New/imported steam locos on Vic narrow gauge?

 
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

More details regards Nepal... As of 2004, the locos had been withdrawn from sale and all remained in-country.  The plans were to create a tourist operation, and also the King didn't want them to leave as part of the country's rail heritage, as it only had a very small fleet to start with.

However, I haven't found any news dated later than that (also the monarchy was abolished in 2008), other than some reports that the locos are apparently still there but very derelict, the 2 Garratts sitting in a locomotive graveyard in Khajuri, near the border to India.

As a bonus for the dreamers though, Nepal's railway was indeed 2'6''...

Sponsored advertisement

  Adogs Chief Train Controller

More details regards Nepal... As of 2004, the locos had been withdrawn from sale and all remained in-country.  The plans were to create a tourist operation, and also the King didn't want them to leave as part of the country's rail heritage, as it only had a very small fleet to start with.

However, I haven't found any news dated later than that (also the monarchy was abolished in 2008), other than some reports that the locos are apparently still there but very derelict, the 2 Garratts sitting in a locomotive graveyard in Khajuri, near the border to India.

One of the Garratts in Khajuri looked like this in 1984:

[bigimg]http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/bgpix/ngr4.jpg[/bigimg]

As a bonus for the dreamers though, Nepal's railway was indeed 2'6''...
  blue520 Train Controller

... I would like to see is the restoration of the Powelltown Shay on to 3' 6" trucks to tour lines in all Australian states and the NT. Followed by a return to Vic. and being put on 2' 6" trucks.
"blue520"

I thought both Powelltown Shays were scrapped. But it's great news if one of them survived, where is it?
"Bogong"


Both? As far as I know there was only one shay (builders number 2576, a B 32-2 type shay). What is the other?

2576 is privately owned and stored dismantled minus truck on a property in Melbourne.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
... I would like to see is the restoration of the Powelltown Shay on to 3' 6" trucks to tour lines in all Australian states and the NT. Followed by a return to Vic. and being put on 2' 6" trucks.
"blue520"

I thought both Powelltown Shays were scrapped. But it's great news if one of them survived, where is it?
"Bogong"

Both? As far as I know there was only one shay (builders number 2576, a B 32-2 type shay). What is the other?

2576 is privately owned and stored dismantled minus truck on a property in Melbourne.
"blue520"

2576 was bought by the company in 1927 as a burnt wreck with a buckled frame. At Powelltown they cut the bad section out of the frame and built a new cab which was quite small so it could fit on to the shortened frame. As such it was unpopular and barely used except when 2575 was out of service. 2575 was an unmodified Shay and worked well on the bush lines, as well as the main line between Powelltown and The Bump tunnel, although it rarely went west to Yarra Junction.

2575 (the good engine) was sold as scrap in 1948, but the boiler went to Carpolac in the Wimmera to power a sawmill. 2576 (the engine with the shortened frame and small cab) was sent to Omeo in its rebuilt form (minus wheels and bogies) where it also powered a sawmill until about 50 years ago.


2575 at Powelltown in 1938
  blue520 Train Controller

Thanks Bogong, hang my head in shame. It totality slipped my mind that there were two Lloyd Copper shays that finally went to Victoria from N.S.W.

Any idea on approximately how much frame was chopped out of 2576? Was the original bunker and boiler retained or were new ones fabricated?
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Sorry, my knowledge doesn't go far and I can't find any more in books and pamphlets. Nor can I find photos of 2576 after it's rebuild, which isn't surprising as it didn't run that often.

However I found a photo of it after the fire in NSW that burnt it out. All woodwork is gone and the frame is seriously bent under the footplate.

The photo is in: Stamford, et al. Powelltown: a history of it's timber mills and tramways. LRRSA, 1984. p. 103.
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
The Henschel can barely pull three cars until the coal box had to be modified.The owner modified it with a large new coal box and a smoke stack that alows condensed water from the cylinders going backwards into the boiler. It's stored because WGR and PBR don't wish to run it.

The cars that WGR runs are built at same place as the PBR NBH cars. I know because they were built locally.
"TheMetman"


Not quite true, the PBR NBHs were built at Skilled Engineerings workshop at Yallourn (the former State Electricity Commission facility). WGR's NBw cars were indeed built at Yallourn by the former SEC, but in a completely different part of the complex. As for steam at Walhalla, the economics do not add up for regular operation compared to diesels. The general public seems quite happy with what is on offer in terms of traction - quite frankly I don't believe they can tell the difference. Steam locos are just not in the public mind any more.
  tjd Locomotive Fireman
  CAP_gauge Junior Train Controller

I think Bogong is overstating the case in saying that 2576 was barely used, and in saying that it had a very short cab. It is true that it was less popular with the crews than 2575 because there was less room in the cab but I don't think the cab so much shorter that it shows up in photographs.
Every other significant part of the original 2576 was retained when they shortened the frames.
I have spoken to a number of people who worked at Powelltown in the 1920s and 1930s including at least one who fired on the Shays, but nobody said 2576 was barely used. They said 2575 was preferred.  

By the way, 2576 was known as "Green Beetle" at Powelltown, but both were painted green from all the evidence I have.

Frank
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Thanks Frank. What I said about 2576 was just a vaguely recalled memory of a discussion a long time ago. I am fascinated by the Powelltown town operations, (I was at New Federal Mill and Ada No. 2 Mill last month), but I don't have any special knowledge.

. . --oo0oo-- . .

Of course, there is another Victorian source of narrow gauge locomotives, (although not steam). The rolling stock of 3 foot gauge Bogong Creek Tramway is largely intact, as is 85% of it's track. It doesn't appear to have been used in recent years. One locomotive and a few trucks are parked half way along the line in a siding, but the rest are in an unwalled shed on a gravel road only a couple of hundred metres from the C 531.

It would be great to see them rescued and operating somewhere.
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

FWIW, the Bredgar & Wormhill Light Railway in England have an identical Henschel to the one at Walhalla for sale.  Came from the same mill in Thailand:

http://www.bwlr.co.uk/locos.php?flag=siam
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
FWIW, the Bredgar & Wormhill Light Railway in England have an identical Henschel to the one at Walhalla for sale.  Came from the same mill in Thailand:

http://www.bwlr.co.uk/locos.php?flag=siam
"Adogs"


There is also one sitting rusting in the museum here in Dalby:

  Adogs Chief Train Controller

Am I correct in remembering that the one in Dalby's owned by the same bloke who owns the Walhalla one, or at least that he used to own both?
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
I apogises in advance for any naivety to this question, but just how is it seemingly ALL locos have ended up at PB? As such I don't decry what they have achieved and continue to provide but do they in fact own all of these ? Are they effectively guardian/trustees/ custodians to all or any of them ?

Just curious Smile
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
I apogises in advance for any naivety to this question, but just how is it seemingly ALL locos have ended up at PB? As such I don't decry what they have achieved and continue to provide but do they in fact own all of these ? Are they effectively guardian/trustees/ custodians to all or any of them ?

Just curious Smile
"SPSD40T2"

Most of the people at PB over the past 60 odd years are / were good people. But they all had a taste for almost ruthless "Empire Building". Once anything that could be conceivably made to run on their tracks strayed into their clutches, it was destined to never leave.

They said as much about the Lyell railway carriages. When the Abt railway was being rebuilt and a polite request was made for the carriages to return to their home, PB refused and said words to the effect of "over our dead bodies". Similar things have happened with the loco and rolling stock used during the first attempt at reviving the Walhalla line. When it failed, the rolling stock went to PB and even when Walhalla was successfully revived, the rolling stock that had been used in the first attempt stayed at Puffing Billy and the WGR had to build and scrounge their own rolling stock. There are a couple of other instances of similar behaviour from the PB Empire.

But this dedicated utter ruthlessness in snatching everything they could lay their paws on has resulted in lots more being preserved than if PB had more modest goals and had only taken what they needed. Examples are the huge collection of original VR narrow gauge rolling stock. They hold far more than they could have ever expected to use 50 years ago. They also collected a vast range of other narrow gauge stuff ranging from logging locomotives to a massive semi-streamlined express locomotive from Silverton (which could never run on their track). Most of this stuff would have been scrapped if it wasn't for the efforts of the pioneers of PB.

A few things did escape them, the corpse of the second Powelltown Shay was bought by a private collector who refused to sell it to PB, as a result it has been neglected in private ownership for the past 50 years and is now probably beyond restoration. So instead, they bought a Shay from Taiwan. This Shay is still sitting in a shed, but they look after it, so it's possible that one day it could conceivably restored... but only if PB don't have to relinquish ownership.

So it appears to modern eyes that PB has a very infant like "If I see it, I own it forever" attitude. BUT if it wasn't for the long dead pioneers of that railway having this attitude, an awful lot of priceless stuff would have been scrapped. However it is a shame that the people who now run Puffing Billy still hang onto this approach when some of the stuff they own could be better utilised elsewhere.
  SPSD40T2 Chief Commissioner

Location: Platform 9-3/4 and still waiting !!
Thanks for that Bogong. Can certainlysee the two sides. I am however just curious to know what if anything is possibly still actually owned by the State as is but being cared for by pbr?
  NSWGR 3827 Deputy Commissioner

Location: South of the Border
Bear in mind that when thinking of returning current PB equipment to their Native railway, consider that they have suffered at times from lack of locos particularly and sometimes shortage of Pass Cars.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: wurx

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.