Future of Sydney’s Electric Rolling Stock (K/C/V Sets)

 
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
That's good to hear, the less NIFs the better IMHO.
I once heard a rumor on a CPH railmotor trip at the last heritage expo that some V sets would be sold to Indian Railways, though I highly doubt that It'll ever happen. (Different gauges, voltage, loading gauge, etc.) It was from a late-teen LVHR volunteer, not the most reliable source.

I wish that more static preservation would happen, especially in public places. You have the convenience of not having to get the train moving, making a new public park and also a landmark.
Griffinrails Official
That rumour came up on this forum several years ago as a suggestion for what to do with the retired V set carriages, the chances of anything similar occurring is zero.

I get your point regarding static preservation, but the overarching issue is money. In order to keep a locomotive or carriage on display in the middle of a park it needs to be preserved to a certain level, preservation is not cheap.
One other factor that could be listed as a contributor is Phillip Shirley, however I won't go down that rabbit hole.

Something that all railfans need to come to terms with is the fact that not everything can be preserved, just because one carriage was used in a certain commercial or certain service does not mean that it should be preserved.
The "preserve everything possible" mentality that was core during the formation of everything from the NSWRTM to SETS is now coming back to bite the groups in the behind. Just take one good look at Thirlmere, even with about 30 items stored throughout the state, their main shed is almost completely filled.
SETS is an even more substantial example, they have heaps of carriages spread around the state with no place to put them.
Modern day preservation should (in my opinion at least) be limited to items that have a large to significant amount of historical significance, not items that have only a slight amount of significance to a small niche group.
The preservation and continuing maintenance of historical items like C3102, the only surviving carriage from the first all electric train in the history of Sydney, should not be sacrificed to preserve a K set, whose only claim to fame is being the first fully airconditioned train type in Sydney.
Preservation groups only have access to small amounts of money per year. That money should be spent preserving historically significant items, not obtaining items that have a small claim to fame.

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  Griffinrails Official Locomotive Driver

Location: Dunno. (help i'm lost)
Agreed. Eventually if you try to save everything you turn into Dorrigo 2 - Electric Boogaloo.
  sunnyyan Station Master

There also needs to be enough trains to allow all the Tangara trains to undergo the Tangara Technology Upgrade. Until then, nothing will happen.

The only way I can see everyone being happy is to send the Mariyung trains back to South Korea. Then converting all of the sets to allow Guard and Driver only operation. It would be very expensive, and would set the project back for years.

This brings me to another question. What the heck (that is one of the only bad words I'll say here, unless if things mess up big time) is going on with the Tangara Technology Upgrade? It was supposed to be done over 3 years ago! That also needs to be done to get all the trains up to modern standards!
AheadMatthewawsome
They don't need any more trains to allow the TTU to proceed. They will upgrade a maximum of 4 sets (2 8-car sets) at a time, which the current timetable already allows for.

With the NIF being converted back to guard operation, I don't see it being that difficult. At most, they'll only need to cut out the traction interlocking from the crew doors and install door controls and a monitor where the guard stands. It could probably be done at Kangy Angy or some other UGL workshop.

With the TTU, the project has completely stalled. I believe the contract with UGL has been cancelled and Sydney Trains are trying to do it in-house. I've heard its due to too many variations between sets in the fleet.
  Griffinrails Official Locomotive Driver

Location: Dunno. (help i'm lost)
Honestly, I thought that the project had been canned years ago lol. Planned to be done in 2018, only 2 sets have been converted, and they have NEVER entered service.
Good news for preservation groups though, now it's possible for them to have a chance at getting one to operate now that they won't have as many computers.
It's likely that SETS will try and preserve a K set (and will most likely be their flagship if they get their hands on it) since they're quite reliable, the Gen 2 trains would be extinct bringing in the general public factor, and they can run it with the S set if wanted. C5 could have been their prime train for tours, but after a bunch of AC faults and covid now they're set back a couple years it seems.
And yes, then you have the space issue, we all know about that. It's likely that it would be VERY hard to preserve them, and it will most likely end up like their rattlers, some in a shed in Bilpin, and others rotting away at Chullora.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
The biggest obstacle that I see in the future for railway preservation as a whole is people.
The prime demographic of people who work with preservation societies is older people, a large percentage of whom join for the nostalgia of the steam era (or the red rattler era). I can't remember the source but I do remember seeing a statistic somewhere regarding THNSW that stated the average volunteer age was 70, a number that is only slightly over a decade off from the average age of death in Australia.

Combine this with the declining numbers of younger people getting involved with railways in general for several reasons and you have a recipe for a rail preservation disaster.
  Griffinrails Official Locomotive Driver

Location: Dunno. (help i'm lost)
That's what i meant to say. Could be updating the C set page? Rebuilding the site from scratch like HET did? Maybe it's just down forever?
Perhaps someone else bought the domain rights?
Removing out-of-date pages?
  Griffinrails Official Locomotive Driver

Location: Dunno. (help i'm lost)
Good to hear.
Also, the D set runs on the SCO today seem to have been cancelled.
Learnt that the hard way by standing around at Janalli carpark for 20 minutes like an idiot.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Test runs do not always occur as tabled, as you have learnt. Think of test run timetables as ‘paths the trains *could* use’.
  C3765 Train Controller

Noticed a V-Set trailer car loaded on a truck at Auburn earlier today. Anyone know why? There’s a slight chance it was just a empty truck parked in front of the line V-Set car.
  Griffinrails Official Locomotive Driver

Location: Dunno. (help i'm lost)
Really? Got no idea what it could be.
Was it at the Maintrain facility?
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Noticed a V-Set trailer car loaded on a truck at Auburn earlier today. Anyone know why? There’s a slight chance it was just a empty truck parked in front of the line V-Set car.
C3765
They recently scrapped all the DCM DCT cars out the back of Maintrain. They were moved by road.

It might be that it's been sold to a private buyer as a greenhouse, etc.
AheadMatthewawsome
Given the cars do not meet height standards internally to be turned into buildings, this won’t happen.
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

To accommodate the continuation of the Tangara TTU Project, 2 x 8T set Rosters have been deleted from the Timetable commencing November 20, and 2 x 8K set Rosters have been added.

In turn a re-allocation of set-types between Sector 2 and 3 will take place.


Weekday Roster changes Sector 2 (T2, T3, T5 and T8 services) from Monday, November 22:-
8A set Rosters increased from 19 to 20.
8B set Rosters reduced from 37 to 34.
8K set Rosters increased from 8 to 10.
No change to 11 x 8M set Rosters working Sector 2 Services.
No change to 6 x 4M set Rosters working Y-Link services.
No change to 2 x 4M set Rosters working Olympic Park Sprint Services.

Weekday Roster changes Sector 3 (T1 & T9 services) from Monday, November 22:-
8T set Rosters reduced from 17 to 15.
8A set Rosters reduced from 53 to 52.
8B set Rosters added is 3, total is 3.

Weekend Roster changes Sector 2 (T2, T3, T5 and T8 services) from Saturday, November 20:-
8B set Rosters reduced from 36 to 35.
8A set Rosters increased from 7 to 8.
No change to 1 x 8T set Roster working Sector 2 Services
No change to 4 x 4M set Rosters working Y-Link services.

No change to Weekend Rosters Sector 3 (T1 & T9 services) from Saturday, November 20:-
 5 x 8T set Rosters.
36 x 8A set Rosters.
 2 x 8A set Rosters working Olympic Park Sprint Services.
  alleve Station Master

Location: T4 Illawarra Line
Good to see them finally starting the TTU again. Who's doing it now? I read somewhere that UGL got released from their contract.
  Griffinrails Official Locomotive Driver

Location: Dunno. (help i'm lost)
If that's the case, them will we see another measuring transfer? A different refurb design?
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Good to see them finally starting the TTU again. Who's doing it now? I read somewhere that UGL got released from their contract.
alleve
Rumour I have heard is in-house.
  Griffinrails Official Locomotive Driver

Location: Dunno. (help i'm lost)
TTU UPDATE (apparently)
According to several friends I know, the only changes to the Tangaras from now on will be:
-Fixed destination boards
-ATP (completed)

This means that T72 and T106 will be unique, their internal destination boards will be either the only ones to be used or will be switched off eternally, another failed upgrade like T65 or the longitudinal/2X2 seating cars.
  alleve Station Master

Location: T4 Illawarra Line
If it is true and they're just doing ATP and external destos, why ditch the internal destos? Surely out of all the upgrades they wanted to pull off, internal destos is one of the less complicated. Pulling back on some of the other upgrades makes sense though, especially if they're doing it in house (another thing that's AFAIK unconfirmed)
  C3765 Train Controller

Good news for the V-Set fans. The V-Set fleet will likely remain for longer than we expected after the recent announcement by Transport for NSW that they expect an 18-month delay for the remaining D-Sets.

As for the Tangara upgrade, I remember some time ago either SETS or HET revealed that the S-Sets were removed from FMC to allow FMC to join HMC in upgrading the Tangaras in-house using T72 and T106 as a reference.

I’m pretty sure the sets being upgraded at Hornsby were T128/76 and T40/100 (based on photos of the upgrade). This was all the way back in March.

The claims about changes to the upgrade design is questionable. Probably just a rumour.
  Griffinrails Official Locomotive Driver

Location: Dunno. (help i'm lost)
I'm starting to think the V sets are immortal at this point. To be fair, there are a whopping FIVE variants that have operated.
  alleve Station Master

Location: T4 Illawarra Line
Have the unions and the Govt figured out the D Sets yet, or are they still at each other's throats? I feel like that's probably the deciding factor as to how long the V Sets last
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
AIUI, it's still a sticking point of the EBA negotiations.

Having worked DOO on freighters for more than a decade, I certainly don't miss having a Coey, but in saying that, there have been multiple instances of people falling between the platform coping and a DOO train dispatched using nothing more than lineside CCTV and that person subsequently being killed  - both in Australia and abroad, and that doesn't factor in any injuries either. Having a Guard would likely have prevented such incidents and would do so in the future as well.

A UK example and one from Melbourne too.
  Nichole the Otter Station Master

Hey that was my photo! And to correct you, the set was T52, not T53. I was lucky to get T52/T73 on my ride home because I hadn’t seen them earlier. Would have looked through the whole set if it wasn’t peak, though.

I heard they went to Penrith Yard after terminating that service at Blacktown, so there’s a chance they might be running again today. Hopefully I can track them down so I can get a more proper look at the upgrades.
  Griffinrails Official Locomotive Driver

Location: Dunno. (help i'm lost)
Nice. I wonder if they'll ever end up running on the T4, it would be cool to see it on my school commute.
I once rode T65 yet didn't realise until I got off and didn't even get to film since my phone was dead!
  alleve Station Master

Location: T4 Illawarra Line
Hey that was my photo! And to correct you, the set was T52, not T53. I was lucky to get T52/T73 on my ride home because I hadn’t seen them earlier. Would have looked through the whole set if it wasn’t peak, though.

I heard they went to Penrith Yard after terminating that service at Blacktown, so there’s a chance they might be running again today. Hopefully I can track them down so I can get a more proper look at the upgrades.
Nichole the Otter
The newer design railings and priority seating are in the photo. Did you see if the interior and exterior destos were working?

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