The corona virus COVID-19

 
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
And there we have it folks. Quarantine-free international travel into and out of NSW from the 1st of November (2021 for the nay-sayers who would say it's not Nov 1 this year :}).

Looks like you can go from Sydney to Paris before you can go to Perth. Or Brussels before you can go to Brisbane. Or Milan before you can go to Melbourne.

What a great C(o?)untry we live in.

Too bad The Dom isn't going to ban outright unvaccinated travellers. Let other states deal with them and the risk for a change! Mad
NSW to scrap quarantine for international arrivals from November 1 in major policy shift

NSW will open its borders to fully vaccinated international travellers — who will no longer need to quarantine in hotels, or at home — from next month.

Key points:
  • Unvaccinated travellers will still have to enter hotel quarantine but there will only be around 200 spots per week
  • NSW is the first state or territory to lift the requirement for quarantine
  • People from Sydney will not be able to travel to regional NSW until November 1

In a major policy shift, Premier Dominic Perrottet announced people from his state would "be travelling to Bali before Broome" when the reforms come into effect on November 1.
People wanting to arrive in Sydney from overseas will need to show proof they've received a TGA-approved vaccine, and undertake a PCR test for COVID-19 before they board their flight. "We are opening Sydney and NSW to the world, and that date will come in on November 1. [We] will work closely with the Commonwealth to ensure protections are in place so we keep people safe [as we] rejoin the world," Mr Perrottet said.

Since March 2020 all states and territories have required all overseas passengers to quarantine in hotels, at their own expense, for 14 days. Last month, then-premier Gladys Berejiklian announced a trial of home quarantine for eligible international arrivals but her successor, Mr Perrottet, has now pressed fast-forward on this transition. NSW is the only state to announce quarantine-free international travel. All interstate borders to NSW remain closed.

"We can't live here in hermit kingdom. So many businesses [here] rely on tourism for business and trade," Mr Perrottet said. Anyone who is not fully vaccinated will still be required to enter hotel quarantine but there will only be 210 spots available per week. Tourism Minister Stuart Ayres said the November 1 date was chosen as it gave airlines two weeks to put on extra flights to NSW. The announcement comes as the state recorded 399 locally acquired COVID-19 cases and four deaths in the 24 hours to 8:00pm yesterday. Source
The ABC

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  303gunner Train Controller

"All Interstate borders to NSW remian closed". Only to NSW residents, any interstate residents can enter their home state from NSW (usually by Air), but must immediately quarantine on arrival.

So while people from Perth, Brisbane, or Melbourne can come to Sydney to commence their overseas holiday, when they return to Aust, they will be allowed free entry to NSW ,and return to see out their Quarantine period in their home states. Finally, the other states will be bearing the responsibility of the quarantining of their own residents, while NSW's economy picks up the tourism dollar.

Other Premiers will naturally protest, saying this is unfairly shifting the costs onto them while NSW reaps the benefits.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
"All Interstate borders to NSW remian closed". Only to NSW residents, any interstate residents can enter their home state from NSW (usually by Air), but must immediately quarantine on arrival.

So while people from Perth, Brisbane, or Melbourne can come to Sydney to commence their overseas holiday, when they return to Aust, they will be allowed free entry to NSW ,and return to see out their Quarantine period in their home states. Finally, the other states will be bearing the responsibility of the quarantining of their own residents, while NSW's economy picks up the tourism dollar.

Other Premiers will naturally protest, saying this is unfairly shifting the costs onto them while NSW reaps the benefits.
303gunner
Hotel quarantine is supposed to be cost-neutral, the whole pay-thousands-to-the-Government so you can enter, kind of deal.

NSW has carried the can for the last 18 months, WTF should they not be able to enjoy the spoils of interstate travelers staying in NSW until such time as their own paranoid premiers decide to reopen their respective states?

What NSW should be doing is saying "Right, we've done it for so many for so long, as of November 1 there will not be any quarantine in NSW. If you are un-vaccinated, find another capital city to enter through, or get your vaccine. We're over carrying WA, QLD, Vic, Tas, SA, etc, you lot step up and look after your own Citizens now"
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

As this only applies to fully vaccinated people who have a negative test, I don't see it as a problem COVID wise.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
It seems as though Dom has LIED to the NSW Public today, under the Glady's roadmap, it states that once NSW hits 80% double vaccinated, the regions will become open to Sydney, 80% for NSW will be tomorrow I think, this was put back a week until October 25th, then, today he comes out and says Nov 1st!! man, talk about vote killing!!, each way Dom anyone??
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

C'mon you Mexican's, dig deep! With a bit more effort you can break the 2,000 mark and still have a case rate less than half the UK - who are still racking up 40,000 a day. Razz
KRviator
Well done Danistan, awesome work, setting new records in Covid mediocrity every week.Laughing

2,297 new cases today, a new record for the so-called "nation" of Australia. It's heartening to see those soul-destroying lockdowns (that made Melbourne the most-detained-city on the planet) and arresting kiddies for daring to use a playground is working sooooo well to keep numbers down.

And yet, I still cannot visit my rellies in Sicktoria, lest I bring the pestilence with me from NSW. I dungeddit....

On a serious note now, though, 11 deaths isn't even worth writing home about, really in the big scheme of things - and for what we have given up and are continuing to do so in the case of our Mexican readers, I think a lot of people are starting to seriously question whether or not it has all been worth it?

Because from where I sit, the answer is a most definite NO!
KRviator

From the Commonwealth Department of Health website. As at 14 Oct 2021:

Covid cases in hospital:   NSW 711     VIC 706
Covid cases in ICU:           NSW 143     VIC 147
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

It seems as though Dom has LIED to the NSW Public today, under the Glady's roadmap, it states that once NSW hits 80% double vaccinated, the regions will become open to Sydney, 80% for NSW will be tomorrow I think, this was put back a week until October 25th, then, today he comes out and says Nov 1st!! man, talk about vote killing!!, each way Dom anyone??
lsrailfan
Regional NSW is well behind Sydney in vaccinations. Regional areas had vaccinations redirected to the hot spots during the peak of the outbreak.

Targeting those LGAs of concern intensely was definitely the right strategy. It seems in Victoria they didn't really pull out all stops to prioritise get Hume vaccinated. I think we would be in a better position is they really pushed vaccination harder in the western suburbs.
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
It seems as though Dom has LIED to the NSW Public today, under the Glady's roadmap, it states that once NSW hits 80% double vaccinated, the regions will become open to Sydney, 80% for NSW will be tomorrow I think, this was put back a week until October 25th, then, today he comes out and says Nov 1st!! man, talk about vote killing!!, each way Dom anyone??
Regional NSW is well behind Sydney in vaccinations. Regional areas had vaccinations redirected to the hot spots during the peak of the outbreak.

Targeting those LGAs of concern intensely was definitely the right strategy. It seems in Victoria they didn't really pull out all stops to prioritise get Hume vaccinated. I think we would be in a better position is they really pushed vaccination harder in the western suburbs.
Mr. Lane
Dosen't matter, his Govt has told untruths, Sydney's vaccinations are (in most parts) through the roof.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Hobart is going into a snap lockdown.

Good luck with COVID Zero states opening up to NSW (or Vic) any time soon.
  303gunner Train Controller

It seems as though Dom has LIED to the NSW Public today, under the Glady's roadmap, it states that once NSW hits 80% double vaccinated, the regions will become open to Sydney, 80% for NSW will be tomorrow I think, this was put back a week until October 25th, then, today he comes out and says Nov 1st!! man, talk about vote killing!!, each way Dom anyone??
Regional NSW is well behind Sydney in vaccinations. Regional areas had vaccinations redirected to the hot spots during the peak of the outbreak.

Targeting those LGAs of concern intensely was definitely the right strategy. It seems in Victoria they didn't really pull out all stops to prioritise get Hume vaccinated. I think we would be in a better position is they really pushed vaccination harder in the western suburbs.
Dosen't matter, his Govt has told untruths, Sydney's vaccinations are (in most parts) through the roof.
lsrailfan
Stop trying to paint Pollies as pathological liars, it wears a bit thin.

Forecasts don't play out as expected, situations change, plans change. Nothing is rigid, and should not be rigid. The rules MUST relate to the risk, not to a calendar. Doesn't mean anyone lied or deliberately tried to deceive the public. If the Regional vaccination rates aren't high enough, then the RESPONSIBLE thing to do is wait until they are.

If he didn't respond to the facts of the situation and opened up, you'd be complaining he had blood on his hands by opening up the Regions too soon. Part of the reason he is not opening up the regions to Greater Sydney is because of the pleading from Local Councils who say they do not want the risk of irresponsible people from Sydney. Should he be consultative and listen to local points of view, or be dictatorial and force them to comply?
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Hobart is going into a snap lockdown.

Good luck with COVID Zero states opening up to NSW (or Vic) any time soon.
Mr. Lane
The Tasmanian government is doing what all but one other state government was doing earlier this year, also what the Northern Territory government did. In their case, at least 3 days of draconian measures in the south of Apple Isle. Quarantine free travel is also being implemented too soon in New South Wales. Mad Contrary to some unfounded claims mostly be Aaron, there is a chance that the vaccine could eliminate community transmission once available to all.

"We can't live here in hermit kingdom. So many businesses [here] rely on tourism for business and trade" - Does this include businesses (like public transport) that we might not think of tourism as benefiting?
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
It seems as though Dom has LIED to the NSW Public today, under the Glady's roadmap, it states that once NSW hits 80% double vaccinated, the regions will become open to Sydney, 80% for NSW will be tomorrow I think, this was put back a week until October 25th, then, today he comes out and says Nov 1st!! man, talk about vote killing!!, each way Dom anyone??
Regional NSW is well behind Sydney in vaccinations. Regional areas had vaccinations redirected to the hot spots during the peak of the outbreak.

Targeting those LGAs of concern intensely was definitely the right strategy. It seems in Victoria they didn't really pull out all stops to prioritise get Hume vaccinated. I think we would be in a better position is they really pushed vaccination harder in the western suburbs.
Dosen't matter, his Govt has told untruths, Sydney's vaccinations are (in most parts) through the roof.
Stop trying to paint Pollies as pathological liars, it wears a bit thin.

Forecasts don't play out as expected, situations change, plans change. Nothing is rigid, and should not be rigid. The rules MUST relate to the risk, not to a calendar. Doesn't mean anyone lied or deliberately tried to deceive the public. If the Regional vaccination rates aren't high enough, then the RESPONSIBLE thing to do is wait until they are.

If he didn't respond to the facts of the situation and opened up, you'd be complaining he had blood on his hands by opening up the Regions too soon. Part of the reason he is not opening up the regions to Greater Sydney is because of the pleading from Local Councils who say they do not want the risk of irresponsible people from Sydney. Should he be consultative and listen to local points of view, or be dictatorial and force them to comply?
303gunner
Look, you may be right, but it is frustrating for those that have booked on holiday's and whatnot from the 25th date, that's all I'm complaining about really.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Stop trying to paint Pollies as pathological liars, it wears a bit thin.

Forecasts don't play out as expected, situations change, plans change. Nothing is rigid, and should not be rigid. The rules MUST relate to the risk, not to a calendar. Doesn't mean anyone lied or deliberately tried to deceive the public. If the Regional vaccination rates aren't high enough, then the RESPONSIBLE thing to do is wait until they are.

If he didn't respond to the facts of the situation and opened up, you'd be complaining he had blood on his hands by opening up the Regions too soon. Part of the reason he is not opening up the regions to Greater Sydney is because of the pleading from Local Councils who say they do not want the risk of irresponsible people from Sydney. Should he be consultative and listen to local points of view, or be dictatorial and force them to comply?
303gunner
Isn’t it time that RP had a Humour forum? Funny how this logic is only applied to NSW leaders, including the Prime Minister for NSW, or more accurately, Inner Sydney.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
What do you mean "prime minister for NSW"?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Regional NSW is well behind Sydney in vaccinations. Regional areas had vaccinations redirected to the hot spots during the peak of the outbreak.

Targeting those LGAs of concern intensely was definitely the right strategy. It seems in Victoria they didn't really pull out all stops to prioritise get Hume vaccinated. I think we would be in a better position is they really pushed vaccination harder in the western suburbs.
Mr. Lane


Another factor might be distribution errors, such as this, by the Commonwealth-funded Primary Health Networks and the National COVID Vaccine Taskforce in Sydney:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-01/rural-gp-clinic-forced-to-cancel-covid-vaccination-appointments/100488074

The PHN mentioned also covers Albury. The Sarkon Medical Centre, referred to in the article, is in Lavington, NSW.

Each state only has about a 50% say in the application of the program in its particular state.
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Victoria has made major adjustments to the reopening roadmap. Surprisingly, the end of many restrictions will be brought forward to 70%.

The lockdown ends after Thursday.

  • Originally visitors to the home were still not allowed at 70%. This will now be changed to 10 allowed.
  • 15 people allowed to gather outdoors (I think it is 5 now?)
  • Limited indoor dining will be allowed. This was previously only outdoor.
  • Pubs and clubs can open to 20 fully vaccinated people indoors and 50 people outdoors, not sure if the outdoors need to be vaccinated.
  • Some restrictions will remain until 80% of the OVER 12s are fully vaccinated.
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Some restrictions should probably remain even after 80% of the over 12s are vaccinated as this is still not 80%, let alone 90% of the general population of all ages. If we can achieve herd immunity, we should really achieve that before removing especially requirements than encourage those to get vaccinated. I know Aaron claims herd immunity is not possible, but we won't know the herd immunity threshold until the vaccine is available to all.
Even then, there may still be a case for, say, mask wearing on public transport and in taxis, think of the flu.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
It seems as though Dom has LIED to the NSW Public today, under the Glady's roadmap, it states that once NSW hits 80% double vaccinated, the regions will become open to Sydney, 80% for NSW will be tomorrow I think, this was put back a week until October 25th, then, today he comes out and says Nov 1st!! man, talk about vote killing!!, each way Dom anyone??
lsrailfan
Merely hitting 80% shouldn’t be enough. NSW really needs to get to 80% protected, not 80% double vaccinated, that means 80% double vaccinated + 2 weeks.

Dom is a liar? He might be an idiot, but not a liar yet, and ‘each way Dom’? These from you, the person that chose to label NSW as ‘world beating’ by seemingly selectively choosing to ignore all the locations in the world that have beaten NSW… That’s pretty much lying you know. Even taking it as just it being a region, it’s still not correct to say you’re world beating - I think you’re the ‘each way’ man.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Some restrictions should probably remain even after 80% of the over 12s are vaccinated as this is still not 80%, let alone 90% of the general population of all ages. If we can achieve herd immunity, we should really achieve that before removing especially requirements than encourage those to get vaccinated. I know Aaron claims herd immunity is not possible, but we won't know the herd immunity threshold until the vaccine is available to all.
Even then, there may still be a case for, say, mask wearing on public transport and in taxis, think of the flu.
Myrtone
The herd immunity threshold is known, I calculated it in the early pages of this very thread.
I've read and I'm told it isn't.
Read more, it's a trivial mathematical formula, it relies on a few assumptions, and these assumptions will tell you why the level of immunisation is not available. It's not because the calculation is too difficult, or impossible, it's purely because there are exactly zero vaccines on the market, or in development that satisfy the required assumptions. Namely, an effectively zero rate of transmission post vaccination.


What we need is a vaccine that can actually provide immunity in the sense of being able to achieve herd immunity. This does not exist anywhere in the world at the present time.
How can you claim that when those who are vaccinated are less likely to test positive and even less likely to infect others? If a some other vaccine does not provide immunity, then transmission among those who have had it should be just as common as among the unvaccinated. But transmission of SARS-CoV-2 among those vaccinated against it is a lot less common than among those who are not vaccinated against it.
And again, the U.A.E, with it's high vaccine uptake and a population of over 9 million is now recording less than 150 new cases a day. Surely that would not happen if currently available vaccines did not provide immunity.This has been mentioned so many times that I cannot believe you still don't get it.

Like someone else, I will refer you to these articles in Nature. Proper science from people and reviewed by people that don't smeg up when it comes to knowing what they know.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02948-4

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00728-2

I'll literally underline it for you...

Herd immunity is only relevant if we have a transmission blocking vaccine.


'Herd immunity' used in the context of our current set of vaccination options for Covid is meaningless.
Aaron

It’s got nothing to do with my opinion by the way, it’s a cold hearted mathematical fact, the vaccination ratio for herd immunity is a trivial calculation.

What we don’t have is not a lack of understanding or data, it’s a lack of effective (in terms of what you want) vaccine.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
It seems as though Dom has LIED to the NSW Public today, under the Glady's roadmap, it states that once NSW hits 80% double vaccinated, the regions will become open to Sydney, 80% for NSW will be tomorrow I think, this was put back a week until October 25th, then, today he comes out and says Nov 1st!! man, talk about vote killing!!, each way Dom anyone??
Regional NSW is well behind Sydney in vaccinations. Regional areas had vaccinations redirected to the hot spots during the peak of the outbreak.

Targeting those LGAs of concern intensely was definitely the right strategy. It seems in Victoria they didn't really pull out all stops to prioritise get Hume vaccinated. I think we would be in a better position is they really pushed vaccination harder in the western suburbs.
Dosen't matter, his Govt has told untruths, Sydney's vaccinations are (in most parts) through the roof.
lsrailfan
That all depends on how high up you think the roof is…
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Melbourne coming out of lockdown thursday evening midnight.  Still cannot travel to the country but a good step, but less than NSW in terms of freedoms.
  wobert Chief Commissioner
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Melbourne coming out of lockdown thursday evening midnight.  Still cannot travel to the country but a good step, but less than NSW in terms of freedoms.
bevans
So now we can have 20 (?) people in a restaurant, apparently regardless of size, or are they not telling us that 20 (?) is a maximum regardless of floor area. Is there an overriding 'secret' rule and that patrons per 2 or 4 (?) square metres could mean fewer than 20 in small areas?
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
Melbourne coming out of lockdown thursday evening midnight.  Still cannot travel to the country but a good step, but less than NSW in terms of freedoms.
How about travelling into quarantine at Howard Springs in the northern territory?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Melbourne coming out of lockdown thursday evening midnight.  Still cannot travel to the country but a good step, but less than NSW in terms of freedoms.
So now we can have 20 (?) people in a restaurant, apparently regardless of size, or are they not telling us that 20 (?) is a maximum regardless of floor area. Is there an overriding 'secret' rule and that patrons per 2 or 4 (?) square metres could mean fewer than 20 in small areas?
YM-Mundrabilla
The 20 max patrons irrespective of venue size is I think due to Vic Health conceding that they cannot contain spread. Hence, given that spread is acknowledged in Victoria as a certainty, 20 max patrons means 20 max contacts for tracers to track down, since we know that apparently Victorian contact tracers are using slates, hammers, chisels, abacus and carrier pigeons to record, track, and notify cases, this will hopefully make their job easier.

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