RRL Project - West Werribee / Southern Cross

 
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

1300  Dn Warrnambool loco hauled with 2 stops is scheduled for 52 minutes to Geelong including a realistic margin .  V/Locity stopping Footscray, Werribee and then SAS can do Geelong in 60 minutes easily, stopping Footscray, Lara, North Geelong takes 55 minutes .

With new route whilst it is 12kms longer times will be similar because average speeds will be much higher via new route .  Expect  loco hauled Warrnambool 115kmh to Geelong with a Footscray stop around 60 minutes,  V/Locity  stop Fts, Sun, Tnt, Wyn, Lra, Nth Glg to take 55 mins  and  Fts, Sun, Tnt then SAS to Glg to take 60 minutes .

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  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
1300  Dn Warrnambool loco hauled with 2 stops is scheduled for 52 minutes to Geelong including a realistic margin .  V/Locity stopping Footscray, Werribee and then SAS can do Geelong in 60 minutes easily, stopping Footscray, Lara, North Geelong takes 55 minutes .

With new route whilst it is 12kms longer times will be similar because average speeds will be much higher via new route .  Expect  loco hauled Warrnambool 115kmh to Geelong with a Footscray stop around 60 minutes,  V/Locity  stop Fts, Sun, Tnt, Wyn, Lra, Nth Glg to take 55 mins  and  Fts, Sun, Tnt then SAS to Glg to take 60 minutes .
kuldalai
Can you translate this to full English, please?
I do not understand most of what you are saying Confused
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
1300  Dn Warrnambool loco hauled with 2 stops is scheduled for 52 minutes to Geelong including a realistic margin .  V/Locity stopping Footscray, Werribee and then SAS can do Geelong in 60 minutes easily, stopping Footscray, Lara, North Geelong takes 55 minutes .

With new route whilst it is 12kms longer times will be similar because average speeds will be much higher via new route .  Expect  loco hauled Warrnambool 115kmh to Geelong with a Footscray stop around 60 minutes,  V/Locity  stop Fts, Sun, Tnt, Wyn, Lra, Nth Glg to take 55 mins  and  Fts, Sun, Tnt then SAS to Glg to take 60 minutes .
kuldalai
I would have thought the SAS trains would be stopping at both Wyndham Vale and Tarneit?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Can you translate this to full English, please?
I do not understand most of what you are saying Confused
xxxxlbear
Stopping pattern A   Stops  Footscray, Sunshine, Tarneit, Wyndamvale, Lara, North Geelong then SAS to Waurn Ponds . Allow 55 mins to Geelong.
Stopping pattern B .  Stops Footscray, Sunshine, Tarneit then SAS to South Geelong.  Allow 60 minutes to Geelong.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

I would have thought the SAS trains would be stopping at both Wyndham Vale and Tarneit?
railblogger
SAS  Tarneit to South Geelong is :  Footscray, Sunshine, Tarneit, Wyndamvale, Little River, Lara, Corio, North Shore, North Geelong, Geelong and South Geelong .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Can you translate this to full English, please?
I do not understand most of what you are saying Confused
xxxxlbear
See main post  SAS  stopping all stations
  SamTheMan79 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Geelong
Stopping pattern A   Stops  Footscray, Sunshine, Tarneit, Wyndamvale, Lara, North Geelong then SAS to Waurn Ponds . Allow 55 mins to Geelong.
Stopping pattern B .  Stops Footscray, Sunshine, Tarneit then SAS to South Geelong.  Allow 60 minutes to Geelong.
kuldalai
Any idea of when PTV will release the new timetable kuldalai?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Any idea of when PTV will release the new timetable kuldalai?
SamTheMan79
Aren't they normally released a few weeks prior to the change?
  Tony M. Locomotive Fireman

Way back in the 1990's when I was quite young, I used to commute to Geelong, to some extent I could keep my own hours, so long as I was on the job 38 hours a week. I often caught the WCR train that left Spencer Street Station circa 8.40 am, and got to Geelong station in about 52 minutes

I must have got that train 200 times. It always hauled by an S class or B class (oldies will remember them) in snappy WCR electric blue with white and yellow highlights.
Bogong
I used to travel from Geelong to Melbourne some mornings in the 90s (back when they'd announce at Geelong Station that if you wanted to catch the train from North Shore to Ballarat let them know and they'd get a taxi to take you to North Shore in time to catch it), and where possible I'd try to catch the 12.30 West Coast back to Geelong, as it usually did the trip in just over 50 minutes.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Aren't they normally released a few weeks prior to the change?
railblogger
PTV are keeping full details very close to their chest as a big tt change overall .  No doubt will be released about 2 weeks in advance of rumoured 20/04/15  change date .
  gomer Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
Liberal timetables already with roster people. Speculation that Labor ministers may prefer their own, which could push opening date back.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Liberal timetables already with roster people. Speculation that Labor ministers may prefer their own, which could push opening date back.
gomer
You mean the railways are still a plaything of the politicians? What a shock...
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Liberal timetables already with roster people. Speculation that Labor ministers may prefer their own, which could push opening date back.
gomer
The reality is that it is PTV  timetable approved by a Liberal Minister .  Huge TT change involving opening of RRL  VLP and Metro big changes .  Many pluses but always a few minuses especially in the Metro area as PTV tries to squeeze the last available capacity out of the existing infrastructure .

New Government might posture re some of the minuses if there are some, but little they can do about it in reality .

Finally RRL was completed six months ago and it would be criminal to further delay its opening and deny Metro the opportunity to provide improved Peak period services on the Northern Group .
  gomer Train Controller

Location: Melbourne
A damning endightment on successive State Governments and V/Line that such a valuable outer suburban link line used by a reasonable volume of freight trains is maintained to such a goat track standard .

In reality  Victoria & ARTC should be converting the bg line to dual gauge for the full distance between Albion and Jacana and restoring the track to Class- 2 so that the maximum value is obtained from the two tracks through this section .
kuldalai
The line speed in the ninety's was i think 80k for goods and 90k for pass and now it is only 50k's with two 20k restrictions at the junction of the duel gauge. Also at the turn of the century the 1530 Seymour was two sprinters with one detaching at Donnybrook and returning via Albion to keep pass crews qualified but in the end metro just put it down the straight unless the driver requested it otherwise.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I used to travel from Geelong to Melbourne some mornings in the 90s (back when they'd announce at Geelong Station that if you wanted to catch the train from North Shore to Ballarat let them know and they'd get a taxi to take you to North Shore in time to catch it), and where possible I'd try to catch the 12.30 West Coast back to Geelong, as it usually did the trip in just over 50 minutes.
Tony M.
A sprinter was once timtabled to do Melb to Geelong In 46 minutes pre RFR (3 stops I think)

45 minutes was the RFR Flagship service promise (express running between North Melb and North Geelong)

I wonder If a flagship service will return, when adequate rolling stock becomes available ?
  Bullucked Assistant Commissioner

On the Saturday's when it ran - a timetabled 60 min on the Down, 55 min on the Up.

In 1938 the Geelong Flyer with the A2 took 57 min on the Down, 55 min on the Up.
Carnot
Wouldn't the extra time taken now be associated with the large number of sparks the Geelongs need to mingle with. In the old days I don't reckon (haven't checked of course) that there were sparks every ten minutes from Newport.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Wouldn't the extra time taken now be associated with the large number of sparks the Geelongs need to mingle with. In the old days I don't reckon (haven't checked of course) that there were sparks every ten minutes from Newport.
Bullucked
The main thing is loco hauled were 115kmh  Newport South - North Geelong in 1937  and still the same today .  Biggest impact though today is  -  In 1937  there were no sparks beyond Champion Rd  Newport where the Altona line left the Geelong Line, since early 1980's Geelongs  competing with  SAS  sparks between Newport South and Werribee .  This has dramatic effect on average speed for country trains .
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
With regards to the RRL, is there any work left that needs to be done? Or are we just waiting for the right political environment for it to open...
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
They might need to do driver training but other than that I believe it's all complete.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
With regards to the RRL, is there any work left that needs to be done? Or are we just waiting for the right political environment for it to open...
don_dunstan

Completed...just driver training now as not all drivers are qualified to run on the track until they actually drive on the track, with a pilot without pax.

The delivery of an extra VLocity set or two will also help overcome expected overcrowding as the hordes descend/ascend at the new stations.

Still on track for third week of April AFAIK.

Mike.
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Completed...just driver training now as not all drivers are qualified to run on the track until they actually drive on the track, with a pilot without pax.

The delivery of an extra VLocity set or two will also help overcome expected overcrowding as the hordes descend/ascend at the new stations.
The Vinelander

I am wondering Mike if Vline have done any passenger number modelling for the new railway stations?  How many extra people are expected to use the new stations and will the additional rollingstock be able to handle the additional patronage?
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I expect that V Line will move all available V Locities onto the RRL Geelong line. I anticipate that the only loco hauled services remaining on that line will be the Warrnambool services which will run via Newport - Werribee - Geelong etc.. That way they don't interfere with the new timetable.

This will mean cascading Vlocities away from other routes. In some cases (such as Seymour) Sprinters can be used instead. But other routes (such as Baccus Marsh) will become increasing loco hauled. At least until the next batch of V Locities arrive.
  mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking
I am wondering Mike if Vline have done any passenger number modelling for the new railway stations?  How many extra people are expected to use the new stations and will the additional rollingstock be able to handle the additional patronage?
JimYarin

I think any modelling would be largely guesswork. Sure, many who live around the new stations will have said that they will 'give it a try', but if they find themselves being jammed into an overcrowded sardine can, or waiting for the next train, they will probably get back in the car the following day and endure a slower, but more comfortable trip to the city.
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
I expect that V Line will move all available V Locities onto the RRL Geelong line. I anticipate that the only loco hauled services remaining on that line will be the Warrnambool services which will run via Newport - Werribee - Geelong etc.. That way they don't interfere with the new timetable.

This will mean cascading Vlocities away from other routes. In some cases (such as Seymour) Sprinters can be used instead. But other routes (such as Baccus Marsh) will become increasing loco hauled. At least until the next batch of V Locities arrive.
Duncs

Tnks @Duncs  this does make a lot of sense.  Does Vline really have the passenger numbers and orders for rollingstock right?  It would appear V/Line never seem to get the money for all the rollingstock they request and we have capacity issues being a constant problem.

With the additional rollingstock arriving where will be it overnighted? Geelong?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I anticipate that the only loco hauled services remaining on that line will be the Warrnambool services which will run via Newport - Werribee - Geelong etc.. That way they don't interfere with the new timetable.
Duncs
That won't happen, all Geelong trains will travel via Wyndham Vale.

Warrnambool trains would skip probably all stations between North Geelong and Sunshine, so they won't Interfere the timetable with their 115Km/h speed limit.
A Vlocity may have a speed limit of 160 km/h but when they start to stop at Intermediate stations, their average speed plummets !  

The Werribee line will be choc a block with sparks !

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