Standard Gauge VLocity

 
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Border mail has the following:

The VLocity set will be used on the 12.05pm run from Southern Cross to Albury and the 5.20pm return service next Thursday [29th Jan].

Means no overnighting in Albury, so perhaps this will be the routine for a while?

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  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The VL Three Car mentality at VLP and DOT still persists, so we end up with a 3 car Inter City VL unit only seating 152, so most trips will have to run as double consists. (What extra Conductors ? , what with the second buffet ?)

Six sets is only enough to run 3 return trips a dayto Albury , two extra sets required to run 5 return trips a day as promised.

Quickest way to increase capacity in a 3 car Inter City set is to insert a standard commuter intermediate car adding 90 seats, brings the capacity over 4 cars up to 242 with the one buffet.

BUT  Government and VLP both say cant do that as all the maintenance facilities are built for  3  cars !!!!!

DERH !!!! What have we been telling you since 2007 that ultimately 3 car sets are a recipe for disaster, and that maintenance facilities need to be altered for 4 cars at CMD, Dynon and Ballarat East.

Existing we can only run 3, 6 or 9 cars trains.

With a mix of 3 and 4 car sets we can run  3, 4, 6, 7, 8 or 9 cars.   Capex costs lower per seat.
Maintenance and fuel costs lower on an on-going basis.

YET we still persist in buying only 3 car sets.

In answer to the specific question with broad gauge Inter City V/Locity sets, and Commuter type sets  YES  depart Melbourne as 6 cars Inter City set leads, Commuter set trails.  Detach the Commuter set at Waurn Ponds, Bendigo or Traralgon.  (Detach 3 mins on the Down, 12 mins attach Commuter set on the Up.)

BEFORE we buy any more BG V/Locity either Commuter or new Inter City type we need to stop LEARN and cease this 3 car STUPIDITY.
Move to 4 car Inter City bg sets with buffet seating 242, and any more commuter cars buy 40 more centre cars and alter the broad gauge fleet from 100 x 3 car sets to 60 x 3 car sets and 40 x 4 car sets. (3 cars seat 222,  4  cars seat 312)
The costs of modifying CMD, Dynon and Ballarat to hold 4 car sets will be a pittance compared to both the Capex and Opex savings in running trains better tailored to loadings with the mixed fleet better utilization. Better still just buy 40 unpowered trailers and really get rewarded in lower capex costs per seat and lower on-going opex.
  hbedriver Deputy Commissioner

Given that everything relating to V’locity trains on the Albury needs new supporting infrastructure anyway, setting it up for four car sets is not relatively more expensive than for three car sets. Whether run with a fourth power car needs only a bit more pipe and extra fittings (fuel; toilets and water need no extra), or as a silent intermediate trailer (cheaper to build, no concerning overall loss of power), the costs are not huge, certainly less than for another three cars.

Then again, close to 10% of BG sets are running with one car dead (failed engines), can they trust their maintenance contractor?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Then again, close to 10% of BG sets are running with one car dead (failed engines), can they trust their maintenance contractor?
"hbedriver"
Of course; the "bad old days" when VR did its own maintenance was seen be the pollies and bean counters as a terrible thing. Much better to contract out the work and apparently trust to luck on maintenance being done properly. Your taxes at work.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Then again, close to 10% of BG sets are running with one car dead (failed engines), can they trust their maintenance contractor?
Of course; the "bad old days" when VR did its own maintenance was seen be the pollies and bean counters as a terrible thing. Much better to contract out the work and apparently trust to luck on maintenance being done properly. Your taxes at work.
Valvegear
What, give VLine more money to hide away in brown paper bags and pay as kickbacks?  Nah, part of me prefers that it goes to a Bombardier or someone not VLine who has broader corruption principals and requirements to comply with....
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Nah, part of me prefers that it goes to a Bombardier or someone not VLine who has broader corruption principals and requirements to comply with....
"james.au"
I'd prefer that the principals did not have corrupt principles.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Then again, close to 10% of BG sets are running with one car dead (failed engines), can they trust their maintenance contractor?
Of course; the "bad old days" when VR did its own maintenance was seen be the pollies and bean counters as a terrible thing. Much better to contract out the work and apparently trust to luck on maintenance being done properly. Your taxes at work.
Valvegear
Abolish the bloody lot; Vline, DoT, PTV (whatever any of them are called today) plus the (ir)responsible and incompetent ministers and replace them with a competent and efficient organisation where responsibility for anything and everything can be clearly sheeted home to somebody.

Granted that some of the traditional government railways were less than ideal in many ways but at the end of the day the Commissioner was ultimately responsible along with the various Heads of Branches providing him with specialist advice etc.

Some will, no doubt, argue that the government railways lost money. This was but a drop in the ocean when compared with today where the show is 'run' (haha) by a motley QANGO board artificially appointed to contain lawyers, bean counters, bankers, political sycophants, mates, party supporters all including a quota of females none of whom would know a train from a wheelbarrow. Individually they might be very clever in their own field but we need people who can see through the simple BS, snow, corruption and incompetence staring them in the face for which no-one is, of course, responsible.

We need to remember now that that everything is contracted out from carriage cleaning to wheel turning to track tamping.

Every one of the 100s (?) of contractors, however small, will have a CEO to collect/deliver brown paper bags, lawyers, accountants, insurance, consultants (often declared redundant from the 'proper railways') etc etc. In effect we are paying multiple overheads and often getting overpriced and perhaps substandard work as a result.

The government railways were not perfect but they could have been made far more so at far less cost than the multiple dogs dinners that we have now.

Sack the rail workers, privatise and what happened:
  • Those with 'get up and go' 'got up and went' leaving (NOT IN ALL CASES I emphasise) many less capable or experienced hands.
  • Those who went frequently found work at better pay with the privatised companies and/or consultants.
  • Corporate capability, experience, knowledge and history was lost.
  • An enormous bureaucracy was set up to (supposedly) mind the buccaneers and privateers.
It would be an interesting exercise to compare overall employee numbers and costs of a competent and efficient vertically integrated rail network with what we have today.
  Djebel Train Controller

Just let the collective wisdom of RP decide.  Many of those on here have more knowledge, and do more research (without pay) than the clowns running the various institutions.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I wonder what would change 3D if the clowns involved actually used the system.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Then again, close to 10% of BG sets are running with one car dead (failed engines), can they trust their maintenance contractor?
Of course; the "bad old days" when VR did its own maintenance was seen be the pollies and bean counters as a terrible thing. Much better to contract out the work and apparently trust to luck on maintenance being done properly. Your taxes at work.
What, give VLine more money to hide away in brown paper bags and pay as kickbacks?  Nah, part of me prefers that it goes to a Bombardier or someone not VLine …
james.au
In principle (haha) I agree.

Better to have a contractual relationship with suitable remedies for minor incidents (not enough sets available today = contractor doesn't get paid for today) and exceptional incidents (not enough sets available for weeks in a row = contract terminated, contractor excluded from bidding again) of sub-standard performance.

The other thing is that the supposedly all-singing-all-dancing VR wasn't actually that good at running trains. I looked up a 1971 timetable (a disorganised muddle, I hope the 5¢ on the front was what VR paid the passenger as compensation for having to use it) and searched for the Ballarat-Melbourne route. Ballarat only had 7 trains to Melbourne each day, three of which were three hour ordeals routed via Geelong. V/Line now has the ability to cancel as many direct trains as ran back then and still run over three times as many!

The downside to contracting at the moment is that there is not enough competition in the sector. In case you missed it, Bombardier Transportation is no more after Alstom bought it and the ACCC didn't force Alstom to divest any of either company's Australian operations to preserve competition.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Not doubting what you say about the actual train services when one compares 1971 and 2021. A lot has changed in that 50 years.

My argument concerns the contracting out the supply of every nut and bolt and the army needed to supervise these contracts, the corruption that has clearly occurred and the poor end result where no-one seems held accountable for non-performance. The Mildura SG is the classic example of this.

These 'service' contracts seem to be the tail wagging the dog where the workshops dictate the length of trains able to be run regardless of passenger demand (or not) being but one example. Other than cosmetic fiddling, what technological improvements have been made to the Vlocities in the last 20 or 30 years (whatever)? Even the A2s had been replaced by Rs and Bs in around that time.

Is Vline there to provide top class public transport or to provide a train set for its ministers, board members and contractors to play with?
  Djebel Train Controller

Other than cosmetic fiddling, what technological improvements have been made to the Vlocities in the last 20 or 30 years (whatever)? Even the A2s had been replaced by Rs and Bs in around that time.
YM-Mundrabilla
The A2 class lasted 44 years as the workhorse express locomotive of the VR (I don't count the S and H classes  -- 5 locomotives v/s 185 for the A2), and 56 years total in service.

Based on that, the Vlocities have a while in service yet.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
The oldest V'Locity's are already over 35% of the way to your 44 year benchmark.

M.
  Djebel Train Controller

The oldest V'Locity's are already over 35% of the way to your 44 year benchmark.

M.
The Vinelander
Based on the A2s, someone should start planning for their replacement immediately.  With the first order to be placed in about 2045.

After their replacements arrive, the Vlocities can see out their lives running shuttles on unelectrified outer suburban lines for a decade or so.

Lines like Sale-Bairnsdale.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
At least during the lives of the A2s they received improvements as technology emerged:
  • Walschaert valve gear
  • Electric lighting
  • Superheating
  • Improved front end
  • Auto couplers
  • Oil firing
  • Boxpok driving wheels
SmileSmile
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
A set (perhaps two?) will make the journey to Albury tomorrow, do we know what time the set(s) are leaving Melbourne or are they already positioned for Albury?
  Djebel Train Controller

At least during the lives of the A2s they received improvements as technology emerged:
  • Walschaert valve gear
  • Electric lighting
  • Superheating
  • Improved front end
  • Auto couplers
  • Oil firing
  • Boxpok driving wheels
SmileSmile
YM-Mundrabilla
So far the Vlocities have scored:
  • less comfy seats,
  • a decrease of....facilities,
  • excessively heavy cabs,
  • and now a chip and sandwich dispensary.

And still less than 20 years old.  Imagine how many....improvements....we will see by the end of their operational lives.
  Djebel Train Controller

I wonder what would change 3D if the clowns involved actually used the system.
railblogger
Well, it took a while but I found what I was looking for.  Apologies for the quality -- I believe it's a copyright bot dodging thing.  From 46s to 1m21s.



https://youtu.be/oLU-Evdlt-A?t=46
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

A set (perhaps two?) will make the journey to Albury tomorrow, do we know what time the set(s) are leaving Melbourne or are they already positioned for Albury?
bevans
No sets need to be positioned, or stabled overnight, in Albury. The VLocity/ies will run the 12:05pm down and 5:20pm up service.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I wonder what would change 3D if the clowns involved actually used the system.
Well, it took a while but I found what I was looking for.  Apologies for the quality -- I believe it's a copyright bot dodging thing.  From 46s to 1m21s.



https://youtu.be/oLU-Evdlt-A?t=46
Djebel
Wonderful.
I could watch these documentaries endlessly.
Why does Bernard Woolley remind me of Ben Carroll?
All we need now for a here and now update is Jacinta Allan to provide the mandatory female quota.
  Djebel Train Controller

I wonder what would change 3D if the clowns involved actually used the system.
Well, it took a while but I found what I was looking for.  Apologies for the quality -- I believe it's a copyright bot dodging thing.  From 46s to 1m21s.



https://youtu.be/oLU-Evdlt-A?t=46
Wonderful.
I could watch these documentaries endlessly.
Why does Bernard Woolley remind me of Ben Carroll?
All we need now for a here and now update is Jacinta Allan to provide the mandatory female quota.
YM-Mundrabilla
40 years on, in a country on the opposite side of the planet, it's still a devastatingly accurate summary of government.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
A set (perhaps two?) will make the journey to Albury tomorrow, do we know what time the set(s) are leaving Melbourne or are they already positioned for Albury?
No sets need to be positioned, or stabled overnight, in Albury. The VLocity/ies will run the 12:05pm down and 5:20pm up service.
duttonbay

Thanks.  I am heading up the highway tomorrow and thought I may be able to get some photos but I will be in Albury around noon so no go unfortunately.
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

Wonderful.
I could watch these documentaries endlessly.
Why does Bernard Woolley remind me of Ben Carroll?
All we need now for a here and now update is Jacinta Allan to provide the mandatory female quota.
YM-Mundrabilla
What I really like is that I remember it being stated in the media that HM Betty Windsor really enjoyed these shows! Smile
  Djebel Train Controller

Wonderful.
I could watch these documentaries endlessly.
Why does Bernard Woolley remind me of Ben Carroll?
All we need now for a here and now update is Jacinta Allan to provide the mandatory female quota.
What I really like is that I remember it being stated in the media that HM Betty Windsor really enjoyed these shows! Smile
Lockspike
Never heard that one, though Maggie Thatcher was definitely a huge fan.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I imagine that the clowns running the place here are ignorant/arrogant enough to think that they are a comedy.

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