The 'renewable' energy thread -

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
As you are the sole anti renewables voice...the delusions are clearly apparent.

If however if it gives you some comfort to think I'm delusional... I'm not heartless.

Mike.
So being in a minority automatically makes me wrong - more astounding logic from you. At one point consensus was the earth was flat - no doubt you'd be one of the zealous Catholic Church tourturers getting Copernicus to recant his evil thesis that it was round.

All you did was post an article saying that the socialist Victorian government was spending money on an off-shore wind farm and then said this:
But you have LOST this argument. I'm not about to explain that Bass Strait is not the Irish Sea, I thought that would be bleedingly obvious to all but yourself...obviously. Accept defeat and let's move on.
I mean, in what universe is that winning an argument about wind power?
don_dunstan

Again...to clarify, I'm not heartless. Smile

M.

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  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Again...to clarify, I'm not heartless. Smile

M.
The Vinelander
Again with the appeals to being morally superior (somehow).

Every dollar of taxpayer money or grid user money diverted into this shambles comes from money borrowed from future generations OR people who are too poor to afford the middle class welfare measures of panels and batteries.

Yet you've made it clear - time and time again - that those people do not exist to you. You won't even acknowledge them because like all religious people you're just too selfish to give a moments thought to the victims of your beliefs.

So when you think you're being a good human being by endorsing this anti-carbon rubbish you're actually punishing the poorest members of our society - quite happily apparently because it makes you a better person in your mind. In reality you are selfish and a righteous prig; you think you're doing good but actually you're hurting people and you don't care one iota.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Again...to clarify, I'm not heartless. Smile

M.
Again with the appeals to being morally superior (somehow).

Every dollar of taxpayer money or grid user money diverted into this shambles comes from money borrowed from future generations OR people who are too poor to afford the middle class welfare measures of panels and batteries.

Yet you've made it clear - time and time again - that those people do not exist to you. You won't even acknowledge them because like all religious people you're just too selfish to give a moments thought to the victims of your beliefs.

So when you think you're being a good human being by endorsing this anti-carbon rubbish you're actually punishing the poorest members of our society - quite happily apparently because it makes you a better person in your mind. In reality you are selfish and a righteous prig; you think you're doing good but actually you're hurting people and you don't care one iota.
don_dunstan

Oh, after your disgusting misogynistic comments about Hillary, I'm morally superior...that's a given.

Never mind that it's private enterprise that are stumping up the cash for the proposed project, not the apparently 'socialist' Andrews government...but, like your hero Murdoch media... never let the truth get in the way of a good story hey Question

BTW, you must have me confused with Billy, I'm no religious nutter and am athiest.

Mike.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Oh, after your disgusting misogynistic comments about Hillary, I'm morally superior...that's a given.
The Vinelander
Feeble. Hillary was wearing the same outfit as Homer Simpson - it's really a stretch to say it anti-woman somehow.
Never mind that it's private enterprise that are stumping up the cash for the proposed project, not the apparently 'socialist' Andrews government...but, like your hero Murdoch media... never let the truth get in the way of a good story hey
The Vinelander
Even Warren Buffett said recently that the only reason private capital is moving in to 'green' energy is to harvest the extremely generous government subsidies that are available. Without it they wouldn't be be doing it.

Again, you think giving even more money to rich people is a good thing. The anti-Robin Hood - because your religion commands you to do so. Right?
BTW, you must have me confused with Billy, I'm no religious nutter and am athiest. Mike.
The Vinelander
You have a belief system confected from nothing - that's what a religion is. Like lots of avowed atheists I've met you have a secret religion that you firmly believe in to the detriment of other people - it's just that you're too dumb to realise that's exactly what it is.

A religion. And a really evil religion at that - determined to entrench economic disadvantage and make "wind barons" like Malcolm Turnbull, Simon Holmes a'Court and Twiggy Forrest even wealthier by giving them money to force an unsuitable, unreliable product on the population. Make the grid-captive poor pay more - that's your motto.

Like many religious people you're just a useful idiot to those in charge and you can't see it.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Now you've completely lost the plot, I'll leave you to rattle around in your own space for a few days.

M.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Atheism is not a religion.

Religion is the belief in (and creepily, worship of) superhuman, controlling beings, which is often manifested as a personal god.

Atheism is … quite precisely … exactly not that.

Atheism is saliently antonym to theism; theism has a really simple meaning - the belief in at least one God. The character, abilities and achievements of the theist God(s) are unimportant, it is belief in those that push theists into the definition of religious. There exists a group of people (agnostotheists) who believe in God(s) who do not necessarily believe in any religion.

The antonym to theist must therefore be that atheism is the belief in less than one god, or my favourite and what I usually say to people ‘there is, at most, zero gods’ - that’s right, there is no non integer number of gods, though I do hope of evidence of -1.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

Atheism is not a religion.

Religion is the belief in (and creepily, worship of) superhuman, controlling beings, which is often manifested as a personal god.

Atheism is … quite precisely … exactly not that.

Atheism is saliently antonym to theism; theism has a really simple meaning - the belief in at least one God. The character, abilities and achievements of the theist God(s) are unimportant, it is belief in those that push theists into the definition of religious. There exists a group of people (agnostotheists) who believe in God(s) who do not necessarily believe in any religion.

The antonym theist must therefore be that atheism is the belief in less than one god, or my favourite and what I usually say to people ‘there is, at most, zero gods’ - that’s right, there is no non integer number of gods, though I do hope of evidence of -1.
Aaron
Amazing that renewable energy ended up a conversation on religion. Perfectly satisfied with my view of a non integer number of gods, when the time comes, preferable to believing in the wrong one!
  apw5910 Chief Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Amazing that renewable energy ended up a conversation on religion. Perfectly satisfied with my view of a non integer number of gods, when the time comes, preferable to believing in the wrong one!
michaelgm
An irrational number of gods?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
In that case irrational would have to mean any non zero number.
  apw5910 Chief Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
An imaginary number of gods.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Now you've completely lost the plot, I'll leave you to rattle around in your own space for a few days.

M.
The Vinelander
Because you lost comprehensively. Again.
Atheism is not a religion. Religion is the belief in (and creepily, worship of) superhuman, controlling beings, which is often manifested as a personal god. Atheism is … quite precisely … exactly not that. Atheism is saliently antonym to theism; theism has a really simple meaning - the belief in at least one God. The character, abilities and achievements of the theist God(s) are unimportant, it is belief in those that push theists into the definition of religious. There exists a group of people (agnostotheists) who believe in God(s) who do not necessarily believe in any religion. The antonym to theist must therefore be that atheism is the belief in less than one god, or my favourite and what I usually say to people ‘there is, at most, zero gods’ - that’s right, there is no non integer number of gods, though I do hope of evidence of -1.
Aaron
But you're not an atheist if you come up with a substitute to fit the religion-shaped hole in your life - that's my whole point. You have a whole brand new belief system that you need to go around evangelising other people with your faith and demonising the people outside of the cult. Which is exactly what Mike is doing even though he'd deny it.

You need to look closer at the definition of what a religion is and see if the anthropogenic climate change cult fits into that definition.

I say that its definitely a cult - if not a full-blown religion.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Funnily enough, the Bible mentions harsh judgment on those who destroy the Earth in Revelation 11:18:

".... and the time has come to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

Environmental vandals beware.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Don, no one ordered the word salad with extra ‘I don’t know what I am talking about’ dressing…

Again:

Religion IS the belief in and worship of superhuman and controlling beings.


ANYTHING aside from that is NOT RELIGION.

Theism is the belief in God(s), belief which can be taken with or without the religious bits.

Atheism is exactly not that!

I have never met a single person with a religion shaped hole in their life - what would even be the ‘religion shape’? They didn’t teach me that in geometry.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Nah sorry Aaron, it's more broadly defined than that. You don't have to have your own personal best friend or god in a religion - think of people who worship Gaia.

I'd go even further and say that it's just a belief system that can't be scientifically verified - like rune stones or crystals. All those kinda things we can shove under the general category of 'religion'.

Anthropogenic climate change fits perfectly under that umbrella. Not a science because it has zero predictive capacity, beliefs about catastrophic things to come (doomsday cult?), people outside the cult are evil etc etc.

Lots of people in my experience have "religious holes" in their lives, it's just a matter of what they fill it with. Some people fill it with actual religion, some people become worshippers of consumerism or money. Rampant nationalists could be construed as being religious. At the moment there's a big fashion to fill it with the cult of anthropogenic climate change, that carbon dioxide is the devil incarnate - there's also other stuff kicking about like feminism, eating disorders, gender identity - you name it.

There's no definite academic consensus on what a religion is, mate.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Funnily enough, the Bible mentions harsh judgment on those who destroy the Earth in Revelation 11:18:

".... and the time has come to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

Environmental vandals beware.
Carnot
Revelation says many dumb things.

It also says that there will be a woman clothed in the sun with the moon at her feet - religious nuts of the day must have been smeg themselves that NASA was going to put Sally Ride on the moon… Would it have been better or worse for you knowing that she turned out to be a lesbian, despite being married? Sodom and Gomorrah all over again huh?

It says that a bowl will turn the oceans to blood and all the creatures in it will die - but I thought a trumpet already killed everything in the oceans - whilst, curiously, managing to only destroy a third of all ships. Then there’s a different bowl that turns fresh water to blood, but oddly nothing seems to die - why does your god discriminate between salt and freshwater crocodiles for example? Why if I am swimming in the ocean at the time I get to die, but if I happen to be swimming in a river I seemingly don’t? What if it’s a river mouth? Below what level of salinity am I safe?

It’s all just rubbish made up by men projecting their limited intellect on a ‘being’ who turns out to look not very smart considering it’s supposed to be all knowing.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Nah sorry Aaron, it's more broadly defined than that. You don't have to have your own personal best friend or god in a religion - think of people who worship Gaia.

I'd go even further and say that it's just a belief system that can't be scientifically verified - like rune stones or crystals. All those kinda things we can shove under the general category of 'religion'.

Anthropogenic climate change fits perfectly under that umbrella. Not a science because it has zero predictive capacity, beliefs about catastrophic things to come (doomsday cult?), people outside the cult are evil etc etc.

Lots of people in my experience have "religious holes" in their lives, it's just a matter of what they fill it with. Some people fill it with actual religion, some people become worshippers of consumerism or money. Rampant nationalists could be construed as being religious. At the moment there's a big fashion to fill it with the cult of anthropogenic climate change, that carbon dioxide is the devil incarnate - there's also other stuff kicking about like feminism, eating disorders, gender identity - you name it.

There's no definite academic consensus on what a religion is, mate.
don_dunstan
Don, can I introduce you to this little academic document the rest of us call ‘a dictionary’? It literally contains a list of words and what they mean…

That you don’t like the academic definitions is not a fault in the word, or the dictionary, it’s a fault in you and your thinking.

If people worship Gaia - that’s a religion, Gaia is a (Greek) deity - quite literally a goddess.

Runestones exist, you can go to Sweden and see them, likewise crystals, you can believe in both, but that’s just a belief, and belief does not make religion. What you call worship is just a ritual and that doesn’t imply that you can shove it into a religion either.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Don, can I introduce you to this little academic document the rest of us call ‘a dictionary’? It literally contains a list of words and what they mean…

That you don’t like the academic definitions is not a fault in the word, or the dictionary, it’s a fault in you and your thinking.

If people worship Gaia - that’s a religion, Gaia is a (Greek) deity - quite literally a goddess.

Runestones exist, you can go to Sweden and see them, likewise crystals, you can believe in both, but that’s just a belief, and belief does not make religion. What you call worship is just a ritual and that doesn’t imply that you can shove it into a religion either.
Aaron
The definition of what constitutes a religion is really broad, Aaron - it's not narrow and specific like you want it to be.

If you don't like the fact that its really broad the fault isn't with the definition, its with you and your absolutist, positivist thinking that says there's only one answer to a question and its the answer that you yourself have come up with. It isn't your narrow definition that must involve gods or deities, mate, its much broader than that.

People can certainly worship objects that don't have a personal god or a humanised deity behind them - what about the Old Testament story of the golden calf? A religion is just a belief that gets put into a code or a system - that's all.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Funnily enough, the Bible mentions harsh judgment on those who destroy the Earth in Revelation 11:18:

".... and the time has come to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

Environmental vandals beware.
Revelation says many dumb things.

It also says that there will be a woman clothed in the sun with the moon at her feet - religious nuts of the day must have been smeg themselves that NASA was going to put Sally Ride on the moon… Would it have been better or worse for you knowing that she turned out to be a lesbian, despite being married? Sodom and Gomorrah all over again huh?

It says that a bowl will turn the oceans to blood and all the creatures in it will die - but I thought a trumpet already killed everything in the oceans - whilst, curiously, managing to only destroy a third of all ships. Then there’s a different bowl that turns fresh water to blood, but oddly nothing seems to die - why does your god discriminate between salt and freshwater crocodiles for example? Why if I am swimming in the ocean at the time I get to die, but if I happen to be swimming in a river I seemingly don’t? What if it’s a river mouth? Below what level of salinity am I safe?

It’s all just rubbish made up by men projecting their limited intellect on a ‘being’ who turns out to look not very smart considering it’s supposed to be all knowing.
Aaron
You obviously have no idea about the literary genre of apocalyptic literature and the symbolism it contains.  (Which can also be said about most of the RWNJs wildly misinterpreting it).
  Carnot Minister for Railways

In some defense of Don, the Extinction Rebellion crowd come close to being a fanatical religious cult IMO.  Yep, the mob that regularly blocks public transport (powered by renewables) in the cities....

Nuts.
  Sonofagunzel Minister for Railways

I miss John of Melbourne.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
In some defense of Don, the Extinction Rebellion crowd come close to being a fanatical religious cult IMO.  Yep, the mob that regularly blocks public transport (powered by renewables) in the cities....

Nuts.
Carnot
There are extremists on all sides.

Right now I feel the approach being undertaken by the respective state and fed govts is around the right course, moving to RE but not bankrupting the country in the process focusing on conversion through end of life upgrades anf replacements.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The Coal price has gone insane. Now over $450/tonne!

Makes renewables even more attractive.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The Coal price has gone insane. Now over $450/tonne!

Makes renewables even more attractive.
Carnot
Makes coal mining super economical more like it!
  Carnot Minister for Railways

And all that extra coal that China is burning negated any gains made in renewable energy production elsewhere in the world...
https://reneweconomy.com.au/china-causes-new-high-in-global-energy-emissions-despite-record-wind-and-solar-additions/

Dot points;
  • Post-pandemic electricity demand in China jumped by 10% in 2021, adding 700TWh, which the IEA points out is the equivalent of the total demand of all of Africa – and the largest jump in demand ever experienced in China.

  • Coal accounted for over 40% of the overall growth in global CO2 energy sector emissions in 2021, with coal emissions hitting an all-time high of 15.3 Gt, surpassing their previous peak in 2014 by almost 200 Mt.

  • The IEA also notes that the global emissions reduction impact of “record electric car sales” in 2021 was cancelled out by the parallel increase in sales of SUVs.


So much for Klaus Schwab's "Great Reset"....
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
The ABC misdirecting the narrative towards its own agenda - as usual -

Climate change is already increasing the price Australians pay for food and the problem will only get worse, a new report has warned.

The environment group Farmers for Climate Action, which commissioned the report, has warned global warming will lead to higher food prices and shortages for consumers.

"Australia's food supply chain is more fragile than people think," report author Stephen Bartos said.

"We have seen examples in recent months of supermarkets running out of food, empty shelves.

"And that's something that, as climate change continues, is going to become an altogether more frequent occurrence."

The "Farmers for Climate Action Group" - why do they bother quoting garbage from those lobbyist groups entirely funded by millionaires with a direct financial interest in promoting wind energy? Short answer is that they agree with the findings so they uncritically publish these things without a skerrick of critical examination.

Higher food prices are a direct result of the printing and borrowing of trillions of dollars of new money during the pandemic AND the fact that workers have been sick with Omicron in the last three months AND the fact that un-vaccinated workers have been sacked causing an entirely artificial shortage of workers.

The rains on the eastern seaboard are nothing out of the usual for summer despite what the Farmers for Climate Action Group is trying to tell people.

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