Standard Gauge VLocity

 
  Yappo Train Controller

There were some excellent pictures of the new standard gauge set on test this weekend on Twitter/Facebook but I've lost where they were - second generation of V/locity looks quite different from the first.
don_dunstan
Declan Martin posted a couple of pics yesterday. Maybe those?

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  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Still it leaves any MCF unit occupying the train's capacity without operating for an average of 50% of the journey time.  Does the pre-COVID demand of any Albury services comfortably fit into a 3-car train?
route14
Since the Bunbury sightings reveal that VS93 and VS94 are often split to run as 3 car, then yes.  Any updates @Michelle12?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Were they pre-COVID?
  Tii Chief Train Controller

Modern Catering Facility (a three-word replacement for buffet).
kitchgp
Not even sure you could say buffet. Isn't it a person selling refrigerated sandwiches, packs of chips/crisps, snickers and some sort of hot brown liquid.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
I demand the V/Line app tell me which car set will have the stale chicken sandwich and chips first. A. smart commuter could board the non serviced set first with a bag of snacks and drinks and cash in first!
Tii

I had a chicken sandwich on wholemeal last Friday morning on the DOWN Swan Hill and though it was made in Queensland, it definitely was not stale.
V/Line have never sold chips, too dangerous having fat/oil slopping about, however V/Line does sell crisps. Smile

Mike.
  Tii Chief Train Controller

I demand the V/Line app tell me which car set will have the stale chicken sandwich and chips first. A. smart commuter could board the non serviced set first with a bag of snacks and drinks and cash in first!

I had a chicken sandwich on wholemeal last Friday morning on the DOWN Swan Hill and though it was made in Queensland, it definitely was not stale.
V/Line have never sold chips, too dangerous having fat/oil slopping about, however V/Line does sell crisps. Smile

Mike.
The Vinelander
V/Line might need to reach into their purse and buy an air fryer then.  Can they manage a sausage roll at least?
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
As has been said many times, the concept of 3-car Vlocities is inflexible for short distance (Ballarat/Bendigo et al) trips but it is far worse for long haul when more than one set is used.

The idea of staff (and, potentially passengers Rolling Eyes)) running between consists at intermediate stations to serve/buy refreshments is positively Victorian and typically Vline.
  murray2612 Station Master

Location: South Yarra
The long distance vlocity purchase is the biggest missed opportunity in the Victorian era. Many other trains better designed for longer distance and available off the shelf but Victoria just doesn’t get it and will probably never get it.

I now wait for the responses on how wonderful they are and how that is all Victoria could afford and how we have a small population and the costs the usual.
What is your solution then? I am just curious.

Mannie
My solution would have been the option of a reclining seat for passengers. One of the main reasons people take the train on a long-distance service is to have a rest.
If you want reclining seats, take a V/Bus.
Thanks for the offer, but my answer to Mannie's question is going to remain as a train with a reclining seat, like every other regional train operator throughout the nation.
One of the most appealing features of a Velocity is that the seats don't recline, and as such the inconsiderate sod in the seat ahead of you doesn't take your personal space in the wrongful belief that it is their right to rob you of your space, while no doubt protesting against the sod in front of them for invading their personal space.  If you want to lay down, go to a hotel or travel in a sleeping compartment on a night train.
gunzel42
Sounds like you've only ever travelled cattle-class, where reclining seats don't belong. Reclining seats work well with the appropriate pitch(distance between seats) that you find in First(N/XPT etc) and even Red Premium on the Sloverland. Fixed seats are great for short-distance/commuter travellers.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I demand the V/Line app tell me which car set will have the stale chicken sandwich and chips first. A. smart commuter could board the non serviced set first with a bag of snacks and drinks and cash in first!

I had a chicken sandwich on wholemeal last Friday morning on the DOWN Swan Hill and though it was made in Queensland, it definitely was not stale.
V/Line have never sold chips, too dangerous having fat/oil slopping about, however V/Line does sell crisps. Smile

Mike.
V/Line might need to reach into their purse and buy an air fryer then.  Can they manage a sausage roll at least?
Tii
Air fryer. Fair go. Remember when microwaves first became available? It took the VR and the ARU (whoever) ages for them to be adopted  in case everyone got radiation poisoning.
  Jordy33 Locomotive Driver

In my opinion they really should just make the SG vlocities into 5 car sets. Unlike the BG lines, SG has more infrastructure for 5 car length, which is very convenient. It means that a first class carriage could be installed (I personally don’t think it would be required though).
Importantly it means services can run as a single 5 car set so that the same buffet can always be open, but also allows more maintenance flexibility or increased services.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
In my opinion they really should just make the SG vlocities into 5 car sets. Unlike the BG lines, SG has more infrastructure for 5 car length, which is very convenient. It means that a first class carriage could be installed (I personally don’t think it would be required though).
Importantly it means services can run as a single 5 car set so that the same buffet can always be open, but also allows more maintenance flexibility or increased services.
Jordy33
Makes sense to me therefore it won't happen.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
In my opinion they really should just make the SG vlocities into 5 car sets. Unlike the BG lines, SG has more infrastructure for 5 car length, which is very convenient. It means that a first class carriage could be installed (I personally don’t think it would be required though).
Importantly it means services can run as a single 5 car set so that the same buffet can always be open, but also allows more maintenance flexibility or increased services.
Jordy33
This has been discussed ad infinitum on RP - where is the maintenance to be done on these SG sets and what is the capacity of said depots?

As one RP poster has been saying for years 4 or 5 car sets on the BG could give much more operational flexibility but V/Line seem to be sticking to their guns and keeping everything to 3 cars.

Possibly because they don't want to spend the $$$ on enlarging the maintenance depots just for a few trains a week when the 3 / 6 works fine for many existing services (don't get me wrong, my opinion is that it is just V/Line being lazy but at the end of the day the government just seems to do what V/Line say no matter how foolish or inefficient it appears to others)
  steve195 Train Controller

ARTC might have managed to break a VL in less than 6 months. You have to and it to them, it's impressive considering how generally reliable the trains have been.


https://www.bordermail.com.au/story/7760515/new-train-off-rails-with-damage-but-no-consensus-on-how-it-was-caused/
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
In my opinion they really should just make the SG vlocities into 5 car sets. Unlike the BG lines, SG has more infrastructure for 5 car length, which is very convenient. It means that a first class carriage could be installed (I personally don’t think it would be required though).
Importantly it means services can run as a single 5 car set so that the same buffet can always be open, but also allows more maintenance flexibility or increased services.
Makes sense to me therefore it won't happen.
YM-Mundrabilla

Isn't that more a loco hauled carriage service?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

ARTC might have managed to break a VL in less than 6 months. You have to and it to them, it's impressive considering how generally reliable the trains have been.


https://www.bordermail.com.au/story/7760515/new-train-off-rails-with-damage-but-no-consensus-on-how-it-was-caused/
steve195
What a joke.  Shambolic.

RP have posted story in full: https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/v-line-withdraws-vlocity-after-damage-and-no-timeframe-set-out-for-its-return-as-cause-of-problem-cloudy
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
ARTC might have managed to break a VL in less than 6 months. You have to and it to them, it's impressive considering how generally reliable the trains have been.


https://www.bordermail.com.au/story/7760515/new-train-off-rails-with-damage-but-no-consensus-on-how-it-was-caused/
What a joke.  Shambolic.

RP have posted story in full: https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/v-line-withdraws-vlocity-after-damage-and-no-timeframe-set-out-for-its-return-as-cause-of-problem-cloudy
Carnot

Where is the issue here?

Does V/Line or ARTC need to respond?  What is the contract between the Federal Government and the PTV for track access and quality arrangements?
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
ARTC might have managed to break a VL in less than 6 months. You have to and it to them, it's impressive considering how generally reliable the trains have been.
What a joke.  Shambolic.
RP have posted story in full: https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/v-line-withdraws-vlocity-after-damage-and-no-timeframe-set-out-for-its-return-as-cause-of-problem-cloudy
Carnot
Shambolic agreed. It's not just the VLocity having issues
A source who keeps on eye on these things suggests that all Albury services have been bustituted yesterday and today with the usual lame excuses.
Haven't looked in detail but almost all the SG rolling stock is out of action at the moment. The carriage sets have wheel issues (flats from skidding IIRC) and lunch room gossip suggests that there is a wheel/flange wear issue on the SG Vlo's. Apparently they're running one kitted out with cameras and test equipment to find out what, where and why its occurring. Would seem there is something unique about the Nth East SG that is causing problems that are not found elsewhere.
jakar
I wonder how the XPT sets are fareing.

Has anybody said "mud holes" yet?

cheers
John
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
ARTC might have managed to break a VL in less than 6 months. You have to and it to them, it's impressive considering how generally reliable the trains have been.
What a joke.  Shambolic.
RP have posted story in full: https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/v-line-withdraws-vlocity-after-damage-and-no-timeframe-set-out-for-its-return-as-cause-of-problem-cloudy
Shambolic agreed. It's not just the VLocity having issues
A source who keeps on eye on these things suggests that all Albury services have been bustituted yesterday and today with the usual lame excuses.
Haven't looked in detail but almost all the SG rolling stock is out of action at the moment. The carriage sets have wheel issues (flats from skidding IIRC) and lunch room gossip suggests that there is a wheel/flange wear issue on the SG Vlo's. Apparently they're running one kitted out with cameras and test equipment to find out what, where and why its occurring. Would seem there is something unique about the Nth East SG that is causing problems that are not found elsewhere.
I wonder how the XPT sets are fareing.

Has anybody said "mud holes" yet?

cheers
John
justarider
Ever since they done the ballasting in the last 24 months the Northeast became the best riding track according to most of the V/line drivers I talked too.
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Ever since they done the ballasting in the last 24 months the Northeast became the best riding track according to most of the V/line drivers I talked too.
speedemon08
Ah ha !! There's the problem.

VLine rolling stock has never experienced good track, and cannot cope.
  Yappo Train Controller

Bordermail photographer has some pics of the wheel issue





  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Bordermail photographer has some pics of the wheel issue





Yappo
What are we looking at here, for the non wheel engineers amongst us?
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Bordermail photographer has some pics of the wheel issue





What are we looking at here, for the non wheel engineers amongst us?
james.au
Possibly some potential flange contact ?????
  historian Chief Commissioner

Bordermail photographer has some pics of the wheel issue





What are we looking at here, for the non wheel engineers amongst us?
james.au

I'm not a wheel engineer, but the bright patches on the side of the wheel tread aren't what I'd expect to see. They look like spalling (slivers of the edge coming off).

To me, it looks like the non flange side of of the wheel is hitting something very close to the rail head somewhere between Melbourne and Albury.

I wonder how *wide* the wheel tread is, and if it is just a shade wider than that on the normal rolling stock using this corridor?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW

I'm not a wheel engineer, but the bright patches on the side of the wheel tread aren't what I'd expect to see. They look like spalling (slivers of the edge coming off).

To me, it looks like the non flange side of of the wheel is hitting something very close to the rail head somewhere between Melbourne and Albury.

I wonder how *wide* the wheel tread is, and if it is just a shade wider than that on the normal rolling stock using this corridor?
historian
My god if someone has stuffed up the wheel profiles I swear im going to come down there and, I dont know, rage.  

I feel this is one of the basic things to get right.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Bordermail photographer has some pics of the wheel issue





What are we looking at here, for the non wheel engineers amongst us?

I'm not a wheel engineer, but the bright patches on the side of the wheel tread aren't what I'd expect to see. They look like spalling (slivers of the edge coming off).

To me, it looks like the non flange side of of the wheel is hitting something very close to the rail head somewhere between Melbourne and Albury.

I wonder how *wide* the wheel tread is, and if it is just a shade wider than that on the normal rolling stock using this corridor?
I, too, am not a rolling stock engineer.

Nevertheless, I think that I can see two separate areas of damage:
  1. There is rim face damage, perhaps caused by ballast or other foreign material or even a high road surface at a level crossing. This is not a wheel/rail interface issue but caused by some interference outside the rail. Random thought; could this be caused by a worn frog or other perway defect? One for the Roadmasters here on RP. If it was not newly painted would anyone ever know the difference?
  2. On enlargement of the photos there seems to me a more serious (?)problem. There appears early flange wear damage leading  to arrises/sharp flanges. One can see steel filings and damage close the the flange root.

A few other, probably baseless, 'armchair' thoughts:
  1. Strange that everything else (80km/h, 115 km/h freight, XPTs and loco hauled N sets) utilising the NE SG do so more or less successfully wheelwise. The Vlocity being the only exception.
  2. Apart from the wheel wear disaster a few years ago we haven't heard of systemic wheel problems of Vlocitys on Vline track.
  3. Was damage to the entire train ie every bogie?
  4. Is the flange wear on all wheels of all bogies?
  5. As has already been suggested run a Vlocity to Serviceton and see what happens?
  6. Obviously there is just about 100% that we don't know.

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