The corona virus COVID-19

 
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
BS, you want to be part of society and expect people to fund your medical treatment then you do your bit and get jabbed because the consequences to health and the economy of a broader unvaccinated community is now well established.

The only breach of societal contract is by those who leach off others.
RTT_Rules
I agree with you - but let's start with my favorite societal leaches: fat people.

They leach off the health system because they don't want to look after themselves; it's a choice to keep shoving those tasty treats into your gob and making yourself unhealthy. Chronic illnesses like diabetes are the very most expensive things for the health system to treat. Why not simply cancel their Medicare? It'll save us a fortune and frankly those people deserve it because of their choices.

Are you with me?

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  doyle Chief Commissioner

Oh.. yas my brother.. Hallelujah
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

BS, you want to be part of society and expect people to fund your medical treatment then you do your bit and get jabbed because the consequences to health and the economy of a broader unvaccinated community is now well established.

The only breach of societal contract is by those who leach off others.
I agree with you - but let's start with my favorite societal leaches: fat people.

They leach off the health system because they don't want to look after themselves; it's a choice to keep shoving those tasty treats into your gob and making yourself unhealthy. Chronic illnesses like diabetes are the very most expensive things for the health system to treat. Why not simply cancel their Medicare? It'll save us a fortune and frankly those people deserve it because of their choices.

Are you with me?
don_dunstan
Let’s continue with my favourite leeches. For the record, I’m 70kg wringing wet.
Consultants, bureaucrats, lobbyists and politicians.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Don, all Victorians currently in hospital covid wards are unvaxxed, and I think the same in NSW.   Says something doesn't it!  For your sake (and to keep us amused) go and get jabbed.  It is not that hard.
Donald
Immunity from the 'vaccine' fades pretty quickly - Israel for example no longer considers you to be eligible for the vaccine passport unless you've had 3+ shots. So once you start having them you've got to keep having regular needles for the rest of your life or the protection eventually diminishes to nil.

It's all a really big experiment hey - if myocarditis is a definite long term side-effect of Pfizer's vaccine (for example) then you're in the team of brave little lab rats about to find out for us with your frequently repeated doses of drugs over the coming years giving us the statistical information we need to discover these things.

Sometimes it takes decades for authorities to discover and qualify the adverse effects of drugs - for example Seldane (by Hoechst) was fully approved and on the market for thirteen years in the USA, first approved 1984. It was an extremely popular prescription antihistamine before they finally found out it causes heart arrhythmia and it was taken off the market for good in 1997. Hoechst tried to stop their drug from being taken off the market despite the evidence simply because it was apparently a really good antihistamine and heavily prescribed. There's big bucks to be made in modern pharmacy, don't you know.

Oxycontin's big claim to fame when it was launched in 1996 was that it was a non-addictive analgesic - yes - really, doctors were told that there was no chance their patients would become addicted to Oxycontin compared to traditional strong analgesics like morphine. The maker Purdue only recently got wound up in US bankruptcy courts from being sued into the ground over their biggest selling drug ever, but they made many, many billions from it before they were held responsible for the problems it was causing. In fact they've still got a university named after themselves in Indiana such is testament to the amount of cash they reaped from that drug.

I guess real world trials are the ultimate clinical study aren't they - especially when the drug is repeatedly administered. I heard ScoMo bought enough Pfizer last week for every Aussie for five years - so they're expecting that's what will happen, injections for everyone forever.

I never said I won't take part, I'm just delaying for while in case I wake up one morning and two thirds of you have turned into Triffids. In which case - can I have your house?
  doyle Chief Commissioner

Don't forget sky after dark and 2gb for that list
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Let’s continue with my favourite leeches. For the record, I’m 70kg wringing wet.
Consultants, bureaucrats, lobbyists and politicians.
michaelgm
I really wish there was a serious illness that only affected lobbyists, politicians and all those other hangers-on. I'm seriously starting to think the Chinese Communist Party has it right - just go with an autocracy, it's more honest than just letting the rich buy out the government every single frigging time.

And in all seriousness, I was at a big Adelaide shopping center food court today and there was a woman who had eaten her way into a bariatric wheelchair that would have put Jabba the Hutt to shame - and she was eating at least two adult sized meals in just one sitting. She was almost too big for the specially-built electric wheelchair that was carting her around.

My contention is: People like that shouldn't be allowed access to Medicare - why should us norm-o responsible eaters have to pay for that? The short answer is 'we shouldn't'.

Seriously.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
And if you are double-vaccinated (and planning to take even more vaccines so you've told us) then why are you afraid of being exposed to COVID19? Don't you have any faith in their ability to protect you?
don_dunstan
You really don't get it do you?

You managed to post it yourself.

temporary immunity enhancement (not actually a vaccine by definition)
don_dunstan
Me being multiple dosed even with multiple vaccines doesn't guarantee I won't get it if someone like yourself is successful in passing it to me. Having EVERYONE vaccinated (or temporarily immunity enhanced if you prefer) gives YOU and ME and EVERYONE the best possible chance of avoiding it in the first place.

ADDITIONALLY, if the vaccine does entirely prevent me from contracting the virus from you, I still have the privilege of paying for your two weeks (plus) on life support in a hospital, plus associated costs of your on going future treatment and potential lifetime of organ damage and subsequent losses of productivity - presuming you're not already unproductively on welfare.

I pay enough tax already.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Let’s continue with my favourite leeches. For the record, I’m 70kg wringing wet.
Consultants, bureaucrats, lobbyists and politicians.
I really wish there was a serious illness that only affected lobbyists, politicians and all those other hangers-on. I'm seriously starting to think the Chinese Communist Party has it right - just go with an autocracy, it's more honest than just letting the rich buy out the government every single frigging time.

And in all seriousness, I was at a big Adelaide shopping center food court today and there was a woman who had eaten her way into a bariatric wheelchair that would have put Jabba the Hutt to shame - and she was eating at least two adult sized meals in just one sitting. She was almost too big for the specially-built electric wheelchair that was carting her around.

My contention is: People like that shouldn't be allowed access to Medicare - why should us norm-o responsible eaters have to pay for that? The short answer is 'we shouldn't'.

Seriously.
don_dunstan
I don't strictly disagree. I regard Medicare as a safety net, I am no fan of it being billed for self imposed avoidable medical issues.

For the record, my pet hate for the abuse of Medicare are those that go overseas to see cosmetic surgeons whose primary medical/surgical experience looks like having once played the Hasbro 'Operation' game with some limited success, returning to Australia after a 'botched' elective procedure, then having Aussie Drs and Aussie hospitals 'fix' them on the public dollar.

If you cannot afford the procedure in Australia, you cannot afford the procedure, and if you go overseas, you either entirely recover there, pay for the relevant follow up work in Australia YOURSELF, or live with how you were made to be in Australia - Australia ought not pay for your stupid mistake.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

No Donald go back to page 270

Mr Lane and Aaron first mentioned tie vaccines and payments to pensions

This c r a p was what I was disgusted at


Aaron
Tie it to pension payments and you will get to 95% pretty quickly.
Mr. Lane
100% agree with that.(Aaron)
Posted: 01 Sep 2021 22:05
Disagree (1) (Aaron)

How can you possibly disagree with this statement/post that you made, Aaron,

Or was is another cursory glance of something that bored you

Good grief man what's going on
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
No Donald go back to page 270

Mr Lane and Aaron first mentioned tie vaccines and payments to pensions

This c r a p was what I was disgusted at


Aaron
Tie it to pension payments and you will get to 95% pretty quickly.
Mr. Lane
100% agree with that.
Posted: 01 Sep 2021 22:05
doyle
You still have not explained why it is harder for a part time worker to have a vaccine than a full time employed worker...

I am waiting for that explanation, it should be good for a larf.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
No Donald go back to page 270

Mr Lane and Aaron first mentioned tie vaccines and payments to pensions

This c r a p was what I was disgusted at


Aaron
Tie it to pension payments and you will get to 95% pretty quickly.
Mr. Lane
100% agree with that.(Aaron)
Posted: 01 Sep 2021 22:05
Disagree (1) (Aaron)

How can you possibly disagree with this statement/post that you made, Aaron,

Or was is another cursory glance of something that bored you

Good grief man what's going on
doyle
I disagreed because before you edited it (still wrong BTW) you were so disgusted by such an egregious thing that you did not even seemingly bother to check who said what...

Hence, why I also hit 'Agree' on Mr Lane's observation that you had it backwards, or would you prefer to 'agree' with you and 'disagree' with him being right? Because, that would be a sensible thing to want.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

Aaron
You quoted Mr Lane

This quote
"Tie it to pension payments and you will get to 95% pretty quickly.
Mr. Lane

Then you wrote
" 100% agree with that.
Posted: 01 Sep 2021 22:05

Then I quoted all of it and you disagreed with what you had written

Disagree (1) (Aaron)

Surely you understand that
  doyle Chief Commissioner

Yes I know who said what, it is very clear
  doyle Chief Commissioner

I'm over it, I don't care if you get it or not.

Plain speakin


I've always appreciated your posts they have mostly been very insightful clear and accurate

Thank you


I really do crack myself up, it's really hilarious
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
BS, you want to be part of society and expect people to fund your medical treatment then you do your bit and get jabbed because the consequences to health and the economy of a broader unvaccinated community is now well established.

The only breach of societal contract is by those who leach off others.
RTT_Rules
I agree with you - but let's start with my favorite societal leaches: fat people.

They leach off the health system because they don't want to look after themselves; it's a choice to keep shoving those tasty treats into your gob and making yourself unhealthy. Chronic illnesses like diabetes are the very most expensive things for the health system to treat. Why not simply cancel their Medicare? It'll save us a fortune and frankly those people deserve it because of their choices.

Are you with me?
"don_dunstan"


Yes, I'm a believer that people need to be held more finacially accountable for their life chocies including over eating and smoking and this should be extended to cost of treatment from those who refuse vaccinations against medical advise. Having said that I have heard of a few incidences people in the Aust public health system where Dr's have refused certain treatment, mostly for smokers and chronically obese saying it was a waste of taxpayers money unless they are prepared to meet them half way and make changes.

Yes CV is more toxic for those obese and yes there would be less issues if the population's weight was healthier but just refer to Japan for the differences, its helps but its not a deal breaker in managing the virus. ie we wouldn't be able to go back to normal on this change alone.

In the US, some employers have said they will charge their employees around $200 a month to cover their higher insurance premiums for not being jabbed.

Also despite what people think, employers do have a right to dictate if your emplpyment is linked to vaccination as they have the right to link many other things you do both on and off the clock to your employment.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
I believe a Winery in South Australia will be the first business in the country to mandate Vaccination for their staff and ALL Visitors as well, the first of many I would suggest.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Aaron
You quoted Mr Lane

This quote
"Tie it to pension payments and you will get to 95% pretty quickly.
Mr. Lane

Then you wrote
" 100% agree with that.
Posted: 01 Sep 2021 22:05

Then I quoted all of it and you disagreed with what you had written

Disagree (1) (Aaron)

Surely you understand that
doyle
Now you're getting there!

Contrast that with the post I disagreed with...

No Donald go back to page 270

Mr Lane and Aaron first mentioned tie vaccines and payments to pensions

This c r a p was what I was disgusted at


Aaron
Tie it to pension payments and you will get to 95% pretty quickly.
Mr. Lane
100% agree with that.
Posted: 01 Sep 2021 22:05
doyle
Notice how you have my name with 'Tie it to pension payments and you will get to 95% pretty quickly.'? Notice how I didn't actually say that.

Likewise you have Mr Lane's name with '100% agree with that.' - Also notice he didn't actually say that.

Of course I am going to disagree with that post, because, well, I am not an idiot.

Notice how Mr Lane subsequently points out to you that you have it smeg about? - and I agree with that, because I am not insane.

Maybe you should make an appointment to see Don's Dr, I think your vaccine is attacking cells required for cognition.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Meanwhile in NZ, they have refused until recently to consider any other vaccine to Pfizer and now are now further behind than Australia.

Anyway Australia is now back on I think Dec or Jan plan.
The latest news is that NZ is vaccinating a greater proportion of the population per day than Australia. Just under 90,000 per day over the last week. Unfortunately supply may not be able to maintain this during September but large supplies are due in October.
Early this week 2000 mainly Maori and Pacifika students were vaccinated over 2 days at the stadium in Dunedin. Anyone could turn up but it was aimed at the student population living within walk up distance of the stadium.
The latest figures are 30% fully vaccinated, 57% first dose and 71% booked in or at least one dose. As of Sep 1, anyone 12 or over can book.
There is enough Pfizer ordered to vaccinate the whole country, no need for others. It avoids all the confusion seen in Australia. We have been sending supplies to Pacific Islands. Cook Islands had 95% vaccinated in early August.  
I think one other vaccine has been approved (Janssen?) for use in isolated areas (normal refrigeration, one dose). Others are on order but there will be enough Pfizer for all. Just checked AZ has been approved but no plan to use.
It is now 2 months since I had my second dose of Pfizer.
Brianr
Yes, short spurt where vac is faster than OZ which is good news for NZ.

Had NZ ordered more vaccines, then NZ may not be seeing the outbreak issues of today and avoided a lock down.  NZ ran a risk focusing on only Pfizer. Australia ordered 140m vaccines, 2 of the 4 (nearly 100 m) were never able to be ordered due to the vaccine failing early trials. AZ as we all know had its own issues which slowed things down.

I disagree with your confusion comment, its something most other countries in the world have managed without issue. Australia's problem was mostly some state CHO's publically arguing with the Fed's. These discussions should have always been behind closed doors and not doing so shows hows unprofessional that CHO is and this same CHO has been since condemed by her own profession for doing so.

NZ actually ordered 4 vaccines, the largest also being the same largest as Australia, Novavax. Novovax has yet to proceed in the US for approval 12mths after it first proposed. NZ as also approved for potential order JJ and AZ (12m shots), but at this time not proceeded and still evaluating (July). I agree that NZ will likely proceed with either single shot J&J or AZ to vaccinate remote communties due to complexity of Pfizer logistics, which is why Australia also focused on AZ and Afrcia is being donated non-pfizer vaccines.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Scott Morrison's "roadmap" is full of gobbledygook. He is just ridiculous. His government hasn't done a good job with quarantine and the vaccine rollout has also been slow under him, though this wouldn't be such a problem had it been for better quarantine arrangements and our citizens and permanent residents didn't leave the Trans Tasman bubble other than in the most exceptional circumstances, which does not include attending a wedding or even a funeral. I'm not are more okay with it than is Premier Macca.

Scott doesn't even talk about achieving a vaccine uptake higher than 80%.
Myrtone
No democratic govt and almost all others in the world is talking +80% for good reason.
  doyle Chief Commissioner

No you are wrong try harder you will eventually get there

Copy and paste and then added Mr Lanes name under what you quoted he said pretty simple

I did mention I don’t care if you get it or not really I don't care that you don't get it, got it, forget it, great talk
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Rather odd assumptions that welfare recipients mostly have drug and alcohol issues.
I believe that everyone who can be vaccinated should be vaccinated, singling out the less fortunate is wrong and very strange, and quite bizarre, you have an opinion that's fine I respect that, I have my opinion and that's fine as well, I will always find it quite weird that drugs and alcohol and limiting people's freedoms is most worrisome for you and for others who may have similar views, how is it that a seemingly smart person seems to think that drugs and alcohol is a welfare recipients life, granted some have those issues, the best alcoholic has a job
Kicking people while they are down in my view is definitely the wrong approach
doyle
No one is kicking anyone.

What we are saying is that if you want community money to fund your life and potentially you medical treatment you should to comply with community standard which at the moment is get vaccinated. Considering the economy is funded by people who actually work, then those not able or unwiling to do so should still help the community return to normal.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Not interested in going through country by country.
Am interested in whacking Morrison and co for their political agenda.
Its a very narrow minded approach to critise/whing about a state or fed leader without comparing to whats happening elsewhere to see if there is a valid reason or not. Demonstrates you focus on political agendas, not logical/practicality, the same thing you are critising the Fed govt for.
It is, possibly one you yourself might relate with?
michaelgm
No, I look into the reasons why the vaccination availability is what it is. Something its obvious most here havn't because surprise why let reality risk challenging their political opinions.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Meanwhile in NZ, they have refused until recently to consider any other vaccine to Pfizer and now are now further behind than Australia.

Anyway Australia is now back on I think Dec or Jan plan.
The latest news is that NZ is vaccinating a greater proportion of the population per day than Australia. Just under 90,000 per day over the last week. Unfortunately supply may not be able to maintain this during September but large supplies are due in October.
Early this week 2000 mainly Maori and Pacifika students were vaccinated over 2 days at the stadium in Dunedin. Anyone could turn up but it was aimed at the student population living within walk up distance of the stadium.
The latest figures are 30% fully vaccinated, 57% first dose and 71% booked in or at least one dose. As of Sep 1, anyone 12 or over can book.
There is enough Pfizer ordered to vaccinate the whole country, no need for others. It avoids all the confusion seen in Australia. We have been sending supplies to Pacific Islands. Cook Islands had 95% vaccinated in early August.  
I think one other vaccine has been approved (Janssen?) for use in isolated areas (normal refrigeration, one dose). Others are on order but there will be enough Pfizer for all. Just checked AZ has been approved but no plan to use.
It is now 2 months since I had my second dose of Pfizer.
Yes, short spurt where vac is faster than OZ which is good news for NZ.

Had NZ ordered more vaccines, then NZ may not be seeing the outbreak issues of today and avoided a lock down.  NZ ran a risk focusing on only Pfizer. Australia ordered 140m vaccines, 2 of the 4 (nearly 100 m) were never able to be ordered due to the vaccine failing early trials. AZ as we all know had its own issues which slowed things down.

I disagree with your confusion comment, its something most other countries in the world have managed without issue. Australia's problem was mostly some state CHO's publically arguing with the Fed's. These discussions should have always been behind closed doors and not doing so shows hows unprofessional that CHO is and this same CHO has been since condemed by her own profession for doing so.

NZ actually ordered 4 vaccines, the largest also being the same largest as Australia, Novavax. Novovax has yet to proceed in the US for approval 12mths after it first proposed. NZ as also approved for potential order JJ and AZ (12m shots), but at this time not proceeded and still evaluating (July). I agree that NZ will likely proceed with either single shot J&J or AZ to vaccinate remote communties due to complexity of Pfizer logistics, which is why Australia also focused on AZ and Afrcia is being donated non-pfizer vaccines.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Holding the country together and fighting a virus, whilst Morrison did nothing but make announcements that turned out to be totally vacuous. Sorry one thing he did was 55 phone calls around the world to lobby for Cormann to get the top job at the OECD. Yet not one to Pfizer or any other vaccine producers
Oh rubbish

- Relying on NSW to return their own citizens from off-shore, then blaming NSW for an outbreak
- In the case of Qld, providing inhumane conditions on those in medical need who live in the Tweed region.
- Refusing to agree to opening up at 80% vaccination
- Wasting tax payers money building hotel Quaratine govt facilities to replace hotel Quaratine facilities that won't be open until well after 80% should be achieved and process less than they do now
- Black mailed the feds to force a reduction in returning Ozzies at short notice, multiple times.
- Vic refusing support from the feds to run their quaratine hotels, contracting out security who then slept with some of the guests and caused an outbreak.

The Feds have plenty of discussion with Pfizer, even their own PR say as much. What other producers do you wish them to speak with, Sinopharm, Spunik ?

Pfizer has limited production capacity from the start. Once you sign a contract you are in the queue for that date. No begging or pledding by any govt was able to change the queue order.  Pfizer has said they were able to ramp up slightly faster and deliver vaccines sooner.
Another  bunch of straw men You have no idea.  So Dan Andrews said 50 k  AZ available, 2 days ago he said we  had 70k, so what, On Monday the Vic Health Min   Martin Foley said Vic had run out of Pfizer, on Tuesday NSW Health MIn Brad Hazzard said NSW had run out of Pfizer. Today in the media Pfizer is available again in NSW, so Victoria and the other states to follow. And for under 50's Pfizer is the recommended vax.  Because of the totally bungled strollout this was supposed to have been done months ago. And now because  of Gladys and her incompetence and letting it rip strategy,  we're in deep do do  only being fully vaxxed at 37%
wobert
So you have vaccine availability and people complain the feds are the problem?

Pfizer stocks ran out and quickly replaced by a batch from UK.

As you now know 140m vaccines were ordered and 100m failed the testing phase at supplier level and production rates of AZ in Australia are behind targets because the private company making them has production issues.

Aaron has provided additional context.

Australia is hardly alone in its current position.

With the benefit of hindsight whats you plan?

Buy something not available, jab people with failed vaccines, steal vaccines from other countries, tell the Qld CHO to STFU?

Gladys didn't let it rip. Vic ansd NZ had supposidly better lockdown approach to contain and eliminate. Is anything different there. Ironically is the virus in the community and lockdowns that is driving people to get vaccinated where as before vaccination rates were lower than the delivery of the vaccines in recent weeks before the outbreak.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I believe a Winery in South Australia will be the first business in the country to mandate Vaccination for their staff and ALL Visitors as well, the first of many I would suggest.
lsrailfan
I mentioned a page or so back, Bird in the Hand in the Adelaide Hills.

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