Re-naming Melbourne's Metro lines

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 06 Dec 2021 10:31
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Why would you trouble locallers who know roughly which direction is which, who constitute to the majority of the patronage?

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  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Because you need to cater to everyone.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Colour coding doesn't make them more identifiable.  It's common sense that if you want to go to Frankston, take a Frankston line train.  If you don't know the general direction of the intermediate suburbs, you'll need to check the network map but you'll have to do the same if you colour-coded them.  In fact, you don't even need to identify the cross-city group as most people don't care where the train goes after arriving in the City.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
It makes them easier to understand though, particularly for those where English isn't a strong point. A bit like what you get with route numbers, the end user can use their native language where required.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I suggest doing some reading on breaking down communication barriers. Because that's essentially what I'm saying we should do.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
In Sydney, the T1, T2 etc is basically meaningless to a visiting traveller like me. The stylized map of the Sydney trains network is easy to use, with all stations shown.
Only this morning, I wanted a train to Domestic Airport. At Central, I looked at the departure information. Aha! a train to Macarthur is going via the airport stations, from platform 23. It could be T2 or T222 or T for 2, and it wouldn't help. Common sense use of the readily available information is a piece of cake for anyone.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
In Sydney, the T1, T2 etc is basically meaningless to a visiting traveller like me. The stylized map of the Sydney trains network is easy to use, with all stations shown.
Only this morning, I wanted a train to Domestic Airport. At Central, I looked at the departure information. Aha! a train to Macarthur is going via the airport stations, from platform 23. It could be T2 or T222 or T for 2, and it wouldn't help. Common sense use of the readily available information is a piece of cake for anyone.
Valvegear
I'm not entirely convinced that Melbourne is as easy to navigate though. PTV grouped the lines by colour but kept their original names, which could make things confusing for those that don't know the network. In addition, especially if you knew the line you needed to take, you still don't know which train goes down which line (though this is really only a problem where multiple line converge).

At Central the departure boards on the concourse also display the full stopping pattern of a train, which is not the case in Melbourne, so you'd still have to know the exact destination of your train before you even reach the station.

At least with Sydney (and every other city around the world), once you find the line you want you can ignore everything not related to that line. In most cases you can even go directly to the platform without looking at the departure board.

Sometimes the smallest things can make the biggest difference.

The fact that you found Sydney so easy to navigate means they must be doing something right.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

PTV names the lines with their original names because that's how they are named.  Almost no users subconciously associate the colour with the lines regardless of their linguistics background.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Have you actually got any evidence of that? Or are you just making an assumption?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Have you got evidence of anyone who memorize lines with clues other than destination?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
The fact that you found Sydney so easy to navigate means they must be doing something right.
"railblogger"
They are; showing the complete stopping route for each line. In Melbourne we do this at Flinders Street, Spencer Street and the Loop stations. It's needed at all stations. Richmond's display is appalling, so Metro personnel are on duty at each entrance and are kept busy telling people which train they need. This should not be needed. Do what Sydney does (without the T1, T2 etc); problem solved.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
PTV grouped the lines by colour
railblogger
Dates back a lot earlier than PTV - VicRail had colour coding on its CRT monitors in the 1980s, differentiating the Burnley, Caulfield, Clifton Hill and Northern lines as well as St Kilda and Port Melbourne.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Have you got evidence of anyone who memorize lines with clues other than destination?
Unsure if it happens in Melbourne, but wouldn't be surprised if it did, especially amongst people who have never used the system before. Overseas, it happens all the time. Which makes it extremely easy for navigation even if you don't speak the native language at all. (I know this from experience.)
They are; showing the complete stopping route for each line. In Melbourne we do this at Flinders Street, Spencer Street and the Loop stations. It's needed at all stations. Richmond's display is appalling, so Metro personnel are on duty at each entrance and are kept busy telling people which train they need. This should not be needed. Do what Sydney does (without the T1, T2 etc); problem solved.
We do indeed do this, but only on the platforms, so you still need to know which train you're taking before you get there.

At least Sydney shows the stopping pattern on the concourse as well.

An alternative would be to simply the stopping patterns, so you can simply direct passengers to the correct platform for the line...
Dates back a lot earlier than PTV - VicRail had colour coding on its CRT monitors in the 1980s, differentiating the Burnley, Caulfield, Clifton Hill and Northern lines as well as St Kilda and Port Melbourne.
Remember hearing about that. Didn't realize they did the St Kilda and Port Melbourne lines as well.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Have you got evidence of anyone who memorize lines with clues other than destination?
Unsure if it happens in Melbourne, but wouldn't be surprised if it did, especially amongst people who have never used the system before. Overseas, it happens all the time. Which makes it extremely easy for navigation even if you don't speak the native language at all. (I know this from experience.)
They are; showing the complete stopping route for each line. In Melbourne we do this at Flinders Street, Spencer Street and the Loop stations. It's needed at all stations. Richmond's display is appalling, so Metro personnel are on duty at each entrance and are kept busy telling people which train they need. This should not be needed. Do what Sydney does (without the T1, T2 etc); problem solved.
We do indeed do this, but only on the platforms, so you still need to know which train you're taking before you get there.

At least Sydney shows the stopping pattern on the concourse as well.

An alternative would be to simply the stopping patterns, so you can simply direct passengers to the correct platform for the line...
Dates back a lot earlier than PTV - VicRail had colour coding on its CRT monitors in the 1980s, differentiating the Burnley, Caulfield, Clifton Hill and Northern lines as well as St Kilda and Port Melbourne.
Remember hearing about that. Didn't realize they did the St Kilda and Port Melbourne lines as well.
  BaysideManny Chief Train Controller

In Sydney, the T1, T2 etc is basically meaningless to a visiting traveller like me. The stylized map of the Sydney trains network is easy to use, with all stations shown.
Only this morning, I wanted a train to Domestic Airport. At Central, I looked at the departure information. Aha! a train to Macarthur is going via the airport stations, from platform 23. It could be T2 or T222 or T for 2, and it wouldn't help. Common sense use of the readily available information is a piece of cake for anyone.
Valvegear
Sorry to be a pedant but Airport Trains are served exclusively by T8 services.

The connectivity of the services in Sydney is also a big plus.

Mannie

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