vehicle access was banned in the years before and warning signs for lighter 4x4's.

The issue facing the original group was that large transit population of the west coast. Of the longterm residents, many retire away from the west coast, their children don't return etc. So hard to get a huge amount of local support compared to other locations. Queenstown had a growing issue of abandoned houses that were in a state of disrepair so the local council was simply knocking them down after X many years of rates not being paid. Any house that was transportable was often taken away by owners for use in Strahan or sold to other parts of the state.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Minor gaff in the article but certainly anything that helps keep it operating for the longterm is worth supporting

The trains pass through steep sections, over old timber bridges, and use a rack and pinion system — the only one in the southern hemisphere. No its not, its not even the only one in Australia, however it maybe the only steam rack railway in operation in the south hemisphere.
I lived in Queenstown for 2 years up until Dec 1997, was a member and paid donations to a railway project I seriously thought would never see the light of day and if so it would be just a limited operation from the outskirts of town to the Qtr mile bridge which was basically a few stumps and twisted rails at that point.  There were numerous issues with getting the project up and running and money was only part of it.

1) Locos, only 4 survived, Queenstown, Zeehan and cannot remember where the others were but all out of service for over 35 years and pushing 100 years old. Was this to be another Dubs 8 project?

2) Access to Queenstown station was blocked by the Supermarket, which magically burnt down not long after I left.

3) The ROW through the forest and along the King River was in use by others including bush walkers, would they agree to loosing access.

4) Carriages were at Puffy Billy and 6mths before I left I rode PB and the guy told me, " we just fixed them up, if they think they are getting them back they need to think again".

5) Steel girder bridge over King River was still standing but had not long been sign posted as not suited for vehicles due to extensive corrision and there was a wet river crossing along side.

Where was all these millions to come from? Glad to see it actually came through.
A Few points

1) 4/5 locos surviving is pretty good, especially for a role so unique. 1 of the 4 surviving locos was of the same design albeit built in the 1930s (No.5). The other that survived were at the Tasmanian transport museum and Puffing Billy's Menzies Creek museum. They all got pretty extensively rebuilt before going back into service, New Boilers and tanks on all of them, Re-Tired, New Cylinders ect.

5) The Bridge was refurbished and its still in use today. Pretty sure its the only original one still in use on the line.

The money for the rebuilding came from the federal and state government, considering that region was pretty dead economically at the time. A fair bit of it was done on the cheep, with sleepers and rail mostly coming secondhand from the North East Line beyond scottsdale. The Doc below is the most comprehensive one in the rebuild I'm aware of.

https://portal.engineersaustralia.org.au/system/files/engineering-heritage-australia/nomination-title/HRP.West%20coast%20Wilderness%20Railway.Tasmania.Nomination%20Volume%201.V7.August%202015.pdf
Thanks for sharing.

My comment refering to the locos was not just their age but overall condition. These locos were out of service longer than the total age of many steamers restored to operation. Anyway good to see that all four were eventually restored. Very few steamers of that age are actually restored to regular operation standard and going by your comments its likely more of the loco is actually new than original. Dubs 8 is a good indication of how some older steamers are just not easily restored to regular reliable operation, at least the Abt locos were stored undercover for most of their non-operational lives, a significant step up than a beach side park. Its also note worthy that a number of former steamers placed on display in parks around the country have in recent years being removed and many like the ones formly in Gladstone Qld and Launceston park facing the gas axe due to their deterioting condition.

Yes I understand the steel girder bridge was extensively repaired. I wish I had photos of its condition in 1997, there was large corrision holes in the beams all over it, hence why medium and heavy vehicle access was banned in the years before and warning signs for lighter 4x4's.

The issue facing the original group was that large transit population of the west coast. Of the longterm residents, many retire away from the west coast, their children don't return etc. So hard to get a huge amount of local support compared to other locations. Queenstown had a growing issue of abandoned houses that were in a state of disrepair so the local council was simply knocking them down after X many years of rates not being paid. Any house that was transportable was often taken away by owners for use in Strahan or sold to other parts of the state.
RTT_Rules
Fair, Fair, probably misread there a little and took it too literally. 3/4 surviving locos were restored when the line reopened, while No.2 at the Tasmanian transport Museum was only sold back to the west coast after a fairly large grant a few years ago. From what I've heard the reason why it wasn't done up is they wanted to keep one "as withdrawn". Also, both the locos in parks you mentioned are still around, the C17 formerly in Gladstone was moved to Mundubbera for display after being used for parts at the Mary Valley Railway. The Loco that was in Launceston Park has been undergoing a very on-off protracted restoration at the Don River railway for decades now, It hasn't been since the 1970s that a plinthed steam loco has been scrapped to my knowledge. Most that have been removed from parks have been for parts, as in WA and Victoria.

Gee, I never would have thought something that had deteriorated that much was still salvageable. I must have been a struggle to get that bridge fixed.

Thankyou very much for your insight into the region at the time, it sounds absolutely awful. I think part of the reason why this went ahead would have to be due to the late Tim Fisher pulling a few strings in the federal government. It's remarkable at all that this railway was resurrected.
  Milepost Beginner

The money for the West Coast Railway rebuilding came from the Federal government. At the time John Howard was proposing to sell Telstra and needed the vote of Tasmanian Senator Brian Harradine. His vote precipitated the $23 million grant funding for this.

It also proves there is no money in running steam trains on a commercial basis with one-way pricing for two adults and two kids in the vicinity of $400. That reflects the true cost of heritage train operations on a pure commercial basis.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
The money for the West Coast Railway rebuilding came from the Federal government. At the time John Howard was proposing to sell Telstra and needed the vote of Tasmanian Senator Brian Harradine. His vote precipitated the $23 million grant funding for this.

It also proves there is no money in running steam trains on a commercial basis with one-way pricing for two adults and two kids in the vicinity of $400. That reflects the true cost of heritage train operations on a pure commercial basis.
Milepost

It's good to read that Brian Harradine did something useful when he was holding governments to ransom with his far right agenda. Good riddance to that bloke.

Yes it's expensive to travel, but it's also a memorable experience that most people would only undertake a few times in their lives. I did it around 12 years ago and was happy to pay the higher fare to experience the food and wines whilst travelling with my small group. I look forward to doing it again post COVID.

As for more conventional Strahan to Queenstown travel, there's now a regular bus service connecting to Burnie which did not exist last time I was in the area.

https://www.transport.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/263975/West_Coast_to_Burnie_timetable_20_April_20.pdf

Mike.
  12CSVT Chief Commissioner

Location: Drowning in accreditation red tape!
Fair, Fair, probably misread there a little and took it too literally. 3/4 surviving locos were restored when the line reopened, while No.2 at the Tasmanian transport Museum was only sold back to the west coast after a fairly large grant a few years ago. From what I've heard the reason why it wasn't done up is they wanted to keep one "as withdrawn".
Dangersdan707
Are you referring to MLMRCo No. 2 at the TTMS? Kept as withdrawn? Don't think so. No. 2 was fully cosmetically restored years ago by the TTM. There were plans in the 1980's to restore it to going order, but the state of the firebox (cactus, after years of oil firing on the MLM&RCo.) put paid to that and attention eventually moved on to M5. WCWR being Govt backed, have far more resources to restore No. 2 to operation (with a brand new boiler) than the TTMS ever did.
  12CSVT Chief Commissioner

Location: Drowning in accreditation red tape!
The money for the West Coast Railway rebuilding came from the Federal government. At the time John Howard was proposing to sell Telstra and needed the vote of Tasmanian Senator Brian Harradine. His vote precipitated the $23 million grant funding for this.

It also proves there is no money in running steam trains on a commercial basis with one-way pricing for two adults and two kids in the vicinity of $400. That reflects the true cost of heritage train operations on a pure commercial basis.
Milepost
Whilst the money for the Abt railway restoration eventually came from the Federal Govt, the restoration of the Abt Line was a long planned scheme of the Robin Gray Liberal Govt to harvest votes from the West Coast. So intent was the Gray Govt in wanting the Abt Railway rebuilt, a competing (organic, volunteer based, much cheaper and sustainable) scheme to rebuilt the North East Dundas 2ft gauge railway, with its Barron Falls (Qld) reminiscent curved bridge in front of Williamsford Falls and connection to a proposed industrial heritage park at Williamsford, incorporating the Hercules Haulage to the top of Mount Read and the old Williamsford bucketway, was wiped out, when the Gray Govt, intent on eliminating distractions to the Abt scheme, ensured the intact Hercules Haulage and bucketway were completely destroyed, killing the NED scheme, of which the haulage was an integral part.



So, the WCWR always was a blatant Govt "boondoggle" as a vote generator and unlike most railway preservation schemes that evolve organically, from the community with a volunteer base, the WCWR would never have happened if left to the community alone. Hence the WCWR is always a poor comparison to the normal volunteer initiated railway preservation projects, as its remote location, low community involvement (there was a Abt Railway Society that helped promote its restoration, but it was only ever a cheer squad and was never directly involved in the railway's restoration) and extremely difficult terrain & engineering requirements bear little resemblance to the majority of railway preservation schemes around the country.



Had the Govt not been so invested in the WCWR, when Federal Hotels gave it up as a commercial operation, it would have likely folded. Again, as a (now) Govt instrumentality, it bears no resemblance to any other railway preservation project so cannot be fairly used as a comparison to any other tourist & heritage railway project.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Fair, Fair, probably misread there a little and took it too literally. 3/4 surviving locos were restored when the line reopened, while No.2 at the Tasmanian transport Museum was only sold back to the west coast after a fairly large grant a few years ago. From what I've heard the reason why it wasn't done up is they wanted to keep one "as withdrawn".
Are you referring to MLMRCo No. 2 at the TTMS? Kept as withdrawn? Don't think so. No. 2 was fully cosmetically restored years ago by the TTM. There were plans in the 1980's to restore it to going order, but the state of the firebox (cactus, after years of oil firing on the MLM&RCo.) put paid to that and attention eventually moved on to M5. WCWR being Govt backed, have far more resources to restore No. 2 to operation (with a brand new boiler) than the TTMS ever did.
12CSVT
Gee, no need to be so aggressive and condescending. Not everyone is well versed in the ins and outs of the TTM circa 1980. I was going off what I had been told be volunteers at the TTM and workers at the WCW.

And yes for your smart assed specificness I was referring to MLMRCO No. 2 as just No.2 as its pretty self explanatory with the topic of this thread. I Never mentioned at all a possible TTMS restoration of this No.2 and its going to be very nice to see it in steam again. I had always assumed that when compared to her sister engines she would need just as much, if not more work to bring back to working order.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The money for the West Coast Railway rebuilding came from the Federal government. At the time John Howard was proposing to sell Telstra and needed the vote of Tasmanian Senator Brian Harradine. His vote precipitated the $23 million grant funding for this.

It also proves there is no money in running steam trains on a commercial basis with one-way pricing for two adults and two kids in the vicinity of $400. That reflects the true cost of heritage train operations on a pure commercial basis.

It's good to read that Brian Harradine did something useful when he was holding governments to ransom with his far right agenda. Good riddance to that bloke.

Yes it's expensive to travel, but it's also a memorable experience that most people would only undertake a few times in their lives. I did it around 12 years ago and was happy to pay the higher fare to experience the food and wines whilst travelling with my small group. I look forward to doing it again post COVID.

As for more conventional Strahan to Queenstown travel, there's now a regular bus service connecting to Burnie which did not exist last time I was in the area.

https://www.transport.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/263975/West_Coast_to_Burnie_timetable_20_April_20.pdf

Mike.
The Vinelander
I lived in Queenstown in late 90's and there was always a bus to Burnie and Hobart with connection to Strahan. Commerically the bus carried alot of freight for the mines etc including the odd KFC and Macca's order so I'd be surprised it would have stopped completely.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The money for the West Coast Railway rebuilding came from the Federal government. At the time John Howard was proposing to sell Telstra and needed the vote of Tasmanian Senator Brian Harradine. His vote precipitated the $23 million grant funding for this.

It also proves there is no money in running steam trains on a commercial basis with one-way pricing for two adults and two kids in the vicinity of $400. That reflects the true cost of heritage train operations on a pure commercial basis.
Whilst the money for the Abt railway restoration eventually came from the Federal Govt, the restoration of the Abt Line was a long planned scheme of the Robin Gray Liberal Govt to harvest votes from the West Coast. So intent was the Gray Govt in wanting the Abt Railway rebuilt, a competing (organic, volunteer based, much cheaper and sustainable) scheme to rebuilt the North East Dundas 2ft gauge railway, with its Barron Falls (Qld) reminiscent curved bridge in front of Williamsford Falls and connection to a proposed industrial heritage park at Williamsford, incorporating the Hercules Haulage to the top of Mount Read and the old Williamsford bucketway, was wiped out, when the Gray Govt, intent on eliminating distractions to the Abt scheme, ensured the intact Hercules Haulage and bucketway were completely destroyed, killing the NED scheme, of which the haulage was an integral part.



So, the WCWR always was a blatant Govt "boondoggle" as a vote generator and unlike most railway preservation schemes that evolve organically, from the community with a volunteer base, the WCWR would never have happened if left to the community alone. Hence the WCWR is always a poor comparison to the normal volunteer initiated railway preservation projects, as its remote location, low community involvement (there was a Abt Railway Society that helped promote its restoration, but it was only ever a cheer squad and was never directly involved in the railway's restoration) and extremely difficult terrain & engineering requirements bear little resemblance to the majority of railway preservation schemes around the country.



Had the Govt not been so invested in the WCWR, when Federal Hotels gave it up as a commercial operation, it would have likely folded. Again, as a (now) Govt instrumentality, it bears no resemblance to any other railway preservation project so cannot be fairly used as a comparison to any other tourist & heritage railway project.
12CSVT
Interesting but if you are saying the Hercules Ropeway was to used in a commerical operation to move people I think there needs to be a reality check. I saw what was left of this and no way was that ever going to be used for people. Would have been nice to see it work, but there is a similar one in UK still in commerical use and all have said that once the commerical activity stops in 5-10 years the ropeway will be dismantled as there is no practical use by others and ongoing maintainence just to keep it safe is prohibitive.

Gray lost govt in 1989 (?). The Abt Railway was rebuilt until over 10 years later. The ABt wasn't the only rail based hand out by the Feds as part of Telstra and Tasrail privisatitions. Note from what I can see a rebuilt Abt wasn't part of Gray's plans either. https://lrrsa.org.au/Lr091ned.htm

Working at Mt Lyell Mine in 1997-98 I did hear they considered rebuilding and reopening the former North? Mine Lyell Railway as part of a toursit venture a few years before. At work I drove past the portholes (near main office) with rails still sticking out and our dump station and crusher still had 2 foot rails in it on one side. However corrision of steel rails in a copper mine is horrific and it would have been high cost. The former railway tunnels were used to divert ground water out of the mine into the river as CMT were given an excemption from needing to process/treat the mine water from the old workings.

As a project in its own right the NE Dundas Railway isn't a bad idea, however I think as an idea it was oversold. A railway solely to a waterfall amazing and rare in Australia as it is, is still marginal and there needs to be more. The area around Zeehan isn't a significant tourist hub, unlike Queenstown and especially Strahan. Also half the route is just across the grass planes, may have been to start from Melba Flats. The CKSR in Qld major drawcard is not just the falls which can been seen from other angles its the scenery and the fact there is actually a destination at the end, something many tourist railways lack. I'm not sure if CKSR is a positive cash flow gnerator to cover its high operational cost, but politicallty it would be diffiicult to close now that the line is no longer used by freight.    

i think most realistical people accept that hertitage rail in Australia is a usually negative cash flow generator simply due to lack of population  in the areas many H&R railways are, yes the volunteer group that preceeded the Abt were mostly not involved and nor should they have been as it needed more than hopes and dreams to get up. We have seen another Fed govt cash hand out to Beaudesert Railway pi$$ed up against the wall through some incompetence, over confidence and external forces (vandalism) and taking on more than they could chew despite the best interests by those involved and realisation that tickets don't cover operating costs. The days of a hertigage society being gifted a former branch in close to usable condition, some rollingstock and a used sleepers and a pat on the back with good luck is over. Many have closed as defered maintainence coupled with rising insurance and other legal/compliance issues overwhelmed them.  

The Abt steamers, pushing 100 years old with nearly 70 years in operation I'm sure were all in a marginal state and by the sounds of it had so many parts replaced bullt new may have been similar cost, but then its not hertigage. I'm sure when the project kicked off I'd heard one of the four locos was deemed beyond recoverable, may have been #2. Even the one stored in Queenstown and Miners siding was out in the weather for a few decades before covered. NE Dundas would have needed mostly complete new stock as almost nothing left still exists today and I doubt the current owners of K-1 are ready to hand it back.

WCWR is going need ongoing cash flow from the state and/or feds, hopefully not too much and perhaps over time it can reduce and I'm sure will be strongly encouraged to do so. Full closure I doubt will occur again.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE

It's good to read that Brian Harradine did something useful when he was holding governments to ransom with his far right agenda. Good riddance to that bloke.

The Vinelander
Mike,
No need for your usual Politically motivated retotic on this topic. The guy who did support the ALP in govt at various times died 7 years ago, get over it!
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
Commerically the bus carried alot of freight for the mines etc including the off KFC and Macca's order.
RTT_Rules
Spew
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Commerically the bus carried alot of freight for the mines etc including the off KFC and Macca's order.
Spew
Graham4405
Haha thanks Graham,

Yes, it wasn't done in middle of summer for this reason. Redline Buses was the Uber Eats of the 1990's although we had to get someone to buy and drop off.

Should have said "odd", I fixed it.
  12CSVT Chief Commissioner

Location: Drowning in accreditation red tape!
Fair, Fair, probably misread there a little and took it too literally. 3/4 surviving locos were restored when the line reopened, while No.2 at the Tasmanian transport Museum was only sold back to the west coast after a fairly large grant a few years ago. From what I've heard the reason why it wasn't done up is they wanted to keep one "as withdrawn".
Are you referring to MLMRCo No. 2 at the TTMS? Kept as withdrawn? Don't think so. No. 2 was fully cosmetically restored years ago by the TTM. There were plans in the 1980's to restore it to going order, but the state of the firebox (cactus, after years of oil firing on the MLM&RCo.) put paid to that and attention eventually moved on to M5. WCWR being Govt backed, have far more resources to restore No. 2 to operation (with a brand new boiler) than the TTMS ever did.
Gee, no need to be so aggressive and condescending. Not everyone is well versed in the ins and outs of the TTM circa 1980. I was going off what I had been told be volunteers at the TTM and workers at the WCW.

And yes for your smart assed specificness I was referring to MLMRCO No. 2 as just No.2 as its pretty self explanatory with the topic of this thread. I Never mentioned at all a possible TTMS restoration of this No.2 and its going to be very nice to see it in steam again. I had always assumed that when compared to her sister engines she would need just as much, if not more work to bring back to working order.
Dangersdan707
Eh? Aggressive and condescending? What are you talking about? I was politely (where was I aggressive?) explaining the facts about MLMRCo.  No. 2 having been an active TTMS member in the eighties (so I know what happened). If you are so grieviously insulted having someone kindly and informatively explain the situation, dont ask the question in the first place!

P.S. If you think that initial response was "aggressive" just get me started and i will show you what aggressive really is!
  12CSVT Chief Commissioner

Location: Drowning in accreditation red tape!
Interesting but if you are saying the Hercules Ropeway was to used in a commerical operation to move people I think there needs to be a reality check. I saw what was left of this and no way was that ever going to be used for people. Would have been nice to see it work, but there is a similar one in UK still in commerical use and all have said that once the commerical activity stops in 5-10 years the ropeway will be dismantled as there is no practical use by others and ongoing maintainence just to keep it safe is prohibitive.

No I wasnt saying the ropeway was to be used for people, but a section was to be preserved for heritage reasons as part of an industrial heritage Park. The haulage mancars would have been restored for passengers though

Gray lost govt in 1989 (?). The Abt Railway was rebuilt until over 10 years later. The ABt wasn't the only rail based hand out by the Feds as part of Telstra and Tasrail privisatitions. Note from what I can see a rebuilt Abt wasn't part of Gray's plans either. https://lrrsa.org.au/Lr091ned.htm

I remember Gray raising the Abt a a proposal a few times during his tenure and using it as the reason he would not engage with any other preservation proposals on the west coast. The NED would have benefited Zeehan, but he wanted votes from Queenstown

Working at Mt Lyell Mine in 1997-98 I did hear they considered rebuilding and reopening the former North? Mine Lyell Railway as part of a toursit venture a few years before. At work I drove past the portholes (near main office) with rails still sticking out and our dump station and crusher still had 2 foot rails in it on one side. However corrision of steel rails in a copper mine is horrific and it would have been high cost. The former railway tunnels were used to divert ground water out of the mine into the river as CMT were given an excemption from needing to process/treat the mine water from the old workings.

As a project in its own right the NE Dundas Railway isn't a bad idea, however I think as an idea it was oversold. A railway solely to a waterfall amazing and rare in Australia as it is, is still marginal and there needs to be more. The area around Zeehan isn't a significant tourist hub, unlike Queenstown and especially Strahan. Also half the route is just across the grass planes, may have been to start from Melba Flats. The CKSR in Qld major drawcard is not just the falls which can been seen from other angles its the scenery and the fact there is actually a destination at the end, something many tourist railways lack. I'm not sure if CKSR is a positive cash flow gnerator to cover its high operational cost, but politicallty it would be diffiicult to close now that the line is no longer used by freight.    

You are no doubt correct, but the main point of the NED scheme was that it would be considerably cheaper to restore than the Abt and hence more sustainable from a comminity base

i think most realistical people accept that hertitage rail in Australia is a usually negative cash flow generator simply due to lack of population  in the areas many H&R railways are, yes the volunteer group that preceeded the Abt were mostly not involved and nor should they have been as it needed more than hopes and dreams to get up. We have seen another Fed govt cash hand out to Beaudesert Railway pi$$ed up against the wall through some incompetence, over confidence and external forces (vandalism) and taking on more than they could chew despite the best interests by those involved and realisation that tickets don't cover operating costs. The days of a hertigage society being gifted a former branch in close to usable condition, some rollingstock and a used sleepers and a pat on the back with good luck is over. Many have closed as defered maintainence coupled with rising insurance and other legal/compliance issues overwhelmed them.  

The Abt steamers, pushing 100 years old with nearly 70 years in operation I'm sure were all in a marginal state and by the sounds of it had so many parts replaced bullt new may have been similar cost, but then its not hertigage. I'm sure when the project kicked off I'd heard one of the four locos was deemed beyond recoverable, may have been #2. Even the one stored in Queenstown and Miners siding was out in the weather for a few decades before covered. NE Dundas would have needed mostly complete new stock as almost nothing left still exists today and I doubt the current owners of K-1 are ready to hand it back.

WCWR is going need ongoing cash flow from the state and/or feds, hopefully not too much and perhaps over time it can reduce and I'm sure will be strongly encouraged to do so. Full closure I doubt will occur again.
RTT_Rules
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
When I saw it mentioned above, this photo immediately came to mind.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141872414@N03/34593106861/
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Fair, Fair, probably misread there a little and took it too literally. 3/4 surviving locos were restored when the line reopened, while No.2 at the Tasmanian transport Museum was only sold back to the west coast after a fairly large grant a few years ago. From what I've heard the reason why it wasn't done up is they wanted to keep one "as withdrawn".
Are you referring to MLMRCo No. 2 at the TTMS? Kept as withdrawn? Don't think so. No. 2 was fully cosmetically restored years ago by the TTM. There were plans in the 1980's to restore it to going order, but the state of the firebox (cactus, after years of oil firing on the MLM&RCo.) put paid to that and attention eventually moved on to M5. WCWR being Govt backed, have far more resources to restore No. 2 to operation (with a brand new boiler) than the TTMS ever did.
Gee, no need to be so aggressive and condescending. Not everyone is well versed in the ins and outs of the TTM circa 1980. I was going off what I had been told be volunteers at the TTM and workers at the WCW.

And yes for your smart assed specificness I was referring to MLMRCO No. 2 as just No.2 as its pretty self explanatory with the topic of this thread. I Never mentioned at all a possible TTMS restoration of this No.2 and its going to be very nice to see it in steam again. I had always assumed that when compared to her sister engines she would need just as much, if not more work to bring back to working order.
Eh? Aggressive and condescending? What are you talking about? I was politely (where was I aggressive?) explaining the facts about MLMRCo.  No. 2 having been an active TTMS member in the eighties (so I know what happened). If you are so grieviously insulted having someone kindly and informatively explain the situation, dont ask the question in the first place!

P.S. If you think that initial response was "aggressive" just get me started and i will show you what aggressive really is!
12CSVT
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