Melbourne's Tram fleet - new G Class order

 
Topic moved from Melbourne suburban by bevans on 21 Apr 2022 13:51
  Yappo Chief Train Controller

100 new G Class trams for $1.85B! (F Class gets a miss) To replace all the remaining Z class and then some of the A & B class. Obviously, a futher order will be required in a few years.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/boost-jobs-biggest-tram-project-gets-underway


French company to build 100 new Melbourne trams under $1.85 billion deal

The Victorian government has inked a $1.85 billion deal with French rolling stock manufacturer Alstom to build 100 accessible trams in Melbourne’s south-east. The trams, which will be known as the G class, will feature 65 per cent of locally manufactured components and come off the production line in 2025.

They will replace some of Melbourne’s A, B and Z models, which have high floors and are less accessible for people with disabilities. The project is expected to create about 1900 jobs in manufacturing, the supply chain and the construction of a depot and maintenance facility in Maidstone. Premier Daniel Andrews said the contract was about jobs and securing the future of the manufacturing and rail industry in Victoria, which was “on its knees”.

“They need orders not just for boom and bust, but a solid order book that gives them the ability to hire, to train, to invest, and to deliver a fantastic product. “This is the biggest ever investment in trams and one of the most significant investments in rolling stock.” “What [manufacturers] need to secure their future is long-term certainty,” Andrews said. Andrews said production would begin at Alstom’s facility in Dandenong next year, with the first trams to join the network in 2025.

The new models will be fitted with on-board power battery systems which will make them less reliant on the grid and reduce the need to upgrade substations and the power supply. Public Transport Minister Ben Carroll said the trams, which will be fitted for deployment to any part of the state’s network, were a game-changer for the industry. “It is a real steep change in terms of accessibility and energy efficiency,” he said.

“The power propulsion, the regenerative braking means we can put these trams anywhere, we don’t have to build substations don’t have to retrofit any part of the network also.” Carroll said the trams will be twice as spacious as current models to encourage social distancing and provide space for wheelchairs and mobility aids, and significantly quieter.



The new trams will replace some of Melbourne’s A, B and Z models. The design will be refined in consultation with accessibility advocates, passengers, and tram divers following a tender process. Alstom has become the key rolling stock manufacturer in Victoria after it acquired Melbournes's former tram maker Bombardier in 2020. Bombardier built the VLocity trains that run on the V/Line network.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/french-company-to-build-100-new-melbourne-trams-under-1-85-billion-deal-20220421-p5af0t.html


https://yarratrams.com.au/our-fleet-today

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
This will be the second G Class fleet.





Sydney also had a G Class Fleet at one point.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
So did Melbourne. Which means (presumably) that this fleet will be known as G1.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
They look smart, hopefully better than the original C1 class which I always thought were inferior to the Siemens-made D class.
  WimbledonW Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
So did Melbourne. Which means (presumably) that this fleet will be known as G1.
railblogger
What happened to the F-class trams?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

100 new G Class trams for $1.85B! (F Class gets a miss) To replace all the remaining Z class and then some of the A & B class. Obviously, a futher order will be required in a few years.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/boost-jobs-biggest-tram-project-gets-underway


French company to build 100 new Melbourne trams under $1.85 billion deal

The Victorian government has inked a $1.85 billion deal with French rolling stock manufacturer Alstom to build 100 accessible trams in Melbourne’s south-east. The trams, which will be known as the G class, will feature 65 per cent of locally manufactured components and come off the production line in 2025.

They will replace some of Melbourne’s A, B and Z models, which have high floors and are less accessible for people with disabilities. The project is expected to create about 1900 jobs in manufacturing, the supply chain and the construction of a depot and maintenance facility in Maidstone. Premier Daniel Andrews said the contract was about jobs and securing the future of the manufacturing and rail industry in Victoria, which was “on its knees”.

“They need orders not just for boom and bust, but a solid order book that gives them the ability to hire, to train, to invest, and to deliver a fantastic product. “This is the biggest ever investment in trams and one of the most significant investments in rolling stock.” “What [manufacturers] need to secure their future is long-term certainty,” Andrews said. Andrews said production would begin at Alstom’s facility in Dandenong next year, with the first trams to join the network in 2025.

The new models will be fitted with on-board power battery systems which will make them less reliant on the grid and reduce the need to upgrade substations and the power supply. Public Transport Minister Ben Carroll said the trams, which will be fitted for deployment to any part of the state’s network, were a game-changer for the industry. “It is a real steep change in terms of accessibility and energy efficiency,” he said.

“The power propulsion, the regenerative braking means we can put these trams anywhere, we don’t have to build substations don’t have to retrofit any part of the network also.” Carroll said the trams will be twice as spacious as current models to encourage social distancing and provide space for wheelchairs and mobility aids, and significantly quieter.



The new trams will replace some of Melbourne’s A, B and Z models. The design will be refined in consultation with accessibility advocates, passengers, and tram divers following a tender process. Alstom has become the key rolling stock manufacturer in Victoria after it acquired Melbournes's former tram maker Bombardier in 2020. Bombardier built the VLocity trains that run on the V/Line network.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/french-company-to-build-100-new-melbourne-trams-under-1-85-billion-deal-20220421-p5af0t.html


https://yarratrams.com.au/our-fleet-today
Yappo
The intention pre-pandemic was to replace first up all Z class and then the  A class with this NEW variant on the basis of 1.7 new G class for each  Z/A class to cater for both replacement and patronage growth  at a rate of 25 tpa from 2025 onwards.
Replacement of the B2 with low floor trams then comes after that.
With the on-board energy storage there should also be the opportunity for short route extensions unwired like Port Melbourne to the Station Pier Gate.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

There’s been a class of tram for every letter of the alphabet, except I (presumably to avoid confusion with 1), allocated in sequence from A. There were a few odd ones such as VR (3 trams) and PCC (2). When they got to Z they just started again, by which time, obviously, the first As where long out of service.

Perhaps the G stands for Next Generation Tram. Someone in the PR department making a name for themselves. Does this mean that the next class of tram after this one will be G2 (Next Generation Tram 2) and so forth, in the tradition of mobile phone standards, 3G, 4G, etc? It may be trivial, but in this case why interfere with tradition?
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Interferring with tradition gives tiny minds a feeling of progress and modernity.
As Humphrey Appleby says it is activity in lieu of achievement.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

..........................................

With the on-board energy storage there should also be the opportunity for short route extensions unwired like Port Melbourne to the Station Pier Gate.
kuldalai
Unless the cruise industry makes a stunning comeback, it seems less likely now that the Spirit of Tasmania is moving to Geelong,
  Chrono Detector Assistant Commissioner

Location: Tram 57/59
I'm assuming when Maidstone Depot has finally completed construction and up and running, it will replace Essendon Depot I'm guessing since the existing Essendon tram depot does not have adequate space to fit larger trams. I'm also assuming these new trams will run on the 57, hopefully since the 57 is the only city bound route not to have a larger tram allocated to it.

Can't wait to see those Z3's go, why did the government even bother refurbishing them for the second time when that money could have been spent on purchasing new trams, why in this day and age smaller trams with no air-conditioning and not even accessible to the disabled are still running on the network is mind baffling.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Reported today in the HS the project budget already blown out.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Yarra Trams Update:

Hi there, these new vehicles will be the 7th generation of trams for our network and have been assigned the letter class ‘G’ – the 7th letter of the alphabet.

G Class trams will also receive individual vehicle numbers starting from 7001.
Yarra Trams

so will be a G class.
  John.Z Deputy Commissioner

The intention pre-pandemic was to replace first up all Z class and then the  A class with this NEW variant on the basis of 1.7 new G class for each  Z/A class to cater for both replacement and patronage growth  at a rate of 25 tpa from 2025 onwards.
Replacement of the B2 with low floor trams then comes after that.
With the on-board energy storage there should also be the opportunity for short route extensions unwired like Port Melbourne to the Station Pier Gate.
kuldalai

The onboard storage is purely for making the power draw on the network more even (rather than surge based on the acceleration demand of the tram). It is not for running without wires, which isn't something we will see here in Vic as it is non-sensical.

I can't see the A-class trams being retired with this order, even if that was the initial plan. Frequencies are sparse as it is, going from 12 to 15 minute headways is moving in the wrong direction, we need to be moving towards 6-10 minute headways on all routes from first to last tram (with additional during peak demand as needed).
  John.Z Deputy Commissioner

There’s been a class of tram for every letter of the alphabet, except I (presumably to avoid confusion with 1), allocated in sequence from A. There were a few odd ones such as VR (3 trams) and PCC (2). When they got to Z they just started again, by which time, obviously, the first As where long out of service.

Perhaps the G stands for Next Generation Tram. Someone in the PR department making a name for themselves. Does this mean that the next class of tram after this one will be G2 (Next Generation Tram 2) and so forth, in the tradition of mobile phone standards, 3G, 4G, etc? It may be trivial, but in this case why interfere with tradition?
kitchgp
G is the 7th letter of the alphabet and the tram numbers will start with 7. That's the reason, nothing to do with next generations.

If the cab gets a redesign or they insert another module, it'll be known as G2 (as with the E2 v E1), but that seems unlikely. And when the tram bigger than the E gets tendered (which is next in line), it'll most likely be H class and numbered starting with 8.
  John.Z Deputy Commissioner

I'm assuming when Maidstone Depot has finally completed construction and up and running, it will replace Essendon Depot I'm guessing since the existing Essendon tram depot does not have adequate space to fit larger trams. I'm also assuming these new trams will run on the 57, hopefully since the 57 is the only city bound route not to have a larger tram allocated to it.

Can't wait to see those Z3's go, why did the government even bother refurbishing them for the second time when that money could have been spent on purchasing new trams, why in this day and age smaller trams with no air-conditioning and not even accessible to the disabled are still running on the network is mind baffling.
Chrono Detector
Can't see Essendon depot being shut down. We need more depot space not less as we keep buying longer and longer trams but replacing at 1:1 ratio. Maidstone gives flexibility, especially if the gov is serious about building a new route or two out west (highly unlikely but one can dream).
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I am not a tram traveller and to me there are basically two types of trams, viz 'proper trams' and 'plastic trams'. All plastic trams look alike to me (idiot). LaughingRolling Eyes

In spite of the foregoing I sometimes wonder what were the real, perceived and/or imaginary advantages of the A class over the Z3 trams?
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
I'm just going to assume that a G class will be roughly the same size as a B2 or C1, and hopefully no smaller.

The key word being "some". With 100 trams on order and presumably the entire lot going to the 57/58/59/82, and ~170 Z and A class trams (not even counting the 130 B2s), we needed at least 30 more E classes in order to supplement routes 75 and 109. Absolute stupidity that the E class order has finished.

Armchair time.

Lost potential:

Assuming 30 E classes were ordered and everything still fit inside each depot...
  • 15 E classes to Kew for the 109 could displace 18 C1s (half the fleet), which could be used at Southbank for routes 12 and 30 (putting a stop to E classes carrying air on the latter), with Kew's remaining C1s running on the 48 and maybe 78.
  • 15 E classes to Camberwell for the 75 could displace 20 B2s, which would end up on the 70 and/or at Glenhuntly or wherever else still uses B2s by then.
  • If the order was for 50 trams instead of 30, 20 E classes could be allocated to Brunswick for route 19, with the entire fleet of 21 D2s moved to Malvern (Combino familiarity). Steal another E class or two previously wasted on the 30 to make up for the extra D2. No real need for Brunswick to help with route 6 if that happens.

That basically just leaves Glenhuntly with high floor trams, unless the 3/64/67 end up being shared with another depot (Brunswick? If they no longer need to run route 6). Or if Malvern does the evil, evil thing of giving Glenhuntly a few hand-me-down D1s. Smile
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I'm assuming when Maidstone Depot has finally completed construction and up and running, it will replace Essendon Depot I'm guessing since the existing Essendon tram depot does not have adequate space to fit larger trams. I'm also assuming these new trams will run on the 57, hopefully since the 57 is the only city bound route not to have a larger tram allocated to it.

Can't wait to see those Z3's go, why did the government even bother refurbishing them for the second time when that money could have been spent on purchasing new trams, why in this day and age smaller trams with no air-conditioning and not even accessible to the disabled are still running on the network is mind baffling.
Chrono Detector
Route 57 will need some work before anything longer than a Z can run on it, especially between the Market and Abbotsford St interchange. Lots of closely spaced street level stops that are very short, the rear door of a Z barely fits inside some of them, it's not uncommon to get up close and personal with a yellow concrete safety zone barrier when alighting!

The stop at Haines St and the one at Arden St are ready but almost all the others would need to be redone before the Zs get the chop They recently did away with a stop or 2 on Abbotsford St between Haines St and the interchange which is a good start but lots still to do and in some cases limited space to do it in
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Simple, get rid of half the intermediate tram stops as with most other useless Melbourne tram routes. The 57 isn't my turf so I don't know the stop numbers, but going by tressteleg1's YouTube video the amount of tram stops is ridiculous in this day and age. Probably the most glaring example on the 57 is Canning St, you could almost bridge the gap between there and Haines St with an E class. Does Abbotsford St seriously need six tram stops within the single kilometre of tram track? 1000 / 6 = 166.67 metres average distance. For comparison, a suburban railway platform is 160m.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Simple, get rid of half the intermediate tram stops as with most other useless Melbourne tram routes. The 57 isn't my turf so I don't know the stop numbers, but going by tresseleg1's YouTube video the amount of tram stops is ridiculous in this day and age. Probably the most glaring example on the 57 is Canning St, you could almost bridge the gap between there and Haines St with an E class. Does Abbotsford St seriously need six tram stops within the single kilometre of tram track? 1000 / 6 = 166.67 metres average distance. For comparison, a suburban railway platform is 160m.
Heihachi_73
Yeah, it is ridiculous, they have just removed Stop 18 Erskine St & Abbottsford St which was insanely close to Abbotsford St interchange and I assume the eventual plan will be to create one large stop between Haines St and Abbotsford Interchange

But the bigger problem is when you turn into Queensbury St, the street is quite narrow and also very busy with route 402 buses as well as other traffic. They will have to slash a lot of car parking in order to put decent stops in. Errol St should lose the stops at each end to be replaced with a Superstop in the middle but then the next problem is Victoria St which is still quite the thoroughfare and boasts a heap more silly little tram stops too close together

Will be interesting to see how they deal with this section
  Myrtone Chief Commissioner

Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
The onboard storage is purely for making the power draw on the network more even (rather than surge based on the acceleration demand of the tram). It is not for running without wires, which isn't something we will see here in Vic as it is non-sensical.
John.Z
If the batteries have enough capacity, it means the Maidstone depot could be unwired. It could also keep open the future option of extensions without wires. If battery buses make sense, maybe battery trams too.
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
If the batteries have enough capacity, it means the Maidstone depot could be unwired. It could also keep open the future option of extensions without wires. If battery buses make sense, maybe battery trams too.
Myrtone
An unwired depot is OK until you have a tram with uncharged battery!  Presumably the depot will be used for commissioning of the trams.
  Halo Chief Train Controller

I would suspect they are actually installing capacitors, they only hold a few seconds power.

People seem to forget batteries are heavy things, and if your carting them 100s of km every day, that costs even more money.
  John.Z Deputy Commissioner

If the batteries have enough capacity, it means the Maidstone depot could be unwired. It could also keep open the future option of extensions without wires. If battery buses make sense, maybe battery trams too.
Myrtone
What's the point of having an unwired depot? Why the need for wireless? It's not that expensive to string some wires, and having the batteries/capacitors onboard means you don't need to spend nearly as much on current capacity for the peak draw during acceleration.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The onboard storage is purely for making the power draw on the network more even (rather than surge based on the acceleration demand of the tram). It is not for running without wires, which isn't something we will see here in Vic as it is non-sensical.
If the batteries have enough capacity, it means the Maidstone depot could be unwired. It could also keep open the future option of extensions without wires. If battery buses make sense, maybe battery trams too.
Myrtone
Myrtone I attended a webinar where a DOT representative from the rollingstock group said quite clearly short extensions beyond existing termini if run with G class could be unwired BUT wired at the terminus proper to accommodate one or two trams to re-charge afresh to get the tram back over the short unwired distance to join the inner fully wired network.

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