Toowoomba Railway Station

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Under-utilised rail infrastructure is not just a kiwi thing. Toowoomba Railway Station has just two trains a week which take 4 hours 25 minutes to cover the 127km to Brisbane - & two trains a week west to Roma and Charleville.



is it time for Queensland to rethink longer distance or semi regional rail services like Victoria has?

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  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Under-utilised rail infrastructure is not just a kiwi thing. Toowoomba Railway Station has just two trains a week which take 4 hours 25 minutes to cover the 127km to Brisbane - & two trains a week west to Roma and Charleville.



is it time for Queensland to rethink longer distance or semi regional rail services like Victoria has?
bevans
The issue is Vic is flat,
- 180 km from Vic is a 2-3 h train ride.
- 180 km from Brisbane over the range is 4-5 h

I agree it could and should be better, but the challenge is still there and it wasn't that long agao coal exports kicked alot of stuff off the Range crossing, however times have since changed.

Also, with the inland coming, decision time is also coming. The NG over the range will no doubt be closed as its SG cousin will allow heavier, faster and longer trains and provides a service to near most of the freight generating locations on the SW system. It will be interesting to see if the SW line or rather anything south of Toowoomba remains open and if so who will pay.

Will the govt then fund a SG Pax operation?

SG is a bit more complex as it goes to near Rosewood (terminus of suburban going west) then heads SW to the interstate then comes into Brisbane via the Southern line, which should be still alot faster than now, but for which we know the southern line is hopeless in its design and why the XPT has been kicked out apart from early in the morning so as not to cause issues with peak flow rail traffic. Perhaps post CRR this will be less of an issue.

If the govt was to fund a SG service, will the govt spend the money to run SG into Toowoomba station? Personally I think no, rather out of town terminus beside the main line with a bus loop feeding it, ie Nth Gympie. Toowoomba station is in the centre of town and has numerous LX, this would be one way to resolve this.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: In exile
Under-utilised rail infrastructure is not just a kiwi thing. Toowoomba Railway Station has just two trains a week which take 4 hours 25 minutes to cover the 127km to Brisbane - & two trains a week west to Roma and Charleville.

is it time for Queensland to rethink longer distance or semi regional rail services like Victoria has?
bevans
Each of those trains is the same train, ie Brisbane - Charleville and return. A total of 4 "visits" to Toowoomba per week.

A more frequent "commuter" service between Toowoomba and Brisbane is often talked about. It would require a more modern and friendly route to be constructed. With construction costs currently soaring and construction companies failing, I can't see it happening in my lifetime. But then the 2032 Olympics might see it happen by then, but will I still be alive? Wink

https://investment.infrastructure.gov.au/projects/ProjectDetails.aspx?Project_id=097134-17QLD-NRP
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/projects/toowoomba-to-brisbane-passenger-rail-strategic-business-case
https://www.railexpress.com.au/councils-brisbane-toowoomba-rail/
http://www.toowoombachamber.com.au/passenger-rail/
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Will I still be alive?
Graham4405
You better be, need some commonsense in this group to balance Don and Myrtone.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Not a bad point raised by bevans and co on services. How long would it take to travel from Toowoomba to Brisbane on a bus assuming there are buses for days when the train is not running ?
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Not a bad point raised by bevans and co on services. How long would it take to travel from Toowoomba to Brisbane on a bus assuming there are buses for days when the train is not running ?
freightgate
I spent quite a bit of time in Toowoomba in my younger days, and did the Brisbane-Toowoomba trip more times than I can count, both by coach and on the Westlander. By bus with McCafferty's (remember them?) was about 2.1 hours if you went via Gatton and Ipswich, or about 1H45ish if you were on a limited stops service.

When McCafferty's were running it, there was a bus about every 90 minutes, though now Greyhound have taken over, there seems to be a bit more competition with Murrays Coaches also serving that corridor for about 9 services a day between the two operators.

Really, I can't see a train getting from Toowoomba-Brisbane much, if any, faster than the current busses unless you get a lot of green lights in the Brisbane Suburban Area, and one heck of a good new alignment down the range. The current corridor is barely suitable for freighters, yet alone regional passenger services.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Even way back in 1964, apart from trains running beyond Toowoomba, virtually all passengers wanting to get to that city would use a train to Helidon and change to a bus to get to their destination. There was (I think) just one passenger train a day which ran to and terminated at Toowoomba. So at least 60 years ago QR had realised the alignment up the range made a passenger journey far too slow.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: In exile
Will I still be alive?
You better be, need some commonsense in this group to balance Don and Myrtone.
RTT_Rules
I'll be 80 in 2032, no guarantees!
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

In the very early days of Inland Rail (before it even had the  Inland Rail name), I remember reading of QR/Qld Gov considering a faster commuter rail service to Toowoomba combined with the Inland Rail project. It seemed a long way off and QLD certainly wasn't going to go alone, so it was indefinitely postponed. Now that Inland Rail is getting serious, I haven't heard that the state gov has been making representations to be involved.

For those more knowledgable of the locale, how would a NG express commuter service work with coming out of Brisbane on the current route to Rosewood, then via a connection to the new alignment for a quick run up the range, hang a right at Gowrie, then up into Toowoomba? Said trains would have to be powerful to allow ascent at max track speed. I don't know what the design speed is but the curves seem generous.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Will I still be alive?
You better be, need some commonsense in this group to balance Don and Myrtone.
I'll be 80 in 2032, no guarantees!
Graham4405

My dad (Vinelander Snr) turned 92 on the 2nd. He's still driving the Fairlane, although for shopping trips he drives the Hyundai. He plays table tennis three times a week. Once with other seniors at their club room and twice a week at Irymple where he competes in open competition.

At 10:35 as I write this, he will be at tap dancing classes.

I think you have a chance Graham. Smile

Mike.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Will I still be alive?
You better be, need some commonsense in this group to balance Don and Myrtone.
I'll be 80 in 2032, no guarantees!
Graham4405
Valvegear is still here annoying us, if he can you can.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
In the very early days of Inland Rail (before it even had the  Inland Rail name), I remember reading of QR/Qld Gov considering a faster commuter rail service to Toowoomba combined with the Inland Rail project. It seemed a long way off and QLD certainly wasn't going to go alone, so it was indefinitely postponed. Now that Inland Rail is getting serious, I haven't heard that the state gov has been making representations to be involved.

For those more knowledgable of the locale, how would a NG express commuter service work with coming out of Brisbane on the current route to Rosewood, then via a connection to the new alignment for a quick run up the range, hang a right at Gowrie, then up into Toowoomba? Said trains would have to be powerful to allow ascent at max track speed. I don't know what the design speed is but the curves seem generous.
Lockspike
I forgot something in my previois post,

https://inlandrail.artc.com.au/where-we-go/projects/calvert-to-kagaru/

The Gowrie to Calvert section of Inland Rail includes constructing a new track through the Toowoomba and Lockyer Valley region in Queensland and building a vast freight tunnel.
The new dual gauge track will run from Gowrie, north-west of Toowoomba to Calvert, east of Toowoomba,


Calvert is 9km west of Rosewood on the existing line on excellent alignment and the junction where the inland will head SE towards the Interstate.

The inland track alignment up the range isn't straight and I remember reading that they factored in the trains heading up the hill would run slower due to the grade so no need for straight (ie not practical and this was their public excuse for not doing it), however it will be far straighter than whats there now so 2h Brisbane to Toowoomba should be realistic.

The CTT design would be logical option to procure as existing design, has some grunt and speed. Probably no need for double ended locos as the train length will be 6 cars max.

If the train can average 70km/h from Rosewood to Gowrie, then sub 2h is easily on the cards. Roma Street - Rosewood (stopping assume Toowong, Ips, Rosewood) express is 50-55min.

Service would likely follow something similar to Gympie. Commuter down the hill in the AM, quick service, head up and back for lunch and then back for the commuter traffic in PM. If they use the CTT design they just need to buy one loco and 5-6 cars and then rotate through the CTT fleet for spares.
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

In the very early days of Inland Rail (before it even had the  Inland Rail name), I remember reading of QR/Qld Gov considering a faster commuter rail service to Toowoomba combined with the Inland Rail project. It seemed a long way off and QLD certainly wasn't going to go alone, so it was indefinitely postponed. Now that Inland Rail is getting serious, I haven't heard that the state gov has been making representations to be involved.

For those more knowledgable of the locale, how would a NG express commuter service work with coming out of Brisbane on the current route to Rosewood, then via a connection to the new alignment for a quick run up the range, hang a right at Gowrie, then up into Toowoomba? Said trains would have to be powerful to allow ascent at max track speed. I don't know what the design speed is but the curves seem generous.
I forgot something in my previois post,

https://inlandrail.artc.com.au/where-we-go/projects/calvert-to-kagaru/

The Gowrie to Calvert section of Inland Rail includes constructing a new track through the Toowoomba and Lockyer Valley region in Queensland and building a vast freight tunnel.
The new dual gauge track will run from Gowrie, north-west of Toowoomba to Calvert, east of Toowoomba,


Calvert is 9km west of Rosewood on the existing line on excellent alignment and the junction where the inland will head SE towards the Interstate.

The inland track alignment up the range isn't straight and I remember reading that they factored in the trains heading up the hill would run slower due to the grade so no need for straight (ie not practical and this was their public excuse for not doing it), however it will be far straighter than whats there now so 2h Brisbane to Toowoomba should be realistic.

The CTT design would be logical option to procure as existing design, has some grunt and speed. Probably no need for double ended locos as the train length will be 6 cars max.

If the train can average 70km/h from Rosewood to Gowrie, then sub 2h is easily on the cards. Roma Street - Rosewood (stopping assume Toowong, Ips, Rosewood) express is 50-55min.

Service would likely follow something similar to Gympie. Commuter down the hill in the AM, quick service, head up and back for lunch and then back for the commuter traffic in PM. If they use the CTT design they just need to buy one loco and 5-6 cars and then rotate through the CTT fleet for spares.
RTT_Rules
I'd like to find a detailed horizontal alignment. My guess is that the design speed is 130km/h, or more. When I say 'design speed', I'm talking about the theoretical maximum speed, not the speed that trains may actually run.

I was envisaging NG electric pass trains racing up the range at considerably more than an average 70km/h, although I can see a problem fitting them around the goods trains due to a large speed differential.

What platform is the CTT built on, or the RTT for that matter? Is it now too old?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Rather out of town terminus beside the main line with a bus loop feeding it, ie Nth Gympie. Toowoomba station is in the centre of town and has numerous LX, this would be one way to resolve this.
RTT_Rules
Looking at where the planed Toowoomba Escarpment tunnel Is located, the Eastern end Is In the wideness, the Western end Is close to Gowrie (some distance North West of Toowoomba)

Would Queensland Transport just build a regional railway station here at Gowrie and just run shuttle buses to the centre of Toowoomba (Including major public places of Interest)

The map also shows what looks like a triangle junction at the Western end of the tunnel, so a train from Brisbane could swing a hard right (after exiting the tunnel) than wind It's way Into central Toowoomba to terminate at the Toowoomba Railway Station.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I'd like to find a detailed horizontal alignment. My guess is that the design speed is 130km/h, or more. When I say 'design speed', I'm talking about the theoretical maximum speed, not the speed that trains may actually run.

I was envisaging NG electric pass trains racing up the range at considerably more than an average 70km/h, although I can see a problem fitting them around the goods trains due to a large speed differential.

What platform is the CTT built on, or the RTT for that matter? Is it now too old?
Lockspike
You won't get 130km/h on most of the rising line up the range, it will be too curvey, but in the valley should be do able most of the way.

There will no sparking at this time. Line is designed for double stack, so higher OH is required, not impossible but for now at least a train a few times a day doesn't justify OH. With today's technology hybrid diesel battery electric which can use the OH when available and boost the battery over short section will do the job more efficently.

Basically assume no OH on the range but could be installed in the tunnels easy enough. Also Toowoomba station and yard to charge the onboard battery. The train leaving Toowoomba towards Brisbane would probably have liittle to no need for diesel before reaching the OH at Rosewood. Going the otherway, the diesel would be needed to supplement the battery headed up the hill shortly after leaving Rosewood.

CTT I would have thought would still be modern enough to reuse for a short production run train. The loco could be copy and paste DH or as posted above maybe a special one off hybrid. NSW is using hybrid's so no reason the Qld could not do the same but would need a change in traction technology from DH to DEL.

RTT design would probably be the best, if the line was sparked, but I doubt it will, thats $1B the Qld govt doesn't have.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Looking at where the planed Toowoomba Escarpment tunnel Is located, the Eastern end Is In the wideness, the Western end Is close to Gowrie (some distance North West of Toowoomba)

Would Queensland Transport just build a regional railway station here at Gowrie and just run shuttle buses to the centre of Toowoomba (Including major public places of Interest)

The map also shows what looks like a triangle junction at the Western end of the tunnel, so a train from Brisbane could swing a hard right (after exiting the tunnel) than wind It's way Into central Toowoomba to terminate at the Toowoomba Railway Station.
Nightfire
History on the North coast line would seem to indicate yes, which I indicated about copy paste Gympie North to Toowoomba North.

However maybe this time the govt will be under more pressure to operate into Toowoomba as the line to almost the station will be kept open for the coal train fleet. Certainly some rationalisation will follow and the NG line towards the range more the likely closed.

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