The corona virus COVID-19

 
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
This might work interstate too:

I had a mate in Adelaide that tried to book a first dose Pfizer appointment the day it opened to under 40s, only to be told middle of September or early October. Instead he tried to book a second dose appointment and was given the next day, he then just booked that and a second, second dose appointment 2 weeks from then.

He was fully vaccinated well before he could otherwise get a first appointment.

Meanwhile, I have had two Pfizer doses, I am considering getting AZ in a couple of weeks too, and probably Moderna when available too. I am not too keen on trying to travel and being told I have been given the wrong vaccine for that country (Poland effectively does not recognise status of AZ alone for example), so I am going to be covered on as many bases as possible, including AZ which many Australians seem uninterested in getting.

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  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
At some point this country is going to have to have a discussion about living with Covid, assuming this country gets to 80% fully vaccinated, that is when the states should gradually open their borders and start to try and live more freely again.
How about not having to live with it once the full benefits of the vaccine have been reaped, that is a high enough uptake to achieve herd immunity? This has already been achieved with other vaccines in the past? For example, with the vaccine against polio and polio is now only endemic in Afghanistan and Pakistan. It's also been done with measles in much of the world.
No sovereign nation has yet reaped the full vaccine benefits. Well Bhutan may have but it is a microstate that is quite isolated and has never had that many cases.
Myrtone
Polio is an unfair comparison, Polio spreads with much more difficulty, and our species has had literal thousands, possibly tens of thousands of years to begin an evolved response to the virus, fast spreading viruses new to our species are a much more difficult prospect.

I am not old enough to have been around, but I know for a near fact that when Salk and then Sabin produced a vaccine there was exactly zero people protesting their 'right' to not have the vaccine - quite the opposite, especially with Sabin's creation near everyone was queuing up for their little paddle pop stick of sugared liquid.

One of the most disappointing things about the Taliban controlling Afghanistan is that we may never see what was formerly the looming end of Polio arrive until they're gone.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
It is not one's right to protest against the vaccine, it is one's right to get the vaccine, and thus protect the country from further lockdowns
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
it is one's obligation to get the vaccine, and thus protect the country from further lockdowns
lsrailfan
Fixed.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
it is one's obligation to get the vaccine, and thus protect the country from further lockdowns
Fixed.
Aaron
Better.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
How do we know? Actually, those who are vaccinated are less likely test positive. As I said, practically no sovereign nation has yet reaped the full vaccine benefits. Instead of a discussion about living with covid, let's actually wait and see what happens when near universal vaccination has been achieved.
Myrtone
This morning I was reading the study on I think Pfizer which is now formly approved by US FDA, not emergency approval.

Fully vaxed,
- 5 times less likely to get CV
- 29 times less likely to end up in hosipital from CV

The problem with getting on top of CV faster via vaccinations is that its not deadly enough. I'm sure if it was like Ebola the hard core anti-vaxers would be hiding in fear in their caves and the rest of the middle ground would be jabbing up.

UAE annouced last week that all emirates but Dubai will need to have kids vaxed to go back to school with monthly PCR, non-vaxed must get PCR each week. Dubai Emirate said kids don't need to be vaxed, but online learning in the private sector (majority of schools) will end on 1st Oct. So both systems are basically saying you don't have a choice.

I was listening to radio listeners feed back and usual respose. "I'm normally the mum (English) who takes their kids for their usual childhood vaccines without care of where its from, what type it is and who made it. But now as we are all arm chair experts in CV vaccines for this I think my kids will probably get regular PCR."  WTF???

All UAE residents and citizens must renew our vaccination within 6 weeks of 6mth from last dose to get access to many services and in any cases employment.

Of Interest Gold Sachs Bank in USA annouced today that no vaccine, no entry to building, employee or customer. Another airline (Swiss) annouced to its flight crew, no vax, no job as too many issues getting access to countries if not vaxed. I'd expect enearly all international airlines to make this a requirement for all its on board crew by end of year as condition of employment.

UAE is 84% single jab and today 75% double jab. Our positive cases are down below 1000 / day for first time in 9mths and death rate around 2/day (total population 10m). International Travel is open and only Abu Dhabi has quaratine for some countries and overall some coutries are still blocked and Sub-cont expats must be vaccinated in the UAE to return to the UAE. So I think overall we are close to reaping the full vaccine benefits.


As Aaron pointed out, Globally we still have countries expressing vaccine snobbery, which will make travel more difficult than in the past even for those vaccinated especially those in developing nations not able to get the Pfizer/Moderna. AZ I suspect will be no more by the end of the year in developed nations although Sinopharm will likely kick on for some time as cheap and easy to roll out despite limited life and effaacicy it does help.  Likely the future will be any nMRNA vaccine is the recognised vaccine for travel.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Polio is an unfair comparison, Polio spreads with much more difficulty, and our species has had literal thousands, possibly tens of thousands of years to begin an evolved response to the virus, fast spreading viruses new to our species are a much more difficult prospect.
Aaron
Well Polio (I'm told by someone who used to work as a doctor) still spreads easily, easily enough that transmission elsewhere in the world wasn't eliminated until there was a vaccine.* Herd immunity has also been achieved to measles with another vaccine. Measles is also no longer endemic everywhere in the world and was considered a mild illness before there was a vaccine against it. Herd immunity to smallpox has also been achieved mostly through vaccination.
Certainly a higher vaccination uptake is needed to stop transmission of a faster spreading virus than one that spreads less easily but doesn't mean it can't be achieved. Let's wait and see what happens once there is near universal vaccination in many other countries. I do believe transmission among the fully vaccinated is rare.

I am not old enough to have been around, but I know for a near fact that when Salk and then Sabin produced a vaccine there was exactly zero people protesting their 'right' to not have the vaccine - quite the opposite, especially with Sabin's creation near everyone was queuing up for their little paddle pop stick of sugared liquid.
Aaron
Firstly, one of the Polio vaccines is oral while all the current COVID-19 vaccines are given by a needle and a needle-phobe will understand what difference that makes. Secondly, you seem to be noting that vaccination against polio has never been a political issue.

One of the most disappointing things about the Taliban controlling Afghanistan is that we may never see what was formerly the looming end of Polio arrive until they're gone.
Aaron
It is also still circulating in Pakistan.

*In fact polio spreads easily enough that swimming pools and movie theatres used to have to close during summer before a polio vaccine was found.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
At some point this country is going to have to have a discussion about living with Covid, assuming this country gets to 80% fully vaccinated, that is when the states should gradually open their borders and start to try and live more freely again.
lsrailfan
And right on cue the ABC Charting The Jab article gets an update to include a handy little bar graph showing the time frame for the nation as a whole and each state and territory to reach 70% and 80%

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-02/charting-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout/13197518

NSW has shot to the top of the class overtaking the ACT in terms of percentage jabbed, this a huge effort as they came off a pretty low base

Victoria has fallen back in the pack from it's earlier position near the lead and Queensland has a lot of work to do
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
And right on cue the ABC Charting The Jab article gets an update to include a handy little bar graph showing the time frame for the nation as a whole and each state and territory to reach 70% and 80%
BrentonGolding
We should really be focused on reaching near universal vaccination as we have done before with uptake of other vaccines, not 70% or even 80%.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

Oh that's right I forgot NSW = gold standard, how did I forget that so quickly.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
No, Western Australia is the real gold standard, they had 10 months free of community transmission.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

Sarcasm
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
And right on cue the ABC Charting The Jab article gets an update to include a handy little bar graph showing the time frame for the nation as a whole and each state and territory to reach 70% and 80%
We should really be focused on reaching near universal vaccination as we have done before with uptake of other vaccines, not 70% or even 80%.
Myrtone
Ain't gonna happen, 70%/80% is where it is at. If they try to change that now I don't think that will go down well with the lockdown weary public in Vic and NSW many of whom have had enough. If WA and whoever else want to try to stay covid free forever they are welcome to give it a go but I wonder how long even the hermits of WA will be prepared to put up with not being allowed to travel anywhere nor have anyone travel to them from anywhere else.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
What I mean is that just because 80% has been reached doesn't mean the a higher uptake should not be encouraged. Maybe Western Australia could stay permanently free of endemic transmission through near universal vaccination across all age groups, both in Perth and regional Western Australia. After all, other vaccines have eliminated endemic transmission of other viruses in areas with high enough vaccine uptake.

We could have done virtually without lockdowns a while ago if we had better quarantine arrangements and our commonwealth government didn't allow travel to covid-laden countries other than in the most exceptional circumstances.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

"We could have done virtually without lockdowns a while ago if we had better quarantine arrangements and our commonwealth government didn't allow travel to covid-laden countries other than in the most exceptional circumstances
Myrtone

And better procurement of vaccines, front of the queue
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Polio is an unfair comparison, Polio spreads with much more difficulty, and our species has had literal thousands, possibly tens of thousands of years to begin an evolved response to the virus, fast spreading viruses new to our species are a much more difficult prospect.
Well Polio (I'm told by someone who used to work as a doctor) still spreads easily, easily enough that transmission elsewhere in the world wasn't eliminated until there was a vaccine.* Herd immunity has also been achieved to measles with another vaccine. Measles is also no longer endemic everywhere in the world and was considered a mild illness before there was a vaccine against it. Herd immunity to smallpox has also been achieved mostly through vaccination.
Certainly a higher vaccination uptake is needed to stop transmission of a faster spreading virus than one that spreads less easily but doesn't mean it can't be achieved. Let's wait and see what happens once there is near universal vaccination in many other countries. I do believe transmission among the fully vaccinated is rare.

I am not old enough to have been around, but I know for a near fact that when Salk and then Sabin produced a vaccine there was exactly zero people protesting their 'right' to not have the vaccine - quite the opposite, especially with Sabin's creation near everyone was queuing up for their little paddle pop stick of sugared liquid.
Firstly, one of the Polio vaccines is oral while all the current COVID-19 vaccines are given by a needle and a needle-phobe will understand what difference that makes. Secondly, you seem to be noting that vaccination against polio has never been a political issue.

One of the most disappointing things about the Taliban controlling Afghanistan is that we may never see what was formerly the looming end of Polio arrive until they're gone.
It is also still circulating in Pakistan.

*In fact polio spreads easily enough that swimming pools and movie theatres used to have to close during summer before a polio vaccine was found.
Myrtone
Suggestion. Before telling the likes of Aaron your opinion on the severity of Polio and Measles, maybe go hit the books a bit.

Start with "impact of dieases such as polio and measles on New World Native Populations" or titles long those lines including the 2019 outbreak of measles in Samoa.

Also consider that back before vaccinations for the likes of measles, child mortality rates were much higher than today for numerous reasons, most of which has been overcome.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Now the younger people whom have had the first astrazeneca shot can now have pfizer as second shot here in Victoria, will the time frame change ie 12 weeks to 3/6 weeks
Correct me if I'm wrong
Mix 'n' match
doyle
Is this true? That is not how I understood it.

The change is that now any age group can book a first shot for Pfizer and supply allowing people with Astra Zenica first shot appointments may be offered to switch to Pfizer.

There is no longer a restriction on under 40s getting Pfizer, but if you had the first Astra shot you still must have the second shot as Astra.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
"We could have done virtually without lockdowns a while ago if we had better quarantine arrangements and our commonwealth government didn't allow travel to covid-laden countries other than in the most exceptional circumstances
Myrtone

And better procurement of vaccines, front of the queue
doyle
If the quarantine arrangements had been better then the vaccine rollout would not have been as urgent now, simple as that.

Should have started developing more Howard Springs - style facilities straight away instead of using hotels. Our so called leaders both Federal and State have let us all down and now we are paying the price both mentally and financially.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

Is this true? That is not how I understood it.
Mr Lane

Im sure I heard it that way... but... Like I said correct me if I'm wrong

I also remember hearing moderna may be used as the 3rd shot (booster)
You had az right? would you have second shot sooner if you could with pfizer?
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
If the quarantine arrangements had been better then the vaccine rollout would not have been as urgent now, simple as that.
BrentonGolding
No more urgent than in New Zealand and way less than in Europe or the U.S.

Should have started developing more Howard Springs - style facilities straight away instead of using hotels. Our so called leaders both Federal and State have let us all down and now we are paying the price both mentally and financially.
BrentonGolding
So let's not have open borders nor switch from going by case numbers to number of hospitalisations before the next election so that our next prime minister can do better with quarantine arrangements, otherwise better quarantine arrangements won't fix anything.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
If the quarantine arrangements had been better then the vaccine rollout would not have been as urgent now, simple as that.
No more urgent than in New Zealand and way less than in Europe or the U.S.

Should have started developing more Howard Springs - style facilities straight away instead of using hotels. Our so called leaders both Federal and State have let us all down and now we are paying the price both mentally and financially.
So let's not have open borders nor switch from going by case numbers to number of hospitalisations before the next election so that our next prime minister can do better with quarantine arrangements, otherwise better quarantine arrangements won't fix anything.
Myrtone
Comparing NZ and Europe / US on vaccine rollout? Have you seen the figures for NZ?

As for the second part, like I said earlier you have got no hope. Did you see what happened when Victoria opened up Vax appointments to the young folk today? A stampede. Crashed the website, crashed the phone lines. They are losing the best years of their lives to this crap and they know it. They want their lives back and they want it yesterday

Time to get the vax now, no excuses, get it done. Anyone who doesn't will be exposing themselves to a greater risk of catching the virus ore than those who are fully vaxxed.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

You had az right? would you have second shot sooner if you could with pfizer?
doyle
Yes I had AZ and I would still wait until October 20 when my second AZ shot is due. having had the first shot I know what to expect now and I am fine with a night of fever and a little sore for a few days after.

At the current projections we still wont be at 70% double dose when I have my second shot so I doubt there will be any freedoms for fully vaxed people by that time.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
"We could have done virtually without lockdowns a while ago if we had better quarantine arrangements and our commonwealth government didn't allow travel to covid-laden countries other than in the most exceptional circumstances
Myrtone

And better procurement of vaccines, front of the queue
If the quarantine arrangements had been better then the vaccine rollout would not have been as urgent now, simple as that.

Should have started developing more Howard Springs - style facilities straight away instead of using hotels. Our so called leaders both Federal and State have let us all down and now we are paying the price both mentally and financially.
BrentonGolding
Whats the difference between Howard Springs and a hotel in the CBD?

Both have people come through the airport

Both have people drive them from the airport

Both have staff come in near contact with them

Both have staff go home to families

The real difference, Billion's of dollars the 12,000 or more beds required plus facilities for the staff look after 12,000 people to be built using tax payers money for limited period of use within a reasonable driving distance from a major capital city airport destination as the planes with a belly full of freight still need to get to their destination.

When this all kicked off, most experts were telling the Leaders of the world thought it would be all over within a few months so a few weeks isolation followed by a few months restricted movements and the virus will mutate into oblivan like SARS1, MERS etc did before it. Then it was ok we roll out vaccine, this will take 12mth or so and done.

Moral of the story, you don't spend billions replicating existing hotels to achieve only a minor improvement in bio security that is not visioned to be required for more than 12mth. Its a nasty flu like virus with a 2-3% death rate not Ebola. No other country has wasted billions on building such facilities. Kiwi land is following same path as Oz and if far more flexible with its hotel than Oz. Additionally in both Kiwi land and Oz, some of the spreads source was never found or found after two weeks in Iso.

Ever wondered why Sydney brings home more than half? Its not just ebcause Gladys is a nice person, its because Sydney gets the majority of airfreight.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
^^^
Another reason for using hotels as quarantine locations was lots of empty rooms, and plenty of staff with no work at all the ☆☆☆☆ hotels.  
Why build something when you have everything required all ready to go?       Two birds, one stone.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Whats the difference between Howard Springs and a hotel in the CBD?
RTT_Rules
The fact that there is wide open space between the units and not an enclosed corridor with suspect ventilation where people interact

Means that "guests" don't breath each other's air and more importantly it keeps staff and others from breathing said air.

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