V/Line halts rail freight due to poor track condition

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 27 Aug 2021 19:33
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Anyone know what the wheel diameter on these bad boys is?  That could be a factor...
Whats the wheel diameter issue down there?  I know it also had some impact on Murray Basin?
920 mm or 830 mm if I remember correctly but that should only affect the axleload not the ability to run ?????????????
I imagine that these wagons would be 830 mm IF the 1020 deck height is correct but open to correction or confirmation on this.
Im still not clear what the issue is between 920mm and 830mm diameters?
james.au
It's a highly technical issue surrounding wheel/rail interfaces about which I know nothing beyond that it is more significant at higher axleloads such as apply in the Pilbara where 40+ axleloads apply. Nevertheless, I suppose that one could extrapolate it down to HO gauge if one was sufficiently so minded.

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  jakar Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
A V/Line 'report' suggests Qube were aware of the non-compliance of the wagons but chose to run them anyway. Only reason they made it to Geelong was the train controller did not have the consist information prior to the train leaving ARTC trackage and entering their own.

A train operations notice was released yesterday with an addenda update that after a technical review the restriction that they can only operate on class 1 and 2 track has been removed.
So this was a problem with the registration and not a physical problem with the vehicle/track interface??
'... Is there a real reason or just a bureaucratic stuff up? ... '

Hence my question (above) on 28/8 at 1430!
YM-Mundrabilla
I would assume Qube does auditing for compliance purposes and given the restriction has been in the addenda for many years i'd love to know how it slipped through their cracks and wasn't rectified sooner. Hopefully speedemon8 or others can elaborate further at some stage.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
A V/Line 'report' suggests Qube were aware of the non-compliance of the wagons but chose to run them anyway. Only reason they made it to Geelong was the train controller did not have the consist information prior to the train leaving ARTC trackage and entering their own.

A train operations notice was released yesterday with an addenda update that after a technical review the restriction that they can only operate on class 1 and 2 track has been removed.
So this was a problem with the registration and not a physical problem with the vehicle/track interface??
'... Is there a real reason or just a bureaucratic stuff up? ... '

Hence my question (above) on 28/8 at 1430!
I would assume Qube does auditing for compliance purposes and given the restriction has been in the addenda for many years i'd love to know how it slipped through their cracks and wasn't rectified sooner. Hopefully speedemon8 or others can elaborate further at some stage.
jakar
From what I'm hearing, they were originally only accredited for the Maryvale train..... and no one bothered to check or care in the 7 years since until what I assume, a bored train controller, noticed.
  lkernan Chief Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Anyway, the issue is getting sorted out. And the reason is dumber than you think.
speedemon08
The dog ate V/Line's homework?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

VLP has now miraculously approved the aforesaid problem child waggons to run all track classes.  For once a quick resolution from all parties involved for the benefit of rail forwarders and QUBE.  Pershaps next time such an incident arises the train involved will not be stopped in its tracks  !!! After all the waggons had been running around on all sorts of quality tracks for over 5 years without incident.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
A V/Line 'report' suggests Qube were aware of the non-compliance of the wagons but chose to run them anyway. Only reason they made it to Geelong was the train controller did not have the consist information prior to the train leaving ARTC trackage and entering their own.

A train operations notice was released yesterday with an addenda update that after a technical review the restriction that they can only operate on class 1 and 2 track has been removed.
So this was a problem with the registration and not a physical problem with the vehicle/track interface??
'... Is there a real reason or just a bureaucratic stuff up? ... '

Hence my question (above) on 28/8 at 1430!
I would assume Qube does auditing for compliance purposes and given the restriction has been in the addenda for many years i'd love to know how it slipped through their cracks and wasn't rectified sooner. Hopefully speedemon8 or others can elaborate further at some stage.
From what I'm hearing, they were originally only accredited for the Maryvale train..... and no one bothered to check or care in the 7 years since until what I assume, a bored train controller, noticed.
speedemon08
They were accredited for Maryvale, Deni and Tocumwal only.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
VLP has now miraculously approved the aforesaid problem child waggons to run all track classes.  For once a quick resolution from all parties involved for the benefit of rail forwarders and QUBE.  Pershaps next time such an incident arises the train involved will not be stopped in its tracks  !!! After all the waggons had been running around on all sorts of quality tracks for over 5 years without incident.
kuldalai
The problem with the wagons when they first arrived on the BG, was the bogies. They were a mismatched lot and each bogie needed their own spacers made along with other bits. With this, heights of wagons were an issue and had to run in a particular order. Should a wagon be swaped out, threw the whole rake out and needed to be remarshalled to suit all the coupler heights. It was like playing tetris some nights.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

Anyone know what the wheel diameter on these bad boys is?  That could be a factor...
Whats the wheel diameter issue down there?  I know it also had some impact on Murray Basin?
920 mm or 830 mm if I remember correctly but that should only affect the axleload not the ability to run ?????????????
I imagine that these wagons would be 830 mm IF the 1020 deck height is correct but open to correction or confirmation on this.
Im still not clear what the issue is between 920mm and 830mm diameters?
james.au
The interface to the rail is a function of the wheel radius.   The bigger the wheel the less the applied stress for a given load.   Smaller wheels allow for lower deck heights and to fit things like 9ft6 high containers, but their capacity is less.   Its highly theoretical as the actual applied force to the track is higher and translates to increased degradation, not that you would see it in real time.   The lower class tracks have many joints and far less support for the rail, small wheels at said axle load exacerbate what is already low quality track.    Its not a direct safety issue (noting I know nothing about the mismatch wagons/bogie and coupler height issue, separate issue to the wheels)
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
VLP has now miraculously approved the aforesaid problem child waggons to run all track classes.  For once a quick resolution from all parties involved for the benefit of rail forwarders and QUBE.  Pershaps next time such an incident arises the train involved will not be stopped in its tracks  !!! After all the waggons had been running around on all sorts of quality tracks for over 5 years without incident.
The problem with the wagons when they first arrived on the BG, was the bogies. They were a mismatched lot and each bogie needed their own spacers made along with other bits. With this, heights of wagons were an issue and had to run in a particular order. Should a wagon be swaped out, threw the whole rake out and needed to be remarshalled to suit all the coupler heights. It was like playing tetris some nights.
LowndesJ515
Amazing - yet the wagons still retain(ed) their Y speed classification.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Anyone know what the wheel diameter on these bad boys is?  That could be a factor...
Whats the wheel diameter issue down there?  I know it also had some impact on Murray Basin?
920 mm or 830 mm if I remember correctly but that should only affect the axleload not the ability to run ?????????????
I imagine that these wagons would be 830 mm IF the 1020 deck height is correct but open to correction or confirmation on this.
Im still not clear what the issue is between 920mm and 830mm diameters?
The interface to the rail is a function of the wheel radius.   The bigger the wheel the less the applied stress for a given load.   Smaller wheels allow for lower deck heights and to fit things like 9ft6 high containers, but their capacity is less.   Its highly theoretical as the actual applied force to the track is higher and translates to increased degradation, not that you would see it in real time.   The lower class tracks have many joints and far less support for the rail, small wheels at said axle load exacerbate what is already low quality track.    Its not a direct safety issue (noting I know nothing about the mismatch wagons/bogie and coupler height issue, separate issue to the wheels)
skitz
Ahh of course.  The engineer's brain hasn't kicked in on this one it seems.  Makes sense but would it be such a problem for agricultural freight which is pretty bulky and so high containers wouldnt be needed?  Evidently not given the issues being encountered...
  Bonzel Junior Train Controller

Ultima carries 40ft high cube boxes for hay , 40ft high cube reefers , 20ft standard height wine bladder boxes and of late 20ft high cube bulker boxes.
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Not in Victoria
VLP has now miraculously approved the aforesaid problem child waggons to run all track classes.  For once a quick resolution from all parties involved for the benefit of rail forwarders and QUBE.  Pershaps next time such an incident arises the train involved will not be stopped in its tracks  !!! After all the waggons had been running around on all sorts of quality tracks for over 5 years without incident.
The problem with the wagons when they first arrived on the BG, was the bogies. They were a mismatched lot and each bogie needed their own spacers made along with other bits. With this, heights of wagons were an issue and had to run in a particular order. Should a wagon be swaped out, threw the whole rake out and needed to be remarshalled to suit all the coupler heights. It was like playing tetris some nights.
Amazing - yet the wagons still retain(ed) their Y speed classification.
YM-Mundrabilla
There are quite a few wagons out there today that the bogie last letter Classification means stuff all.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Where are the various Rail Safety Regulators in all this?

Out to lunch with the Financial, Banking and Casino Regulators?

The fourth letter in a wagon classification is (or is supposed to be) an indication of wagon speed and, as such has a safety aspect.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Where are the various Rail Safety Regulators in all this?

Out to lunch with the Financial, Banking and Casino Regulators?

The fourth letter in a wagon classification is (or is supposed to be) an indication of wagon speed and, as such has a safety aspect.
YM-Mundrabilla
Where are the various regulators ?   Aren't they out the back in the paint booth, painting trams Laughing

BigShunter.

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