Northern Sydney Freight Corridor (NSFC)

 
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
It appears that the first bit of NSFC may be the resignalling of Suphide Junction (which may include work for the new station at Glandale).

Currently SJ has a Down Refuge of a useless 400m or so.

Currently SJ has an Up Refuge of an also somewhat useless 900m or so.

Hopefully the resignalled SJ will be remodelled to provide Refuge Loop(s) of 1500m to 1800m.

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  Tonymercury Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Botany NSW
(which may include work for the new station at Glandale).
"awsgc24"



Do you mean Glendale?
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
It appears that the first bit of NSFC may be the resignalling of Suphide Junction (which may include work for the new station at Glandale).

Currently SJ has a Down Refuge of a useless 400m or so.

Currently SJ has an Up Refuge of an also somewhat useless 900m or so.

Hopefully the resignalled SJ will be remodelled to provide Refuge Loop(s) of 1500m to 1800m.
"awsgc24"


I doubt the NSFC program is into any construction yet. I say that because one significant tender only closed in April for...
"An appraisal detailing the economic and financial viability of the proposed enhancements to the rail corridor for both freight and passenger train operation, for the Northern Sydney Freight Corridor"

To me that indicates you have a bit of ground to cover before moving any  Wink
  Athol Chief Train Controller

Location: Within sight of the Newcastle St bridge over the Main North, Cardiff NSW
It appears that the first bit of NSFC may be the resignalling of Suphide Junction (which may include work for the new station at Glandale).
"awsgc24"

Is this guessing or do you have information about this re-signalling?
  perwaynut Deputy Commissioner

Location: In the Land of the Mighty Hawks, and our favourite footy President Jeff
It appears that the first bit of NSFC may be the resignalling of Suphide Junction (which may include work for the new station at Glandale).
"awsgc24"

Is this guessing or do you have information about this re-signalling?
"Athol"


Here's my tip for resignalling Sulphide. Rip the whole lot out and just put one turnout in for the Cardiff Workshops. Maybe add a maintenance siding.

I don't think you would worry about having refuges at Sulphide when Broadmeadow is so close. Better off further south. And even then, I was speaking to one of the guys who does strategic planning for ARTC and the big problem with the Short North was what to do with freighters when they got to North Strathfield with no path on the single line.
  Athol Chief Train Controller

Location: Within sight of the Newcastle St bridge over the Main North, Cardiff NSW
Here's my tip for resignalling Sulphide. Rip the whole lot out and just put one turnout in for the Cardiff Workshops. Maybe add a maintenance siding.
"perwaynut"

So the Cardiff yard would be shut down and the silo would be cut off so that it couldn't receive grain by rail any more?
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

Here's my tip for resignalling Sulphide. Rip the whole lot out and just put one turnout in for the Cardiff Workshops. Maybe add a maintenance siding.

"perwaynut"


By all means have a ruthless option, however a crossover to reach the Up Main from the workshop would have some value. Don't be over ruthless.

1800m long refuges are needed somewhere. Build them where they are cheap to build.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I'd really like to see the signalling changed on the up approaching Sulphide Jct , some mug decided to place a building in the way so have to tread wearily because signal sighting is poor .

If they are really serious about trains heading north as in towards Maitland the route has to totally avoid Broadmeadow /Iso Jct etc .
If they are really serious about it .
  Stepto Assistant Commissioner

If they are really serious about it .
"BDA"


"They" are! It's called the Inland Rail line from Melb to Bris. Don't know if I will see it in my life though!
  Athol Chief Train Controller

Location: Within sight of the Newcastle St bridge over the Main North, Cardiff NSW
If they are really serious about trains heading north as in towards Maitland the route has to totally avoid Broadmeadow /Iso Jct etc .
"BDA"

There has been a proposal for a freight bypass around Newcastle, branching off at Fassifern and rejoining the line at Hexham, running west of Lake Macquarie.  It's been promoted numerous times, but nothing has actually happened.

The latest is that, once the Hunter Expressway (F3 to Branxton link road) is built, there is a plan to build an intermodal terminal at Buchanan, near the freeway interchange.  The railway line to service it would effectively be the northern half of the bypass.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
That link would make a huge difference but I think it needs to meet or jump over the main and coal roads further west than Hexham and keep heading north .

Can you imagine how much time you could carve out of the Fassifern to Dungog section if you weren't going east to turn west and missed all the congestion and DMU/XPT BS around Broadmeadow and Islington Jct .
If the line continued up to around Dungog you bypass all the City Rail services and potentially much shorter journey times .

Done properly this would make the IR proposed journeys look poor by comparison .
  perwaynut Deputy Commissioner

Location: In the Land of the Mighty Hawks, and our favourite footy President Jeff
Here's my tip for resignalling Sulphide. Rip the whole lot out and just put one turnout in for the Cardiff Workshops. Maybe add a maintenance siding.
"perwaynut"

So the Cardiff yard would be shut down and the silo would be cut off so that it couldn't receive grain by rail any more?
"Athol"


If the silo is stil being used, by all means keep the connection. Cardiff Yard??
  perwaynut Deputy Commissioner

Location: In the Land of the Mighty Hawks, and our favourite footy President Jeff

Here's my tip for resignalling Sulphide. Rip the whole lot out and just put one turnout in for the Cardiff Workshops. Maybe add a maintenance siding.

"perwaynut"


By all means have a ruthless option, however a crossover to reach the Up Main from the workshop would have some value. Don't be over ruthless.

1800m long refuges are needed somewhere. Build them where they are cheap to build.
"awsgc24"


I have talkied to a guy from ARTC about what issues they have with Short North, as well as numerous people within RailCorp about the freight issues. It seems to me that once a freighter is travelling it can progress at about the same pace as an all stopper, probably even faster, so there is really no need to refuge, and if anything putting a freighter away may make it worse as you have lost that path and need to wait for another. The major issues seemed to me were when freighters arrived at Islington and didn't have a path, you needed to put them somewhere to wait. And the other thing was once the freighter is on its way south, you need to have a path available over the Flemington single line, or once again you have to have the freighter wait, but now it is holding up CityRail services.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

Here's my tip for resignalling Sulphide. Rip the whole lot out and just put one turnout in for the Cardiff Workshops. Maybe add a maintenance siding.

"perwaynut"


By all means have a ruthless option, however a crossover to reach the Up Main from the workshop would have some value. Don't be over ruthless.

1800m long refuges are needed somewhere. Build them where they are cheap to build.
"awsgc24"


I have talkied to a guy from ARTC about what issues they have with Short North, as well as numerous people within RailCorp about the freight issues. It seems to me that once a freighter is travelling it can progress at about the same pace as an all stopper, probably even faster, so there is really no need to refuge, and if anything putting a freighter away may make it worse as you have lost that path and need to wait for another. The major issues seemed to me were when freighters arrived at Islington and didn't have a path, you needed to put them somewhere to wait. And the other thing was once the freighter is on its way south, you need to have a path available over the Flemington single line, or once again you have to have the freighter wait, but now it is holding up CityRail services.
"perwaynut"


You still need some long 1800m reguges to cover a range or issues such as train failures and track possessions.

Remember the basic refuge at Wyong (Yass, Harden, Cootamundra North) where a train refuges on the main line and the double line is reduced to a section of single track.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Your ARTC contact doesn't have a clue - about express freight running times anyway . A superfreighter is more than a match for an all stopping pass on the short north with Cowan Bank being the exception . They have to be powered to climb 1 in 40 grades so when in roller coaster country aren't short of power - provided they are not being blocked .

Mind you RC in their lunacy have dropped the speed boards for loco hauled anything - stopping distances were the excuse and a cover all 4500T coal train was their benchmark - so running times are slower than ever - on newish concrete sleepers/60 Kg rail ...
Is it a coincidence or doesn't RC run loco hauled passenger trains any more ? RC considers a single consist IP to be the same as that 4500T coalie which is why they insist on IP's being braked in the same places and at the same low speeds in the Blue Mountains . Nut cases or what ?
And lets not forget the 35 Km/h speed on the down approaching Adamstown that was magically lifted because the natives saw red over the level crossing blockages . How political pressure altered the stopping distances who knows , morons .
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
...1800m long refuges are needed somewhere. Build them where they are cheap to build.
"awsgc24"


Such as Woy Woy, Wyong and somewhere between Morisset and Awaba.
  perwaynut Deputy Commissioner

Location: In the Land of the Mighty Hawks, and our favourite footy President Jeff
Your ARTC contact doesn't have a clue - about express freight running times anyway . A superfreighter is more than a match for an all stopping pass on the short north with Cowan Bank being the exception . They have to be powered to climb 1 in 40 grades so when in roller coaster country aren't short of power - provided they are not being blocked.
"BDA"


Somehow I'm pretty sure he has a clue, and if you look back at my post you will see that you have said pretty much what I did. Anyhow, whoever you get it from, freighters will not slow down passenger trains if they are allowed to run, exception being Cowan Bank in the up.

Mind you RC in their lunacy have dropped the speed boards for loco hauled anything - stopping distances were the excuse and a cover all 4500T coal train was their benchmark - so running times are slower than ever - on newish concrete sleepers/60 Kg rail ...
Is it a coincidence or doesn't RC run loco hauled passenger trains any more ? RC considers a single consist IP to be the same as that 4500T coalie which is why they insist on IP's being braked in the same places and at the same low speeds in the Blue Mountains . Nut cases or what ?
And lets not forget the 35 Km/h speed on the down approaching Adamstown that was magically lifted because the natives saw red over the level crossing blockages . How political pressure altered the stopping distances who knows , morons .
"BDA"


The view of RailCorp to freight is the key to getting the Short North working well. Most of the people I knew working for RailCorp never thought about freight, and if they did think about it is was as a pain in the rear end.

Sad. With a few good decisions and a committment to passenger and freight sharing the Short North, it could run pretty well.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Nothing recent on the TIDC site.

Wonder for how long the feds $840m is on the table?
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Perwaynut I don't need to be told about it because I do it for a living .
DMU's are not fast off the mark and their EMU cousins are equally slow when their station stops are close together .
To follow a DMU from Telarah to Islington Jct (round the corner from Broadmeadow) means a snail pace run at ~ 40km/h over mostly 115 K line . It doesn't get a lot better following an EMU north from Gosford to Wyong .
  perwaynut Deputy Commissioner

Location: In the Land of the Mighty Hawks, and our favourite footy President Jeff
Perwaynut I don't need to be told about it because I do it for a living .
DMU's are not fast off the mark and their EMU cousins are equally slow when their station stops are close together .
To follow a DMU from Telarah to Islington Jct (round the corner from Broadmeadow) means a snail pace run at ~ 40km/h over mostly 115 K line . It doesn't get a lot better following an EMU north from Gosford to Wyong .
"BDA"


BDA. There is no need to get personal if you have different experiences or information to others. Simply state your case and sit down. Some people even call it civil conversation.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
All I am saying is that I see it with my own eyes , no offense intended .

Cheers .
  cascade39 Junior Train Controller

Transport Infrastructure Development Corporation
AUDIT OPINION
The audit of the Corporation’s financial report for the year ended 30 June 2009 resulted in an unqualified Independent Auditor’s Report.
Page 142.........

Northern Sydney Rail Freight Corridor (NSRF)

The NSRF program is an initiative of the Commonwealth Government to remove operational impediments to rail freight traffic between North Strathfield and Broadmeadow at Newcastle. The Corporation received $15.0 million from the Commonwealth in 2008-09 to commence feasibility studies. At 30 June 2009, the Corporation had spent $3.2 million.

Page 146 _____ Auditor-General’s Report to Parliament 2009 Volume Ten  ( focusing on Transport, Planning and Industry )
http://www.audit.nsw.gov.au/publications/reports/financial/2009/vol10/contents.htm
  Athol Chief Train Controller

Location: Within sight of the Newcastle St bridge over the Main North, Cardiff NSW
I finally found some detail of what's intended to be done for the 1st and 2nd stages of the NFSL.  On page 54 of working paper 12 of the Inland Railway study, they describe the plans for the NFSL:

Stage 1 is expected to provide for the North Strathfield dive (i.e. an underpass to take freight tracks under major passenger tracks), extra track between Epping and Hornsby, two refuges near Gosford and some extra signalling. In addition, it would provide four freight paths per hour 20 hours per day, but with only two reliable freight paths per hour (i.e. 30 per day compared with the present 24, of which 11 are used). This stage of works is estimated to be operational by 2016. The Northern Sydney Freight Corridor Program team has advised it would have adequate freight capacity until around 2020 (depending on the ramp up period).


A ‘full corridor’ option is also being considered by the Government as Stage 2 of the Northern Sydney Freight Corridor works, comprising developments such as four tracks north to Berowra, a third track on the Cowan bank, refuges north of there and re-signalling.


http://www.artc.com.au/library/WP12%20FINAL%202%20271109%20less%20exec%20sum.pdf

The reason it comes up in the Inland Railway study is that they are considering other works that might be avoided or deferred if the IR goes ahead, which could improve the cost effectiveness of the IR.
  drwaddles In need of a breath mint

Location: Newcastle
http://www.tidc.nsw.gov.au/Documents/2901_industry2009.pdf
TIDC industry briefing – p.37-41 contains some info on the NSFC proposal

I haven’t been following this thread closely so apologies if this has already been covered but the concept described in the above document seems extremely scaled down from what I had expected/hoped for. The only infrastructure UP of Hornsby is a third track from Epping to Pennant Hills and a grade-separation at North Strathfield.

I would have thought that quadding from Concord West to West Ryde, and – at minimum – tripling from Epping to Hornsby (if not quadding to at least Beecroft) would be part of the project. I hope this is only a first stage and would hate to see the opportunity missed to do it properly the first time.
  Rails Chief Commissioner

It is a pity they are not taking the extra effort in stage 1 to add quad tracks from Epping to to meet up at Thornleigh. I assume the money is not there. The big issue is going to be Pennant Hills station and surely the smart thing to do would be (assuming it can fit) to build the space for quad tracks. Its not something you would want to have to do twice!

I guess it really comes down to what they want to do long term along this path. I saw early documentation with the whole thing quadded which I thought was to provide an extra track for interurbans to separate them from the locals. Maybe that is not their plan? Really the big issue is the part of the corridor they are working on, Epping to Thornleigh. Other than Pennant Hills it looks like quad tracks should fit easily.

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