SAR/CR Trivia #24

 
  Guard Class 2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Elizabeth,South Australia
Are you thinking of something like Thevenard to Kevin, which changes at Penong Junction,
OR are you asking about a section of line which was Up at one point in time and then changed and became a DOWN section later in life (or vice versa)?

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  duttonbay Minister for Railways

The question was perhaps poorly worded. I wrote
"We are looking for a stretch of line where up became down, and vice-versa"
when perhaps it could have read "a section of line". I meant a line between two stations.
  xdford Chief Train Controller

Broken Hill to Pt Pirie - Trains such as the IP were travelling UP to Peterborough then DOWN to Broken Hill as 256 (up) 257 (down) although nothing changed except the driver, fireman and guard. Vice versa was 456/457. AFAIR 500/501 and 700/701 from BH were also through trains that changed from UP to DOWN simply by passing through Peterborough yard

Trevor
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Hmm. I can't argue with that. Every direction from Peterborough was down except that to Terowie. However I am looking for a section of track, between two adjacent stations, where a train heading from A to B was down one day, and up the next.
  xdford Chief Train Controller

Hmm. I can't argue with that. Every direction from Peterborough was down except that to Terowie. However I am looking for a section of track, between two adjacent stations, where a train heading from A to B was down one day, and up the next.
duttonbay

Thinking about it, Snowtown to Brinkworth?  Before the BG from Snowtown to Adelaide closed (prior to SG) the direction of Snowtown to Brinkworth would have been DOWN as it pointed in the direction ultimately to Gladstone. The next day, it would have become the UP line for the BG from Wallaroo to Adelaide with the turning of the loco and brake at Brinkworth and Balaklava as well?

Trevor
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Thinking about it, Snowtown to Brinkworth?  Before the BG from Snowtown to Adelaide closed (prior to SG) the direction of Snowtown to Brinkworth would have been DOWN as it pointed in the direction ultimately to Gladstone. The next day, it would have become the UP line for the BG from Wallaroo to Adelaide with the turning of the loco and brake at Brinkworth and Balaklava as well?
"xdford"

That's not the section I have in mind, and I cannot verify that the direction of the section between Brinkworth and Snowtown would have changed. In any case, your answer does not meet my hint that we are looking for "a section of track, between two adjacent stations" as Condowie existed between the two stations you are suggesting.
  xdford Chief Train Controller

That's not the section I have in mind, and I cannot verify that the direction of the section between Brinkworth and Snowtown would have changed. In any case, your answer does not meet my hint that we are looking for "a section of . You track, between two adjacent stations" as Condowie existed between the two stations you are suggesting.
duttonbay

I have travelled that section of line a few times and I don't remember a station at Condowie. It was probably a stopping point ala Nurragi on the Milang line.

You appear to me to be implying that a double section of track had the direction of track changed? Certainly it would not be where right hand running has been involved unlike here in Victoria on bidirectional track, often to Melton and points beyond. Perhaps the track around Osborne when the line was cut at Osborne, and outbound trains were down at the ICI place and the line became up when  Osborne Junction was closed?

Trevor
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Mt Gambier/Wandilo for Glencoe trains
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Bumbubga to Lochiel?
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Not around Osborne, Mt Gambier/Wandilo, or the Lochiel line.  This was a section of line where a train travelling from A to B was a down train from opening up until a particular point in time, from whence a train travelling that same route from A to B was now designated as an up train.
  xdford Chief Train Controller

Not around Osborne, Mt Gambier/Wandilo, or the Lochiel line. This was a section of line where a train travelling from A to B was a down train from opening up until a particular point in time, from whence a train travelling that same route from A to B was now designated as an up train.
duttonbay

Two adjoining stations  Wolsely and Serviceton.  The loco transfer was moved from Serviceton to Wolsely prior to through running so what was DOWN from Adelaide became UP to Melbourne.

When the Standard Gauge opened to Adelaide, as Adelaide became the focus of operation, trains WEST of Peterborough (so Peterborough to Yunta for example) instead of being DOWN became UP. I am still sticking by the Snowtown Brinkworth scenario changing from DOWN TO UP and vice versa of course.

I would presume anything going to the Passenger Terminal at Keswick would be considered UP from the North Lines so from Mile End Junction to Keswick would be another possibility.

But I must admit I am starting to run out of other possibilities if they are not the ones that Dutton is thinking of.

Trevor
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

The line between two adjoining stations had up and down reversed, but no other sections adjacent to this one had the direction reversed.

That extra clue rules out Yunta-Peterborough/  Wolseley-Serviceton might qualify - I don't recall loco changeovers being swapped, but there's lots I don't recall these days! -- but it's not the section I was thinking of.  

Take another clue: the line is/was narrow gauge.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Yeelana - Mt Hope or Kapinnie?    It is a trailing junction to the main line.   Trains would leave in an up direction, then become a down train on the branch.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

No. Trains on the section were down up until a certain point in time, and from then on those travelling in the same direction along the line were up trains.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Was this a one off event?
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

It was a single event which caused this change of direction from then on. The event was related to lines opening and closing.
  xdford Chief Train Controller

The line between two adjoining stations had up and down reversed, but no other sections adjacent to this one had the direction reversed.

That extra clue rules out Yunta-Peterborough/ Wolseley-Serviceton might qualify - I don't recall loco changeovers being swapped, but there's lots I don't recall these days! -- but it's not the section I was thinking of.

Take another clue: the line is/was narrow gauge.
duttonbay

Wolseley was used for a short time as a changeover place for locos AFAIK as ANR wanted to run some trains right through to Mt Gambier with extra loading so it would have suited. With the tristate agreement as it became, the period I believe was relatively short circa 1982/ 83 although there were a few trial run throughs notably 941 which ran quite a few trials in mid 1982 here in Victoria.

Terowie to Peterborough I would have thought would have been UP as NG then when the Broad opened became a DOWN line as Broad Gauge in one day notably January 10 71. The answer is probably blindingly obvious but as it is I cannot see much else being on offer!

Cheers

Trevor
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
The line between Minnipa and Wudinna?
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
The line from the gypsum works at Kevin to the junction of the original line to Penong (Kowalka?) fits this description.

Until the more northerly original line closed trains to Kevin from the junction were down, after it closed trains from Kevin to the (old) junction became down.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Hooray. We have a winner. The line between Kevin and Kowulka was a dead-end branch off the original Penong line, so it was down to Kevin. When the direct line to Kevin was opened, the line from Kevin to Kowulka became the down direction.  Kowulka only survived a few months before being closed, but that stretch of line reversed its up/down orientation when the direct line opened.

Over to kipioneer.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
I'm sure I've asked this before but some years ago.

I'll make it a double barreled question:   (a) what was the most westerly station of the SAR? and (b) what was the most easterly point of the Commonwealth Railways?

Older participants should know this; it may stump younger members.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
I'm sure I've asked this before but some years ago.

I'll make it a double barreled question:   (a) what was the most westerly station of the SAR? and (b) what was the most easterly point of the Commonwealth Railways?

Older participants should know this; it may stump younger members.
"kipioneer"


(a) Most Westerly SAR = Penong
(b) Most Easterly CR = Hawker/Leigh Creek
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

I agree with Pressman with Penong, but I think the most easterly point of the CR would have been the ACT/NSW border at Queanbeyan.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
I agree with Pressman with Penong, but I think the most easterly point of the CR would have been the ACT/NSW border at Queanbeyan.
"duttonbay"

mmmm Yes I was thinking state wide, forgetting about that little stretch in the ACT
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
Duttonbay is half right!

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