RRL Project - West Werribee / Southern Cross

 
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
That won't happen, all Geelong trains will travel via Wyndham Vale.

Warrnambool trains would skip probably all stations between North Geelong and Sunshine, so they won't Interfere the timetable with their 115Km/h speed limit.
A Vlocity may have a speed limit of 160 km/h but when they start to stop at Intermediate stations, their average speed plummets !  

The Werribee line will be choc a block with sparks !
Nightfire

@Duncs does make a valid point.  Warnnambool services could continue via Werribee to provide a service between Geelong and Werribee for changing to sparks?

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  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
@Duncs does make a valid point.  Warnnambool services could continue via Werribee to provide a service between Geelong and Werribee for changing to sparks?
JimYarin
Won't happen

A path from North Melbourne to Werribee visa versa, would be very slow, around the average speed of a stop al stations spark
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It would make more sense to have a terminating shuttle between Geelong and Werribee; there will be plenty of room at Werribee for that once Geelong main-line services are gone. Not sure if there would be a large-enough demand for that though?
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
That is a very sensible proposal @don_dunstan

I don't think it would work with loo hauled but would be great as a sprinter of vlocity.

Shuttles back and forth from werribee to Geelong (platform 3) could be achieved probably with 2 sets being 3 cars each ?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
That is a very sensible proposal @don_dunstan

I don't think it would work with loo hauled but would be great as a sprinter of vlocity.

Shuttles back and forth from werribee to Geelong (platform 3) could be achieved probably with 2 sets being 3 cars each ?
freightgate
And what magic hat are they going to pull the required rolling stock out from ?
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Fair question but surely the PTV would have tought this one through ?
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Fair question but surely the PTV would have tought this one through ?
freightgate
All PTV have come up with Is a shuttle bus between Wyndham Vale and Werribee stations, along the usually grid locked Werribee - Ballan Road.

PTV grand plan Is to extend Werribee services to Wyndham Vale (with an Intermediate station called Black Forest)
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

With regards to the RRL, is there any work left that needs to be done? Or are we just waiting for the right political environment for it to open...
don_dunstan
Its all finished and ready to use . Only thing that is dictating the delayed opening is having as many as possible of current order for 43 VL cars to be delivered. Should be something like  18 - 20 by late April  . Without these extra cars the three promised extra peak trips  (both am Up and PM Down) on each of Geelong, Ballarat & bendigo corridors cannot be delivered .  Also driver training in hand.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

I am wondering Mike if Vline have done any passenger number modelling for the new railway stations?  How many extra people are expected to use the new stations and will the additional rollingstock be able to handle the additional patronage?
JimYarin
Looking at the dense residential development at Tarneit and especially Wyndamvale one can expect 30 - 40 % increase in short term on Geelong line peak patronage , so serious overcrowding issues from day 1 owing to failure by previous administrations to ensure that 67 extra cars requested by VLP are delievered by RRL opening date .  Only 20 or so will be delivered of current order for 43, plus another 20 cars still to be ordered . So all 63 cars still 2 - 3 years away .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Tnks @Duncs  this does make a lot of sense.  Does Vline really have the passenger numbers and orders for rollingstock right?  It would appear V/Line never seem to get the money for all the rollingstock they request and we have capacity issues being a constant problem.

With the additional rollingstock arriving where will be it overnighted? Geelong?
JimYarin
Additional stabling roads going in now at Geelong Loco for more VL sets .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

That won't happen, all Geelong trains will travel via Wyndham Vale.

Warrnambool trains would skip probably all stations between North Geelong and Sunshine, so they won't Interfere the timetable with their 115Km/h speed limit.
A Vlocity may have a speed limit of 160 km/h but when they start to stop at Intermediate stations, their average speed plummets !  

The Werribee line will be choc a block with sparks !
Nightfire
After the fatal dumbing down of  Warrnambool services in 2006 it is understood all Warrnambool services will be express  Footscray to Geelong . this saves running extra capacity to Warrnambool just to cater for Geelong travellers .  Geelong travellers to be directed as in past years to local Geelong services.

Warrnambool services will run via RRL NOT via Werribee as that would be crazy using a long distance inter City service to provide a Geelong - Werribee service .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Fair question but surely the PTV would have tought this one through ?
freightgate
They have and the number of pax travelling Geelong - Werribee ONLY justifies a frequent direct bus connection between Wyndamvale and Werribee, so that is what is going to be provided .

VLP is critically  short of rollingstock and cannot afford to be wasting even 2 Sprinters running an hourly shuttle between Geelong and Werribee . In any case even a single Sprinter would be overkill even at peak periods, so a bus link is being provided .  QED
  MelbourneCity Chief Commissioner

I expect that V Line will move all available V Locities onto the RRL Geelong line. I anticipate that the only loco hauled services remaining on that line will be the Warrnambool services which will run via Newport - Werribee - Geelong etc.. That way they don't interfere with the new timetable.

This will mean cascading Vlocities away from other routes. In some cases (such as Seymour) Sprinters can be used instead. But other routes (such as Baccus Marsh) will become increasing loco hauled. At least until the next batch of V Locities arrive.
"Duncs"


Could that mean sprinters returning to Echuca and some Bendigo services? H Sets on the Kyneton service etc?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I think any modelling would be largely guesswork. Sure, many who live around the new stations will have said that they will 'give it a try', but if they find themselves being jammed into an overcrowded sardine can, or waiting for the next train, they will probably get back in the car the following day and endure a slower, but more comfortable trip to the city.
mikesyd

As the journey time from Wyndham Vale to City is only about 35 mins, obviously less from Tarneit, I can see the standing pax generally persevering with the crowded services which will improve as more VLocity's are delivered.

Mike.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
I am starting to wonder about this rrl design. I agree with @mikesyd the length of time for standarding will be 35 minutes.

I actually think the demand for services on the new track will be huge and believe PTV know this already.

Therefore why was the rrl not delivered with 4 tracks or even 3 providing an ability for sparks to use the line from sunshine to west werribee and return ?

Extra tracks would have meant separation and scope for more frequent spark services.

Wait 12 months after opening or even the end of this year and this is what commuters will be screaming out for.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
Need to go back to the original plan which was extention of the Werribee Metro service around the corner so to speak to serve Tarneit and Wyndham Vale making a 4 track main along that section and V/Line would remain exclusively a regional service.  Passengers off V/Line services would change at 1 pf the 2 stops if they needed to access Wrribee to Newport.   This is what happends when you you only deliver two thirds of the original plan which with the cost savings achieved through the tendering process for RRL could have gone a long way to deliverying that.

The two stations will be deluged with passengers no matter how much new rollingstock you throw at it.   And in the evening peaks Geelong Line passengers will fight for seats which is going to go down really well.  This will leave tarnish the reputation of what should have been hailed as a major positive project for not only regional trains but freeing up the entire Werribee Line so that it can be an exclusive Metro route with siugnificantly increased capacity better able to manage the growth in that area,
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

The two stations will be deluged with passengers no matter how much new rollingstock you throw at it.   And in the evening peaks Geelong Line passengers will fight for seats which is going to go down really well.  This will leave tarnish the reputation of what should have been hailed as a major positive project for not only regional trains but freeing up the entire Werribee Line so that it can be an exclusive Metro route with siugnificantly increased capacity better able to manage the growth in that area,
Trainplanner
Yep.  I have relatives in Tarneit waiting in great anticipation to regularly use the new station there.  Let's see what happens....

And another thing, duplicating and electrifying the line out to Melton needs to happen sooner rather than later.  They'll really feel like poor cousins in the meantime.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Yep.  I have relatives in Tarneit waiting in great anticipation to regularly use the new station there.  Let's see what happens....

And another thing, duplicating and electrifying the line out to Melton needs to happen sooner rather than later.  They'll really feel like poor cousins in the meantime.
Carnot
The trouble is that in the morning the travellers from Wyndamvale and Tarneit are going to be standing as trains are full on departure from Lara now, plus idiotic VLP are reducing the maximum train size eventually from current 7 car VL set to 6 car sets . (The idiocy of locking themselves into a fleet of 3 car sets only ). In the PM Peak anyone getting on at Footscray or Sunshine will be standing at least as far as Tarneit or Wyndamvale .

With the melton line the urgent need is to duplicate first and electrify second.  Expensive project as it requires second track pair between Sunshine and Deer Park West .  In the first instance dupliaction of  Melton to Rockbank can proceed as no platform or station works are involved. Then move straight onto to duplicate Rockbank to Deer Park West which involves the final junction arrangement at  Robinsons Road with grade separation and rail over rail flyover . Duplication only can easily be achieved within the next 3 years .
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
The trouble is that in the morning the travellers from Wyndamvale and Tarneit are going to be standing as trains are full on departure from Lara now, plus idiotic VLP are reducing the maximum train size eventually from current 7 car VL set to 6 car sets .
kuldalai
It has been mentioned a number of times before that the maximum train length will not be 6 cars.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
What would be the best rolling stock for Wyndham Vale locals for the Initial start up ?

Would pull and push loco hauled trains work ?

A bit of a waste running Vlocity's on such a short run, along with their lower seating capacity ?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
What would be the best rolling stock for Wyndham Vale locals for the Initial start up ?

Would pull and push loco hauled trains work ?

A bit of a waste running Vlocity's on such a short run, along with their lower seating capacity ?
Nightfire
I believe a push-pull set is being assembled for these.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

It has been mentioned a number of times before that the maximum train length will not be 6 cars.
railblogger
Well if VLP are locked into multiples of 3 cars, and no platforms other than Ballarat No.1 and  Southern Cross can hold 9 cars are they going to run 9 car consists  ?     Southern Cross, Footscray, Tarneit , Wyndamvale, North Shore and North Geelong can hold an 8 car consist; and  Waurn Ponds, Marshall, South Geelong, Geelong & Lara can all be extended to hold 8 cars .

Therefore the need for the yet to be ordered  20 extra VL cars to be trailers to make  20 x 3 car sets up to 20x 4 car sets .

At the moment the 7 car sets on the Geelong are made up of 3+2+2  , but all the two sets are to become 3 so VLP have locked themselves into running 3 or 6 car sets .
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

What would be the best rolling stock for Wyndham Vale locals for the Initial start up ?

Would pull and push loco hauled trains work ?

A bit of a waste running Vlocity's on such a short run, along with their lower seating capacity ?
Nightfire
The best and fastest would be to comandeer  Sprinters off other lines and make them up into  4 car consists providing a 130kmh trip and fast turnaround at bothe nds, maximize return trips at Peak times.  one really doesnt want to be wasting VL sets on an outer suburban run, and  Push/Pull H sets  ploddinga long at 100kmh in between 160kmh VL is not reallys ensible.

Ineviatbly however it will be a mix of anything they can lay their hands on, albeit it may not be the best solution .
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Well if VLP are locked into multiples of 3 cars, and no platforms other than Ballarat No.1 and  Southern Cross can hold 9 cars are they going to run 9 car consists  ?     Southern Cross, Footscray, Tarneit , Wyndamvale, North Shore and North Geelong can hold an 8 car consist; and  Waurn Ponds, Marshall, South Geelong, Geelong & Lara can all be extended to hold 8 cars .
kuldalai
That's correct and Footscray can hold 9 cars as can be seen by the stopping marks on the RRL platforms.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I passed the new line yesterday and it was interesting to see shine on the rail heads, the Tarneit line must be seeing lots of regular use with empty runnings now.

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