Who is winning The RACE (part 2)?

 
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

A forcast delivery date from Auscision should be a lot more reliable than one from Eureka. I still can't believe that Eureka haven't announced the road numbers their 40 class will appear in given the previously announced April 2010 delivery date has passed.
"kingfisher"


What are you talking about?

The Eureka Times
16th Edition, 20 September, 2008

http://eurekamodels.com.au/news16.html

Three styles of models are being produced:

Type 1.        4008 and 4009 in Green livery
             Original condition with louvres and for-and-aft exhaust stack.

TYpe 2.        4012 and 4019 in Green livery
             4001 and 4002 in Royal Blue livery
             Original condition with louvres but with modified crosswise exhaust stack

Type 3.        4006, 4011, 4017, 4018 in red livery.
             Mesh instead of louvres and with crosswise exhuast stack

Sponsored advertisement

  kingfisher Chief Train Controller

Pity the order form on the web site and advert in the AMRM have never been updated.
  bjviper Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisvegas
Pity the order form on the web site and advert in the AMRM have never been updated.
"kingfisher"


I agree, you shouldn't have to go fishing through news letters to find numbers.

Nor has the CPH order form been updated with numbers and livery deletions, yet the models are bloody here!!! The C38 pdf form does not work either, and never has to my knowledge

Yet more areas for Eureka to lift their game  Rolling Eyes
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

Mine have been ordered with the numbers I wanted for over 18 months, it wasn't that hard to find out.

I so much missed the manufacturer bashing and bitching while Railpage was down ......... not   Rolling Eyes
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Criticism is not bitching, good constructive criticism of something does produce something, in the case of the streamlined 38's a new nose cone on the next batch. If everyone had stayed Mum and not said a word would it have been corrected, possibly no because even if Eureka themselves knew it was wrong, if no one complains then no one has noticed it. In this instance you did all notice it and were quite vocal about it and with just cause as well.

So the manufacture has taken heed of your criticism's and done something about it. Which is good! It is things like this that get better models, if we all shut up about things wrong on models, we might as well go back to old Tyco models and just repaint standard models into what we want. Just my two bobs worth on the subject!
  Albert Chief Commissioner

Criticism is not bitching, good constructive criticism of something does produce something, in the case of the streamlined 38's a new nose cone on the next batch. If everyone had stayed Mum and not said a word would it have been corrected, possibly no because even if Eureka themselves knew it was wrong, if no one complains then no one has noticed it. In this instance you did all notice it and were quite vocal about it and with just cause as well.

So the manufacture has taken heed of your criticism's and done something about it. Which is good! It is things like this that get better models, if we all shut up about things wrong on models, we might as well go back to old Tyco models and just repaint standard models into what we want. Just my two bobs worth on the subject!
"David Peters"


You're spot on David. However some of it get vindictive at times.
  DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it

Have noted your comments Toby,

However I am still wanting to give Auscision the benefit of the doubt.

After all they are the ones who have announced the 2011 year date (no actual month given or which 1/4 or 1/3 of the year) on the web site and order forms. It could arrive on the 31st December 2011.

Have also noted this

http://www.auscisionmodels.com.au/73%20Class%20Page.htm

A pilot model on display within the time frame given that they said one would be ready.

Willing to stand corrected but wasn't the 73 class buried down on some other manufacturers to do list?

Lets give all our manufacturers the benefit of the doubt - the models will arrive when they do and we should be grateful.

Regards,

Catchpoint
"catchpoint"


That is fair enough but;

The EL's took 18 months to arrive from pilot models being produced.
The N's pilot samples first appeared in November 2008, they are due any day, or at least next month, how long is that going to be?
(I haven't checked the A/B's)
So...

Auscision may have a better record than Eureka for predicting arrivals (not that this is a difficult thing to do) but they have still been consistently underestimating arrival times.
I am trying very hard not to do the same.  I am sure that these pilot models are the first ones (why would they not be?) and I note that all last year Auscision were advertising the N's to arrive in 2009!

So I'm afraid looking at past history if I believe the producer, my prediction will definitely be wrong.  I would very much like it if the 73's did arrive next year, but I'm afraid it is extremely unlikely.  Even if they did, it will definitely be very late in the year.

The other point I would make is that the N class has two different colour schemes (one with 2 different logos).  It has still taken over 18 months from the pilot samples appearing and the models still haven't actually arrived! So with 11 different colour schemes expecting there to be a smooth sailing process here is extremely optimistic, in my view.

Looking back at previous RACE predictions, as mentioned in the first post, I have been very very wrong, and very very overoptmistic in the past, especially when I believe the producers.  I'm probably still being optimistic with many on the list!

Re someone else doing it, I'm really not sure what happened, although someone on this forum who also uses the yahoo Aus Model Group (or something like that, I don't know exactly) claimed that someone from TrainOrama announced that they would be doing the 73 (& the 90).

However this was never verified in a TrainOrama newsletter, and whilst it is not impossible that they were both planning the 73, clearly Auscision have won that race.  So even if TOR were planning the 73, I expect they would now (if they haven't already) quietly cancel it.

Warm regards
Toby
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

It seems that what is happening in the model process, each time the producers have to make an altheration it costs them big time, thus there is a real effort being put into getting the CAD drawings correct in the first place so as to eliminate these correction issues.


At the risk of stating the obvious, one would have thought that the manufacturers were doing this in the first place. Anyone worth their salt would firstly check their own drawings and information and then checking the manufacturers interpretation well before getting to the stage of tooling.

Alterations do cost a lot in time and money but when the research is done properly in the first place those issues wont arise. That there are different approaches to this area probably explains some of the gaffs that we have seen

Craig W
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Re someone else doing it, I'm really not sure what happened, although someone on this forum who also uses the yahoo Aus Model Group (or something like that, I don't know exactly) claimed that someone from TrainOrama announced that they would be doing the 73 (& the 90).
"DQ2004"


The yahoo group is Aus_Model_Rail, the relevant message about 73 & 90 class production is #14490 posted on 17/9/07.
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
...I am sure that these pilot models are the first ones (why would they not be?)...
"DQ2004, discussing the 73 class"


"Why not"? For the same reason we have pilot models of the Auscision CSX wagons before we even saw a CAD drawing. Clearly the old 'rules' of "announce a model -> a year later show some drawings -> a year later show first sample -> everyone complain about errors in first sample -> show corrected samples -> final production" are no longer being followed!

OnTrack bypassed all the rules with the GLX/LLV's and just arrived when ready, SDS have pretty much done the same with their  various containers showing production ready samples, and even Auscision have also managed to sneak an unannounced model (steel butterbox) to the final sample stage before letting us in on the secret. In the case of the 73's we've gone from first announcement to showing of CAD drawings to having a sample model in just 5 weeks! Clearly the 'rules' are not being followed on this one either!!!
  a6et Minister for Railways

It seems that what is happening in the model process, each time the producers have to make an altheration it costs them big time, thus there is a real effort being put into getting the CAD drawings correct in the first place so as to eliminate these correction issues.


At the risk of stating the obvious, one would have thought that the manufacturers were doing this in the first place. Anyone worth their salt would firstly check their own drawings and information and then checking the manufacturers interpretation well before getting to the stage of tooling.

Alterations do cost a lot in time and money but when the research is done properly in the first place those issues wont arise. That there are different approaches to this area probably explains some of the gaffs that we have seen

Craig W
"CraigW"


Craig,  Whilst what you say may be true & obvious, I would think that it would be fine in a perfect world but, you only have to talk to each of the producers for them to tell you that even when they have the perfect drawing, & sign off on a product, it does not always turn out that way, as the Chinese have a way of altering things without letting their clients know.

From what I hear, it is something that has caused a deal of angst among them all, & when you read the various news from them you can see what they have been dealing with.
  anzac1959 Chief Commissioner

Austrains NR were due in late July Southern Spirit livery are they on time?
  splodgelet Locomotive Fireman

Location: In front of a computer
According to the Austrains website it says ' Shipment will be mid August '
So my guess is that they may be a little later than mid July.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
OnTrack bypassed all the rules with the GLX/LLV's and just arrived when ready, SDS have pretty much done the same with their  various containers showing production ready samples, and even Auscision have also managed to sneak an unannounced model (steel butterbox) to the final sample stage before letting us in on the secret. In the case of the 73's we've gone from first announcement to showing of CAD drawings to having a sample model in just 5 weeks! Clearly the 'rules' are not being followed on this one either!!!
"Poath Junction"


You cannot really compare the delivery performance of a manufacturer producing rolling stock with one producing locomotives. Not all the Chinese manufacturers will tackle a powered model, and there are many who are happy to just do plastic model assembly. Sure, you can get a rolling stock item out in a short time, and if you wanted a model car you could probably have that pretty quick too.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Criticism is not bitching, good constructive criticism of something does produce something, in the case of the streamlined 38's a new nose cone on the next batch. If everyone had stayed Mum and not said a word would it have been corrected, possibly no because even if Eureka themselves knew it was wrong, if no one complains then no one has noticed it. In this instance you did all notice it and were quite vocal about it and with just cause as well.

So the manufacture has taken heed of your criticism's and done something about it. Which is good! It is things like this that get better models, if we all shut up about things wrong on models, we might as well go back to old Tyco models and just repaint standard models into what we want. Just my two bobs worth on the subject!
"David Peters"


Wont you ever give it a rest David?

deleted and sent PM  Rolling Eyes
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I don't believe that you want models with major faults in them if they can be avoided, otherwise we would all be modelling using locomotives akin to old Tri-ang locomotives of the 1960's. If you have ever seen some of the poorer attempts over the years to do an Australian locomotive you would know what I am talking about.

Some were sheer disasters would be the only way to say it. This is well before Lima even had their stuff out, If you had said back then that someone would one day do a RTR plastic Australian locomotive diesel or steam, they would have had you committed to the insane asylum very quickly.

But over the years criticism of various overseas repaints finally came to fruition when Lima made their 44 class diesel and even they had a lot wrong, but over the years these and other locomotives were upgraded, the original motors were not that good at all, the gearing made then run like a scared jack rabbit. We complained and later Lima re did the gear system in them, the Lima 38's were the same, the original had only a drive to one drive wheel, the later ones were all main wheel drive, after comments about their pulling power were aired.

If you want improvements made then you must be ready to criticise something, because if you do not, as I said the importers then think it is has been done properly and just sit back and rake in their cash, if however someone points out a bad mistake or wiring error or something then they can take steps to get it fixed if it is possible to do it.

If I was making models and someone points out a glaring error in one I know I would not throw in the towel, but get the models corrected if at all possible, if not point out the error and offer them at a reduced price or something. Just remaining mum about things only feeds the rumour mill and could damage your business.

As has been said the Chinese manufactures take all manner of short cuts to make the models you want, this is where the mistakes are probably made, but they hopefully would be picked up before the models are released.

I am not that adverse to correcting something on a model though if it is something minor, but if it requires major surgery or something to get it right then it should not really have been released to the modellers till it was fixed to the importers satisfaction! We are paying big money for current models and while I do not expect 100% accuracy of the models, we should expect pretty close to it for the money we fork out to buy them. Not all of us have a bottomless pit of money to suit our modelling needs!

I am not having a go at you or anyone else just pointing out some things that have been said to me by owners of some of the current crop of Australian manufactures, some of these comments range from extremely pleased to extremely disappointed depending on what the model is!
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
This isn't the thread to discuss such issues.

Seriously, we get it.

Post in the appropriate thread where you can discuss any issues and qualms to your hearts content.

Hasn't that axe worn out yet?

Wolfpac
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Nope! Laughing
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
Nope! Laughing
"David Peters"


Judging by the ongoing, repetitive, circular posts that are posted on and on and on, ad nauseam, posting to the point of boredom and that level of repetitiveness, it wouldn't surprise me one iota. Nor would anyone else who does the same.

In any case lets discuss what's coming out, what's out etc. You know, for a change.

Not what's wrong with a comparison between 30+ year old models and current day models.

Nor who has the biggest agenda against certain companies.

Wolfpac
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

[quote] nor who has the biggest agenda against certain companies.[quote]

I keep seeing this brought up ad nauseum. Do any of those who say it have any evidence of an agenda or bias.. you know, the verifiable proof that is constantly talked about .. and not just an opinion?

Craig W[/quote]
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
nor who has the biggest agenda against certain companies.


I keep seeing this brought up ad nauseum. Do any of those who say it have any evidence of an agenda or bias.. you know, the verifiable proof that is constantly talked about .. and not just an opinion?

Craig W
"wolfpac"
"CraigW"


That's fine, it's pretty clear to see. Nobody hides it. Although, I'm intrigued by by this direction of the thread now...

Go back a couple of posts, someone certainly ain't hiding it...

Wolfpac
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

Looked back, cant see anything i am afraid. So please, elaborate and explain

Craig W
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
Looked back, cant see anything i am afraid. So please, elaborate and explain

Craig W
"CraigW"


Albeit, again, this is a thread to discuss the current motive power coming out, not whine and moan about what's wrong with models.


http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1408576.htm#1408576

Then the response, which was pretty obvious anyway:

http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1408581.htm#1408581

Wolfpac
  CraigW Assistant Commissioner

In other words, you like to fuel the conspiracy theories but dont have a thing to substantiate your claims.

How typical

Craig W
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
In other words, you like to fuel the conspiracy theories but dont have a thing to substantiate your claims.

How typical

Craig W
"CraigW"


I'll go wade through a few threads in question, just for your personal satisfaction and report back.

That's what I had to hand immediately.

Wolfpac

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