Build more and convert the BG from Craigieburn all the way to tocumwal.
more SG to Seymour
Pinned post created by dthead
Posted 9 months ago
simstrain
Chief Commissioner
YM-Mundrabilla
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Build more and convert the BG from Craigieburn all the way to tocumwal.That is what should happen.
Should get up DD707's nose.
bevans
Site Admin
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Build more and convert the BG from Craigieburn all the way to tocumwal.That is what should happen.
Cannot happen until a better path into Melbourne from the North is available.
YM-Mundrabilla
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Dual gauge or gauntlet track via Royal Park. (ha ha)Build more and convert the BG from Craigieburn all the way to tocumwal.That is what should happen.
Cannot happen until a better path into Melbourne from the North is available.
Won't happen of course.
simstrain
Chief Commissioner
Never crossed my mindBuild more and convert the BG from Craigieburn all the way to tocumwal.That is what should happen.
Should get up DD707's nose.
.......
simstrain
Chief Commissioner
Build more and convert the BG from Craigieburn all the way to tocumwal.That is what should happen.
Cannot happen until a better path into Melbourne from the North is available.
Yes it can. ARTC should start duplicating the SG north from the flyover at broadmeadows.
simstrain
Chief Commissioner
SG runs right beside Broadmeadows and there is one SG platform already and so get the ARTC to add the second SG track which in turn helps with freight as well. Widen the alignment if need be and duplicate the SG to craigieburn and then convert everything north of there to SG. Run the SG trains to Shepparton the same way they run the Albury trains. Duplicated track just makes this more viable.
Yes it can. ARTC should start duplicating the SG north from the flyover at broadmeadows.
The best route is straight north out of Melbourne or extend the SG lines from the proposed SRL to Seymour with electrification. BG stops at Broady.
emmastreet
Chief Train Controller
Location: Goulburn Valley
If anyone wants to spend money on sg in Victoria let them sort out the Murray Basin mess first. Especially a sg path via Ballarat.
speedemon08
Mary
Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Completely forgetting about the Quarry train, which still runs to Westall.
Yes it can. ARTC should start duplicating the SG north from the flyover at broadmeadows.
The best route is straight north out of Melbourne or extend the SG lines from the proposed SRL to Seymour with electrification. BG stops at Broady.SG runs right beside Broadmeadows and there is one SG platform already and so get the ARTC to add the second SG track which in turn helps with freight as well. Widen the alignment if need be and duplicate the SG to craigieburn and then convert everything north of there to SG. Run the SG trains to Shepparton the same way they run the Albury trains. Duplicated track just makes this more viable.
james.au
Minister for Railways
Location: Sydney, NSW
If anyone wants to spend money on sg in Victoria let them sort out the Murray Basin mess first. Especially a sg path via Ballarat.I would have thought building synergy into existing SG track (ie the NESG) would have been a more logical place to start than the Murray Valley lines to be honest...
ngarner
Deputy Commissioner
Location: Seville
And the plans to spark as far as Wallan...
Yes it can. ARTC should start duplicating the SG north from the flyover at broadmeadows.
The best route is straight north out of Melbourne or extend the SG lines from the proposed SRL to Seymour with electrification. BG stops at Broady.SG runs right beside Broadmeadows and there is one SG platform already and so get the ARTC to add the second SG track which in turn helps with freight as well. Widen the alignment if need be and duplicate the SG to craigieburn and then convert everything north of there to SG. Run the SG trains to Shepparton the same way they run the Albury trains. Duplicated track just makes this more viable.
Completely forgetting about the Quarry train, which still runs to Westall.
Neil
Edit - not sure why the two previous post were merged but only the last sentence is Speedemon08's
justarider
Chief Commissioner
Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Before we spend another couple of BILLION dollars converting Deniliquin and Tocumwal to SG,
can @simstrain or @James.au identify one single dollar of additional business revenue that would happen.
It already been been done to Oaklands. How many of those trains go to Sydney or Adelaide? I will give you any easy hint. NONE.
cheers
John
can @simstrain or @James.au identify one single dollar of additional business revenue that would happen.
It already been been done to Oaklands. How many of those trains go to Sydney or Adelaide? I will give you any easy hint. NONE.
cheers
John
bevans
Site Admin
Location: Melbourne, Australia
If anyone wants to spend money on sg in Victoria let them sort out the Murray Basin mess first. Especially a sg path via Ballarat.
Excactly!
james.au
Minister for Railways
Location: Sydney, NSW
Before we spend another couple of BILLION dollars converting Deniliquin and Tocumwal to SG,I put the question the other way. What freight will be lost due to underinvestment in rail infrastructure? TAL upgrades are one thing but SG access to allow more operators onto the track, and lower the fleet overhead cost are another.
can @simstrain or @James.au identify one single dollar of additional business revenue that would happen.
It already been been done to Oaklands. How many of those trains go to Sydney or Adelaide? I will give you any easy hint. NONE.
cheers
John
justarider
Chief Commissioner
Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
So... you have no idea then.Before we spend another couple of BILLION dollars converting Deniliquin and Tocumwal to SG,I put the question the other way. What freight will be lost due to underinvestment in rail infrastructure? TAL upgrades are one thing but SG access to allow more operators onto the track, and lower the fleet overhead cost are another.
can @simstrain or @James.au identify one single dollar of additional business revenue that would happen.
It already been been done to Oaklands. How many of those trains go to Sydney or Adelaide? I will give you any easy hint. NONE.
cheers
John
What are the "more operators" going to carry? To where?
cheers
John
YM-Mundrabilla
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Maybe I am missing something - it wouldn't be the first time!Before we spend another couple of BILLION dollars converting Deniliquin and Tocumwal to SG,I put the question the other way. What freight will be lost due to underinvestment in rail infrastructure? TAL upgrades are one thing but SG access to allow more operators onto the track, and lower the fleet overhead cost are another.
can @simstrain or @James.au identify one single dollar of additional business revenue that would happen.
It already been been done to Oaklands. How many of those trains go to Sydney or Adelaide? I will give you any easy hint. NONE.
cheers
John
'... What freight will be lost due to underinvestment in rail infrastructure? ...'
Surely all of it.
'... TAL upgrades are one thing but SG access to allow more operators onto the track, and lower the fleet overhead cost are another. ..'
Standardisation, higher speeds and axleloads must encourage both more operators and improved operational efficiency?
I assume that TAL is an acronym for axleload where the 'T' is silent as in zeppelin?
Galron
Chief Commissioner
Location: Werribee, Vic
Before we spend another couple of BILLION dollars converting Deniliquin and Tocumwal to SG,In relation to Seymour-Tocumwall, there's been multiple attempts at re-activating the line north of Tocumwall in the last 10 years. There may even be business cases out there showing a positive return. A conversion of the Victorian side to SG may be enough to get the rest of it done.
can @simstrain or @James.au identify one single dollar of additional business revenue that would happen.
It already been been done to Oaklands. How many of those trains go to Sydney or Adelaide? I will give you any easy hint. NONE.
cheers
John
IMO a SG conversion of this line is the only way your likely to see the Dookie line re-activated, as it could/would be done at the same time as converting the BG up from Seymour. I Doubt the government is going to do it otherwise, despite reports a few years ago of private money being on the table to contribute.
As for deniliquin, given the issues the government is arguing with putting duel gauge through Ballarat station, i can see them making similar arguments at Echuca, even through they probably don't need to Duel Gauge anything there to SG the line north.
Lets hope the SG vlo's to Albury work and work well. it might be enough to show to the powers that be SG vlocities for western vic at the very least are a workable setup.
james.au
Minister for Railways
Location: Sydney, NSW
Equally, it appears you cannot answer my question (but Galron's below is a good start). This isnt the thread for this anyway so im not going to continue to restate my points ive raised in other threads.So... you have no idea then.Before we spend another couple of BILLION dollars converting Deniliquin and Tocumwal to SG,I put the question the other way. What freight will be lost due to underinvestment in rail infrastructure? TAL upgrades are one thing but SG access to allow more operators onto the track, and lower the fleet overhead cost are another.
can @simstrain or @James.au identify one single dollar of additional business revenue that would happen.
It already been been done to Oaklands. How many of those trains go to Sydney or Adelaide? I will give you any easy hint. NONE.
cheers
John
What are the "more operators" going to carry? To where?
cheers
John
BrentonGolding
Chief Commissioner
Location: Maldon Junction
Agreed, the issue of rolling stock has been talked about many times on FB before, rail companies are not keen to invest in Broad Gauge rolling stock to service an islanded and small network when they can get much more bang for buck on SG and this may result in a loss of traffic in the medium to long termBefore we spend another couple of BILLION dollars converting Deniliquin and Tocumwal to SG,I put the question the other way. What freight will be lost due to underinvestment in rail infrastructure? TAL upgrades are one thing but SG access to allow more operators onto the track, and lower the fleet overhead cost are another.
can @simstrain or @James.au identify one single dollar of additional business revenue that would happen.
It already been been done to Oaklands. How many of those trains go to Sydney or Adelaide? I will give you any easy hint. NONE.
cheers
John
justarider
Chief Commissioner
Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
NSWGR can re-open the SG line to Tocumwal to Nerrandera any time they like.Before we spend another couple of BILLION dollars converting Deniliquin and Tocumwal to SG,In relation to Seymour-Tocumwall, there's been multiple attempts at re-activating the line north of Tocumwall in the last 10 years. There may even be business cases out there showing a positive return. A conversion of the Victorian side to SG may be enough to get the rest of it done.
can @simstrain or @James.au identify one single dollar of additional business revenue that would happen.
It already been been done to Oaklands. How many of those trains go to Sydney or Adelaide? I will give you any easy hint. NONE.
cheers
John
Since it hasn't been done in the last 30 years, maybe its far too expensive for the revenue potential.
But what the heck, let's ask Victoria DOT to stump up a few BIILLION dollars, turn the passenger network smeg up, for no discernible income.
cheers
John
justarider
Chief Commissioner
Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Sure start up your SG nonsense at any oportunity, but then run off when asked to actually quantify the money.Equally, it appears you cannot answer my question (but Galron's below is a good start). This isnt the thread for this anyway so im not going to continue to restate my points ive raised in other threads.I put the question the other way. What freight will be lost due to underinvestment in rail infrastructure? TAL upgrades are one thing but SG access to allow more operators onto the track, and lower the fleet overhead cost are another.So... you have no idea then.
What are the "more operators" going to carry? To where?
cheers
John
trainbrain
Chief Commissioner
open it at antime, I do not think so, line has crumpled in many places, rail and road bridges gone, even the big road over rail bridge on the newell hwsy out Jerilderie way now sits by itslef as part of the Hwy now sits on the rail reservation.......total rebuild would be required for little or no traffic.NSWGR can re-open the SG line to Tocumwal to Nerrandera any time they like.Before we spend another couple of BILLION dollars converting Deniliquin and Tocumwal to SG,In relation to Seymour-Tocumwall, there's been multiple attempts at re-activating the line north of Tocumwall in the last 10 years. There may even be business cases out there showing a positive return. A conversion of the Victorian side to SG may be enough to get the rest of it done.
can @simstrain or @James.au identify one single dollar of additional business revenue that would happen.
It already been been done to Oaklands. How many of those trains go to Sydney or Adelaide? I will give you any easy hint. NONE.
cheers
John
Since it hasn't been done in the last 30 years, maybe its far too expensive for the revenue potential.
But what the heck, let's ask Victoria DOT to stump up a few BIILLION dollars, turn the passenger network smeg up, for no discernible income.
cheers
John
james.au
Minister for Railways
Location: Sydney, NSW
Sure start up your SG nonsense at any oportunity, but then run off when asked to actually quantify the money.Equally, it appears you cannot answer my question (but Galron's below is a good start). This isnt the thread for this anyway so im not going to continue to restate my points ive raised in other threads.I put the question the other way. What freight will be lost due to underinvestment in rail infrastructure? TAL upgrades are one thing but SG access to allow more operators onto the track, and lower the fleet overhead cost are another.So... you have no idea then.
What are the "more operators" going to carry? To where?
cheers
John
Mate this is not the sort of conversation I come to RP for. I suggest you take a few minutes or the rest of the day and get some perspective. There is no need to start getting personal about this.
And this is way off topic. SG VLo talk please. Any initial feedback on its run?
simstrain
Chief Commissioner
OK sorry did not know about that. Well then you could do one track dual gauge to satisfy this requirement. Where does the quarry train come from?
Yes it can. ARTC should start duplicating the SG north from the flyover at broadmeadows.
The best route is straight north out of Melbourne or extend the SG lines from the proposed SRL to Seymour with electrification. BG stops at Broady.SG runs right beside Broadmeadows and there is one SG platform already and so get the ARTC to add the second SG track which in turn helps with freight as well. Widen the alignment if need be and duplicate the SG to craigieburn and then convert everything north of there to SG. Run the SG trains to Shepparton the same way they run the Albury trains. Duplicated track just makes this more viable.Completely forgetting about the Quarry train, which still runs to Westall.
Gman_86
Chief Commissioner
Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
The Quarry train runs twice per day. It is loaded with aggregate at Hanson's Kilmore East siding, then runs to Hanson's facilities at both Brooklyn and Westall to unload. Usually the first train of the day runs to Brooklyn and the second train runs to Westall.
Another thing to consider is the SRHC. It would be a real shame for their growing collection of broad gauge rollingstock to suddenly find itself cut off from the rest of the broad gauge network.
The simplest option would be to retain broad gauge to Seymour, and to duplicate the existing standard gauge line.
This is of course does nothing to address the issues of access between Southern Cross and Tottenham, which will struggle to handle a further 10 trains each way per day to and from Shepparton (which is what Shepparton is expecting to receive in the near future.)
--
More to the point, does anybody know how the trial runs have gone?
Another thing to consider is the SRHC. It would be a real shame for their growing collection of broad gauge rollingstock to suddenly find itself cut off from the rest of the broad gauge network.
The simplest option would be to retain broad gauge to Seymour, and to duplicate the existing standard gauge line.
This is of course does nothing to address the issues of access between Southern Cross and Tottenham, which will struggle to handle a further 10 trains each way per day to and from Shepparton (which is what Shepparton is expecting to receive in the near future.)
--
More to the point, does anybody know how the trial runs have gone?
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