QUBE BlueScope Steel Contract

 
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
When can I expect and who will be the operator to see steel coming through Albury not with PN ?

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  Lachlan's Train Channel Train Controller

Location: probably taking a photo of 7901V
On top of those G class, QUBE also have several VL class on lease from Rail First Asset Management, including VL353, VL356, VL357 and VL360. There is also talk of at least one more VL class being gauge converted to broad gauge for QUBE's use
Gman_86
Two more last I heard, VL351 was transferred from Adelaide by SCT the other day, and there should be VL352 coming too.

Albeit not the topic of this thread, SCT have been pulling more RF locos out of their ar$e to help cope with their steel haulage
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Talking of SCT - they've just hired S303 & T357 from SRHC. Rumoured to be going to Radelaide of all places....
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Where exactly will SCT be operating steel services?
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Where exactly will SCT be operating steel services?
Gman_86

SCT will be operating the Bluescope contract west of Melbourne. Looking at the latest Master Train Plan (MTP) there do not appear to be any extra services. We can only assume at this stage that Bluescope traffic will be accommodated on existing services, but then SCT often run extra services as required?

On the MTP there are shuttles between Bolivar and the Lysaght's siding at Wingfield attributed to SCT steel - maybe what the Seymour locos are for?

6 more CSRs were unloaded off the boat at Port Adelaide a couple of days ago. Four more still to come.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
I'm guessing that means the SCT Steel will run in and out of North Dynon, is that correct?

I'm also guessing S303 + T357 are only a short term solution until the new CSRs are ready to go?
  themetptc Train Controller

Location: Ballarat
Wow, didn't know SCT were getting more CSRs, they must be better than the SCTs if there going in this direction for new locos.
I was just thinking last night that I haven't heard about S303 in a while.
Is it planned to use the VLs or Gs on the Long Island?
Great to see more VLs on BG, they all should be home.
Sim
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Wow, didn't know SCT were getting more CSRs, they must be better than the SCTs if there going in this direction for new locos.
I was just thinking last night that I haven't heard about S303 in a while.
Is it planned to use the VLs or Gs on the Long Island?
Great to see more VLs on BG, they all should be home.
Sim
themetptc
Unless one has 'good big wheel locos' to burn on SG putting anything other than 'capable rubbish' on the BG Long Island is a waste.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Despite having re-read this thread I admit that there are some aspects that are not clear (to me anyway).

Seems clear that the Port Kembla - Long Island coil traffic can be 100% handled on container flats of one sort or another on both SG and BG legs.

How is the 'in gauge' and 'wide plate' traffic to be handled between Port Kembla and Melbourne? These are traditionally handled on bolstered flat flats and tilt beds, respectively? Does Qube have access to suitable flat flats and more particularly tilt beds? Both groups were inherited by PN from NR.

Is there any RSJ* or other steel product ex Port Kembla that will require the use of open wagons? I have seen some on various videos but they may well have been very old.

Will Qube utilise expensive/new front line container flats on the BG Long Island leg to replace the largely rubbish cut downs inherited by PN from NR on this section?

Has PN sold, leased or otherwise transferred any rolling stock to Qube?

Time will tell I guess.

* Rolled steel joists
Going back in time, when the out of gauge flat steel products were placed generally on older MLE for transport to Long Island, problem with that working was that it was a slow trip, with running times reduced as well as the aspect that any up train had to be put away, or the Out of gauge train put away to allow for Down trains to run through them, at reduced speed.  The other issue was that these trains worked in the main from PTK to Enfield and then to the main south, a longer and slower journey.

I cannot remember the changing date and when the various MLE type flat wagons (could well have been other flats though, and of newer types) were converted and tests performed on them speed wise.  The cradles were generally at 45degrees, and chained over the top and fastened on both sides at the bottom of the cradles.  The benefit was multi, as the angle of the cradles, allowed for them being well balanced and speed was able to be increased to IIRC to 6omph, there were still speed conditions on them.

The other benefit that also worked in with the increase of speed, was that no more did they go via Enfield (unless an issue and extra wagons that were not allowed on the Dombarton - Moss Vale line) but they were primarily running on the mountain, and that meant better transit times.

I believe there must be some of the cradle wagons in use on some services as I have seen the tilted steel on some NCL trains, along the Hunter line between Telerah & BMD, also and its been a while I have been on Central Coast services and seen some trains in the Gosford an Cowan loops. That is a small sample these days.

One other aspect in the old out of gauge loads was the aspect that every station had to be manned by ASM/SM or signalman when they ran, the train had to reduce speed through the station areas, along the whole length of the platform.  When the train was clear of the platform there had to be a green light from the Guard to the driver/or fireman depending on the side that was visible for the hand signal.

From memory, Binalong was somewhat a problem and speed had to be reduced to a very slow speed owing to the curvature of the platform on the down side.  Guard and SM/ASM/Signalman had to exchange the green hand signal as the train passed. It was also a location where they were put away to allow faster trains to run through them.
a6et
Thanks A6ET most informative. Brings back some vague memories!

IIRC these OoG/wide plate trains usually used to depart Kembla on a Friday night when, I assume, there was a well known OoG path.

I recall the (13?) MLE flats which became NKSX and ultimately 11 were taken over by National Rail as RKSX soon to be dumped as the new tilt beds arrived.

As X types, in my day everything X was restricted to 80 km/h  not that it matters for this exercise.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Can I ask a couple of questions about the PN SG coil trains from Port Kembla to Melbourne which are about to be superseded?  I have long ago lost touch with their detailed operation.

Assuming that the entire consist is container flats of one sort or another:
  • Are they all Y types which are permitted ~ 110km/h?
  • Are these trains tabled at ~110 km/h?
  • Do they actually run at around 100/110 km/h in practice?
  • Will their container flats be available to increase PN's intermodal services?
Just curious before the service passes into history
  Fatty Deputy Commissioner

Location: Narrabri
Can I ask a couple of questions about the PN SG coil trains from Port Kembla to Melbourne which are about to be superseded?  I have long ago lost touch with their detailed operation.

Assuming that the entire consist is container flats of one sort or another:
  • Are they all Y types which are permitted ~ 110km/h?
  • Are these trains tabled at ~110 km/h?
  • Do they actually run at around 100/110 km/h in practice?
  • Will their container flats be available to increase PN's intermodal services?
Just curious before the service passes into history
YM-Mundrabilla

No.
No.
No.
Possibly. Some were stowed at Seymour today but their fate is unknown.

AFAIK the last WM train ran yesterday. The WM/MW trains were all 80 km/hr trains. The speed of loaded trains was reduced to 70 km/hr for some time between the Border and Violet Town due to track condition. Many of us are waiting to see how Qube will go with their planned 100km/hr running.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Can I ask a couple of questions about the PN SG coil trains from Port Kembla to Melbourne which are about to be superseded?  I have long ago lost touch with their detailed operation.

Assuming that the entire consist is container flats of one sort or another:
  • Are they all Y types which are permitted ~ 110km/h?
  • Are these trains tabled at ~110 km/h?
  • Do they actually run at around 100/110 km/h in practice?
  • Will their container flats be available to increase PN's intermodal services?
Just curious before the service passes into history

No.
No.
No.
Possibly. Some were stowed at Seymour today but their fate is unknown.

AFAIK the last WM train ran yesterday. The WM/MW trains were all 80 km/hr trains. The speed of loaded trains was reduced to 70 km/hr for some time between the Border and Violet Town due to track condition. Many of us are waiting to see how Qube will go with their planned 100km/hr running.
Fatty
One more PN WM train tabled, NR and LDP on Friday I think.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Can I ask a couple of questions about the PN SG coil trains from Port Kembla to Melbourne which are about to be superseded?  I have long ago lost touch with their detailed operation.

Assuming that the entire consist is container flats of one sort or another:
  • Are they all Y types which are permitted ~ 110km/h?
  • Are these trains tabled at ~110 km/h?
  • Do they actually run at around 100/110 km/h in practice?
  • Will their container flats be available to increase PN's intermodal services?
Just curious before the service passes into history

No.
No.
No.
Possibly. Some were stowed at Seymour today but their fate is unknown.

AFAIK the last WM train ran yesterday. The WM/MW trains were all 80 km/hr trains. The speed of loaded trains was reduced to 70 km/hr for some time between the Border and Violet Town due to track condition. Many of us are waiting to see how Qube will go with their planned 100km/hr running.
Fatty
Thanks Fatty.

More or less confirmed what I thought re wagons and speeds.

'... Many of us are waiting to see how Qube will go with their planned 100km/h running ....'

If there is an official Qube 'photo line'? If so I suggest that we all stand 1 km further back from the track centreline. Jumbo coil traffic has always scared me.SmileTwisted Evil
  a6et Minister for Railways

Despite having re-read this thread I admit that there are some aspects that are not clear (to me anyway).

Seems clear that the Port Kembla - Long Island coil traffic can be 100% handled on container flats of one sort or another on both SG and BG legs.

How is the 'in gauge' and 'wide plate' traffic to be handled between Port Kembla and Melbourne? These are traditionally handled on bolstered flat flats and tilt beds, respectively? Does Qube have access to suitable flat flats and more particularly tilt beds? Both groups were inherited by PN from NR.

Is there any RSJ* or other steel product ex Port Kembla that will require the use of open wagons? I have seen some on various videos but they may well have been very old.

Will Qube utilise expensive/new front line container flats on the BG Long Island leg to replace the largely rubbish cut downs inherited by PN from NR on this section?

Has PN sold, leased or otherwise transferred any rolling stock to Qube?

Time will tell I guess.

* Rolled steel joists
Going back in time, when the out of gauge flat steel products were placed generally on older MLE for transport to Long Island, problem with that working was that it was a slow trip, with running times reduced as well as the aspect that any up train had to be put away, or the Out of gauge train put away to allow for Down trains to run through them, at reduced speed.  The other issue was that these trains worked in the main from PTK to Enfield and then to the main south, a longer and slower journey.

I cannot remember the changing date and when the various MLE type flat wagons (could well have been other flats though, and of newer types) were converted and tests performed on them speed wise.  The cradles were generally at 45degrees, and chained over the top and fastened on both sides at the bottom of the cradles.  The benefit was multi, as the angle of the cradles, allowed for them being well balanced and speed was able to be increased to IIRC to 6omph, there were still speed conditions on them.

The other benefit that also worked in with the increase of speed, was that no more did they go via Enfield (unless an issue and extra wagons that were not allowed on the Dombarton - Moss Vale line) but they were primarily running on the mountain, and that meant better transit times.

I believe there must be some of the cradle wagons in use on some services as I have seen the tilted steel on some NCL trains, along the Hunter line between Telerah & BMD, also and its been a while I have been on Central Coast services and seen some trains in the Gosford an Cowan loops. That is a small sample these days.

One other aspect in the old out of gauge loads was the aspect that every station had to be manned by ASM/SM or signalman when they ran, the train had to reduce speed through the station areas, along the whole length of the platform.  When the train was clear of the platform there had to be a green light from the Guard to the driver/or fireman depending on the side that was visible for the hand signal.

From memory, Binalong was somewhat a problem and speed had to be reduced to a very slow speed owing to the curvature of the platform on the down side.  Guard and SM/ASM/Signalman had to exchange the green hand signal as the train passed. It was also a location where they were put away to allow faster trains to run through them.
Thanks A6ET most informative. Brings back some vague memories!

IIRC these OoG/wide plate trains usually used to depart Kembla on a Friday night when, I assume, there was a well known OoG path.

I recall the (13?) MLE flats which became NKSX and ultimately 11 were taken over by National Rail as RKSX soon to be dumped as the new tilt beds arrived.

As X types, in my day everything X was restricted to 80 km/h  not that it matters for this exercise.
YM-Mundrabilla
I was acting as a chargman at Delec from 73 - 76, both in the Zona and inside for engine control along with Main line rostering that was usually to do with loco rostering depending on trains and their working through Enfield.  I have a book that is somewhere that included the engines in the depot/paddock and on rostered working, as such the OOG trains would run depending on the amount of other trains in the same period, and they could and would often come from PTK and stow at Enfield until paths were available. Often the line that ran to where the blue metal was dumped near north box, with locos' also up front. if that siding was full then the train would go to the Enf north middle road and back into the DD's section which were cleared of any wagons that may have been too close to them on both sides, as the trains were heavy it also meant they were short.

If general freights ran, and a relative busy program was on, the OOG trains would be held until a quieter period turned up. The running of trains ex PTK via Enfield on a Friday night would usually be after the 4 primary afternoon trains that ran with loadings for the Northern line, IIRC, & will need to check my Illa TT, on it, there was a gap between around 2000, until one that ran a bit later that was a train set for the Chullora Industrial area.

Saturday evening was the main time that the OOG trains ran as usually it was much quieter for down trains, certainly when the Enfield traffic was in use they in general departed Enfield when no nigh pax trains had gone, likewise with any other Interstate freight being pyritized.

I ended up at PTK from 78-82 as a driver there, and by then a reasonable number of the OOG trains were able to run up the mountain which eliminated the other problems, by then though the same trains ran as per when I was in the chargeman's were generally finished and the mountain the prefered route, but the other factor that came in was that they required an extra loco as far as Summit Tank and often it went through to Robertson also to MV &/or Goulburn.

I will check some of my notes from the Delec days, also PTK, especially with the WTT as I have lost my note book of the time at the Port.
  hbedriver Deputy Commissioner

Does anyone know what sort of times the Dynon - Hastings/Long Island trains will be running under QUBE?
I assume two trains each way daily, similar times to PN's, but happy to be proven wrong.

TIA
  a6et Minister for Railways

I was acting as a chargman at Delec from 73 - 76, both in the Zona and inside for engine control along with Main line rostering that was usually to do with loco rostering depending on trains and their working through Enfield.  I have a book that is somewhere that included the engines in the depot/paddock and on rostered working, as such the OOG trains would run depending on the amount of other trains in the same period, and they could and would often come from PTK and stow at Enfield until paths were available. Often the line that ran to where the blue metal was dumped near north box, with locos' also up front. if that siding was full then the train would go to the Enf north middle road and back into the DD's section which were cleared of any wagons that may have been too close to them on both sides, as the trains were heavy it also meant they were short.

If general freights ran, and a relative busy program was on, the OOG trains would be held until a quieter period turned up. The running of trains ex PTK via Enfield on a Friday night would usually be after the 4 primary afternoon trains that ran with loadings for the Northern line, IIRC, & will need to check my Illa TT, on it, there was a gap between around 2000, until one that ran a bit later that was a train set for the Chullora Industrial area.

Saturday evening was the main time that the OOG trains ran as usually it was much quieter for down trains, certainly when the Enfield traffic was in use they in general departed Enfield when no nigh pax trains had gone, likewise with any other Interstate freight being pyritized.

I ended up at PTK from 78-82 as a driver there, and by then a reasonable number of the OOG trains were able to run up the mountain which eliminated the other problems, by then though the same trains ran as per when I was in the chargeman's were generally finished and the mountain the prefered route, but the other factor that came in was that they required an extra loco as far as Summit Tank and often it went through to Robertson also to MV &/or Goulburn.

I will check some of my notes from the Delec days, also PTK, especially with the WTT as I have lost my note book of the time at the Port.
a6et
I have checked the WTT's 1964, 1965, 1968, also 1980, cannot find the Illawarra GA, but could be packed still.  There is no references to any OOG trains in them, the routine goods services, with exception of the Milk train from Bomaderry, M-Saturday,ran through from the gong arriving DHarbour  1832.  That was the only afternoon scheduled goods train on Saturday, similar times to weekdays.

General freight trains from the PTK area had the first up service leaving at 1815, next was from Lysaghts, although generally from PTK, as transfer loco's took the load to PTK @1844. Next @ 2012, then 2237, this was a M-F program, in the PM period, there 2 that was rostered between 0020 & an 0200. Only other trains were empty coal from Inner Harbor and no general freight trains to Enfield. in the PM on Saturdays, & Sunday AM's.

The window for the OOG trains was in the PM period, but were quite rare, the Moss Vale branch however did have freight rostered on the Saturday PM period at least in the 1980 period, occording to the WTT, however as I was driver at Ptk in that period I do not recollect seeing any OOG trains going to MV, by that period of time, there were no freight trains rostered on the Mountain, with first empty limestone train leaving at 2200 on Sunday nights.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I'm guessing that means the SCT Steel will run in and out of North Dynon, is that correct?
Gman_86
Will be interesting to see, does the East-West loading currently get transhipped at Dynon or does it run right through from PTK?

There has been a heap of work going on at the North side of ND yard (adjacent to South Kensington station) with a large concrete hardstand, new sheds, boom gates and a site office installed for road access to said hard stand, lots of track work etc etc etc

This work has been going on for months but more recently there has been the odd steel wagon and a couple of donuts spotted there, I assume for testing purposes.

The last time I went past was Friday last week I think and it looked like the facility was pretty much ready to rock
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
I'm guessing that means the SCT Steel will run in and out of North Dynon, is that correct?
Will be interesting to see, I presume that this will be the case as there has been a heap of work going on at the North side of ND yard (adjacent to South Kensington station) with a large concrete hardstand, new sheds, boom gates and a site office installed for road access to said hard stand, lots of track work etc etc etc

This work has been going on for months but more recently there has been the odd steel wagon and a couple of donuts spotted there, I assume for testing purposes.

The last time I went past was Friday last week I think and it looked like the facility was pretty much ready to rock
BrentonGolding
North Dynon will be the transfer hub, with Qube bringing S/G loading in from Port Kembla, which will be transferred either to SCT, Laverton by SCT, via a Transfer Service, then on their MP9 Services heading West or if the loading needs to goto Hastings (Long Island), it will be transferred by Qube on B/G, then returned to North Dynon, and transferred as required.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Judging by some of the photos that have come out: some of the wagons PN had related to Bluescope product got transferred, mostly some coil wagons and flat sheet product.

Qube are using the Bluescope owned wagons on the broad gauge Long Island, with butterboxes on the CQXY/TQRF wagons on the rear until the SQSF wagons get set up due to quarantine period for the bogies.

Qube dragged a rake of flats down to Melbourne to load all the coil cradles on on 1CM5, returning north this morning as 7MW7.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
And a video from Justin Moy



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uwFS2Ky8A
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Didn't take long for the museum exhibits to start appearing on the Steel.

B74 joined G532 on the Long Island Steel on Tuesday, even running up front on the UP #9564 service. Photos up on Vicsig now courtesy of Ian Green.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Tonight's Down Long Island ups the ante with B80-B74-VL353 in charge.

Mornington Peninsula is Gunzel Central these days...
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Tonight's Down Long Island ups the ante with B80-B74-VL353 in charge.

Mornington Peninsula is Gunzel Central these days...
  ADB Junior Train Controller

This post isn't about the steely, but it is to do with Qube, so I'll put it here: Is Qube's Apex quarry service still two return trips a day, or has it been cut back to one? I've had a look at that Network Service Plan thingy, but can make head nor tail of it.

Cheers.
  Fatty Deputy Commissioner

Location: Narrabri
Tonight's Down Long Island ups the ante with B80-B74-VL353 in charge.

Mornington Peninsula is Gunzel Central these days...
Carnot
I'd be interested to see how they ran around the coil wagons. I'd be surprised if three locos fit in the shunt neck.

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