Standard Gauge VLocity

 
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik

I'm not a wheel engineer, but the bright patches on the side of the wheel tread aren't what I'd expect to see. They look like spalling (slivers of the edge coming off).

To me, it looks like the non flange side of of the wheel is hitting something very close to the rail head somewhere between Melbourne and Albury.

I wonder how *wide* the wheel tread is, and if it is just a shade wider than that on the normal rolling stock using this corridor?My god if someone has stuffed up the wheel profiles I swear im going to come down there and, I dont know, rage.  

I feel this is one of the basic things to get right.
james.au
Did you know that Murphy and Heath Robinson both work on 'bastard fixes' for Vline/Metro/PTV?

IF we ever get to the bottom of this problem and hear the result I will then say (or not) 'I could have told you that'.

Sadly, I am of little faith these days.

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  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
Bordermail photographer has some pics of the wheel issue

What are we looking at here, for the non wheel engineers amongst us?

I'm not a wheel engineer, but the bright patches on the side of the wheel tread aren't what I'd expect to see. They look like spalling (slivers of the edge coming off).

To me, it looks like the non flange side of of the wheel is hitting something very close to the rail head somewhere between Melbourne and Albury.

I wonder how *wide* the wheel tread is, and if it is just a shade wider than that on the normal rolling stock using this corridor?
historian
Bit of a discussion in the V/Line disruptions thread on this: https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p2254507.htm#2254507

A key point is quoted below.

V/Locity's and Sprinters use the PTC MP-2 profile. N Class carriages use MP-1 and the N-Class use the ANZR1 1:40 profile.
KRviator
Also, does anyone know what the labels on the field side of the wheel are for? From what I can read they say "1596 A side" and "1596 B side" and appear to be just hand-written on tape. Perhaps identification for photo close-ups of the apparent damage to the field side of the wheel face and maybe tread?
  hbedriver Deputy Commissioner

Looks like something is contacting the field side of the tyre. Uncertain whether the something is a track issue such as guard rails at a V crossing, perhaps the wheel is laterally moving excessively and contacting bogie frame or similar.

Wheel flats are not uncommon on the SG, especially when following a canola train. Any operator could suffer them, just that V/L makes all those station stops, so much more likely to be applying brakes in a slippery area. Other operators tend to run mostly express (freight trains rarely stop, the XPT only makes 3 stops).
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Looks like something is contacting the field side of the tyre. Uncertain whether the something is a track issue such as guard rails at a V crossing, perhaps the wheel is laterally moving excessively and contacting bogie frame or similar.

Wheel flats are not uncommon on the SG, especially when following a canola train. Any operator could suffer them, just that V/L makes all those station stops, so much more likely to be applying brakes in a slippery area. Other operators tend to run mostly express (freight trains rarely stop, the XPT only makes 3 stops).
hbedriver
Do Vlocitys have SG bogie frames or are they BG frames with SG wheel seats on the axles?
  8502 Assistant Commissioner

Looks like something is contacting the field side of the tyre. Uncertain whether the something is a track issue such as guard rails at a V crossing, perhaps the wheel is laterally moving excessively and contacting bogie frame or similar.

Wheel flats are not uncommon on the SG, especially when following a canola train. Any operator could suffer them, just that V/L makes all those station stops, so much more likely to be applying brakes in a slippery area. Other operators tend to run mostly express (freight trains rarely stop, the XPT only makes 3 stops).
hbedriver

Fascinating and in depth review I am learning more and more every day. Thx to you all and I note ARTC in the article stated there were no issues found with the track either in the metro area or the country lines.  Has the service been running on both the west and east lines simply because the west line from reading was the line converted.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

1596 would be the number of the middle carriage (TMC or Modern Catering Facility) of set 3VS96.
  Tii Chief Train Controller

1596 would be the number of the middle carriage (TMC or Modern Catering Facility) of set 3VS96.
kitchgp
Is it something in the buffet offerings then ?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Do Vlocitys have SG bogie frames or are they BG frames with SG wheel seats on the axles?
YM-Mundrabilla
The SG bogie is supposedly a different design and was one of the reasons for the delay in introducing SG VLocitys. Presumably the bogie is manufactured in the UK.

Pure speculation, however, it's probably a shorter wheel-base, different wheel profile and limited to 130 km/h. (The BG bogies are gauge-convertible, but for other reasons deemed not suitable.)

EDIT: At the moment, all the VLocity cars are powered, including trailers. Each car has one powered bogie and one non-powered.
  skitz Chief Commissioner

Do Vlocitys have SG bogie frames or are they BG frames with SG wheel seats on the axles?
The SG bogie is supposedly a different design and was one of the reasons for the delay in introducing SG VLocitys. Presumably the bogie is manufactured in the UK.

Pure speculation, however, it's probably a shorter wheel-base, different wheel profile and limited to 130 km/h. (The BG bogies are gauge-convertible, but for other reasons deemed not suitable.)
kitchgp
Its impact to field by the face value look of it (though need more information up close for some more 'thinking time', so only speculation at this point)   The questions would be to first compare the tyre width specifications.  If its different (wider) to everything else then the tyre would be contacting everything on level crossing pavements for the entire run on it own.  The impacts if this is the case one would think would be clearly heard by the driver.   Solutions could be to specify the tyre to be the same as everything else, survey the impact possibilities and go trim them all back, let it wear in on its own (what happens in reality at level crossings).    If indeed a wide tyre is the issue, Id recommend making the specification match everything else on the corridor otherwise the rail cars will do all the 'wearing in' of felid side level crossing interactions.  Yet, if the damge is superficial and not a real significant risk, given a bit of time it may just sort itself out.

Note it was a narrow tread on the XPT that contributed to the derailment at Dynon where they interfaced with AN dual gauge point work.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
If wider wheel tread is the case - why?
If the wheels were not newly painted would anyone have ever seen the face 'damage'. I still wonder about the flange root scrapings?
  historian Chief Commissioner

I would note that a follow-up article published yesterday in the Border Mail on a press conference with a Victoria minister (sorry, don't have the link) said:
  1. The wheels affected were the right hand side heading to Melbourne
  2. There might only be a coupe of millimetres in it
  3. They'd surveyed the entire line and identified four locations, any of which (or none) could be the cause.
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
1596 would be the number of the middle carriage (TMC or Modern Catering Facility) of set 3VS96.
kitchgp
How did we miss this little tit bit.

VS96 is the newest in the fleet. It has only been in revenue service one week. Same time  93 & 94 went back to Bombardier.

Hardly time to get out the new car smell, let alone any wear, and a fuss about scratched paint.
If it turns out to be just a bit of scrap steel jammed on the rail, won't we look silly.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Can we assume that the paint scratches were not on the wheels prior to the car running to Albury?
Was there similar 'damage' to any other wheels in the consist?
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Can we assume that the paint scratches were not on the wheels prior to the car running to Albury?
Was there similar 'damage' to any other wheels in the consist?
YM-Mundrabilla
I get the feeling that they have different wheelsets fitted at South Dynon for BG/SG.

And of note, I saw (3VS)97 return from testing today near Dynon.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
1596 would be the number of the middle carriage (TMC or Modern Catering Facility) of set 3VS96.
How did we miss this little tit bit.

VS96 is the newest in the fleet. It has only been in revenue service one week. Same time  93 & 94 went back to Bombardier.

Hardly time to get out the new car smell, let alone any wear, and a fuss about scratched paint.
If it turns out to be just a bit of scrap steel jammed on the rail, won't we look silly.
justarider

Nothing to do with 'tits'...you would probably be referring to a tidbit.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tidbit

Mike.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
1596 would be the number of the middle carriage (TMC or Modern Catering Facility) of set 3VS96.
How did we miss this little tit bit.

VS96 is the newest in the fleet. It has only been in revenue service one week. Same time  93 & 94 went back to Bombardier.

Hardly time to get out the new car smell, let alone any wear, and a fuss about scratched paint.
If it turns out to be just a bit of scrap steel jammed on the rail, won't we look silly.

Nothing to do with 'tits'...you would probably be referring to a tidbit.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tidbit

Mike.
The Vinelander
If a standard gauge Vlocity pulls up at Adelaide Parklands terminal then I'll go for a ride on it - how's that for a promise oh grumpy one...
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Nothing to do with 'tits'...you would probably be referring to a tidbit.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tidbit

Mike.
The Vinelander

A cure for insomniacs:
https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2020/03/tidbit-titbit.html
kitchgp
@mike. Seems you have gone over to the dark side of American spelling( or .. shudder..Cambridge).

I prefer Oxford personally.

cheers
John
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
And they're back again.
https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/albury-vlocity-trains-return-with-additional-monitoring

Official explaination. NFI

cheers
John
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
And they're back again.
https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/albury-vlocity-trains-return-with-additional-monitoring

Official explaination. NFI

cheers
John
justarider

Yes with the additional monitoring.  Do we ever get a truthful position from V/Line?
  Djebel Chief Train Controller

And they're back again.
https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/albury-vlocity-trains-return-with-additional-monitoring

Official explaination. NFI

cheers
John

Yes with the additional monitoring.  Do we ever get a truthful position from V/Line?
bevans
I find it totally plausible that V/Line have NFI.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Nothing to do with 'tits'...you would probably be referring to a tidbit.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tidbit

Mike.

A cure for insomniacs:
https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2020/03/tidbit-titbit.html
@mike. Seems you have gone over to the dark side of American spelling( or .. shudder..Cambridge).

I prefer Oxford personally.

cheers
John
justarider
Whether you prefer Collins, Chambers or Macquarie both titbit and tidbit are shown. However the word is not "tit bit" as originally posted. That would be akin to spelling title as "tit le" (which might be ar*e about French for "tit bit" perhaps)
  jakar Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Do we ever get a truthful position from V/Line?
bevans
Nope, they deliberately release misinformation to annoy armchair experts who think they know better. Rolling Eyes

Which part of the article do you find dishonest?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Absolute circus:

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