Toolamba - Echuca line reopening

 
  JasonJones Station Staff

Location: Pakenham, Victoria
Sorry to be digging up and old thread.

I notice the latest V-line Freight Timetables showing the Deni Train now going thru Bendigo Up and down?

What is going on with the Toolamba line? Has this been mothballed agian?

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  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Looks like the outbound service goes through bendigo, the return to Melbourne comes down through toolamba.   Not sure why they do this.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Looks like the outbound service goes through bendigo, the return to Melbourne comes down through toolamba.   Not sure why they do this.
james.au
Has been discussed before, it is to do with pathing problems.

BG
  x31 Chief Commissioner

Location: gallifrey
Looks like the outbound service goes through bendigo, the return to Melbourne comes down through toolamba.   Not sure why they do this.
james.au

Not always a view of the Golden Square railcam tjhis week will shoe X31 on the down and the up for the rice train.  Suggests some trains running via Seymour and some running via Bendigo.

I think now we have:

PN grain via Bendigo
Qube grain via Bendigo

Qube Goods via Bendigo
PN Goods via Seymour
Qube Goods via Seymour (Tocumwal)
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Sorry X31, I was referring to the timetable.  Actual results may vary.
Thanks Brenton.  The paths limitation conversation that ive read skipped my mind.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Essentially since the extra Up Shepperton AM Pass has been added to the timetable the early pathing has been limited. This has lead to the train leaving Melbourne much earlier in the morning. Previously it would leave at around 0500, now it is leaving at about midnight. The same for the Qube Tocumwal freight (although obviously this still goes via Seymour).

Has anybody got any idea whether or not Murchison East has been made available as a regular crossing post? I have seen a recent photo of a freight and a pass crossing there, would this be a one off or is this to become a regular event? There is also a lot of grain being held at Murhchison East, is this able to be loaded onto rail?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Essentially since the extra Up Shepperton AM Pass has been added to the timetable the early pathing has been limited. This has lead to the train leaving Melbourne much earlier in the morning. Previously it would leave at around 0500, now it is leaving at about midnight. The same for the Qube Tocumwal freight (although obviously this still goes via Seymour).

Has anybody got any idea whether or not Murchison East has been made available as a regular crossing post? I have seen a recent photo of a freight and a pass crossing there, would this be a one off or is this to become a regular event? There is also a lot of grain being held at Murhchison East, is this able to be loaded onto rail?
Gman_86
Thanks GMan.

Id be interested in the answer to the Murchison question too.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Why not just open Murchison East and have that and Toolamba Junction controlled from Shepparton or Seymour?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
PN's Down Tocumwal Goods just through Albion around 1 hour ago.



https://youtu.be/sk7BIIygd1U
  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

Ah yes; the Murchison East problem.

Currently opened in the afternoon. Crosses the Up Deniliquin QUBE, PN Tocumwal (or QUBE Tocumwal, depends on the day of the week), also an Up MT cars VLP against the 16:31 and 19:08 Shepparton pass trains. Signaller also operates Toolamba as required (then presumably a dash back to Murchi for the next cross). Haven't actually seen it in action.

Murchi is a standard 2-position signalled single line crossing station. Main difference to "tradition" is colour light signals, instead of semaphore arms. Trains into 2 road run under hand signals (green flag at the points). Camperdown has similar arrangements, and that's about it for regular crossing stations.

The whole section Seymour - Murchi East - Toolamba - Mooroopna - Shepparton is in need of proper 3-position signals with remote operation (either from Seymour or Centrol). Both ends are basically done; Mooroopna would be fairly easy (switch locks of a modern style); the other 2 would be where the costs would be. Say a few million for Murchi East, maybe a couple more million for the junction. All well and good, but that cost of total say $10 - 20 million would have to be offset against the current arrangement (costing a couple of hundred thou annually). Hard to justify that on a 50-year payback. Anyone here offering some ready cash?

Everything would change if major change occurs in the future; these would include more pass trains to Shepparton (only 4 each way daily, plus 1 MT cars each way), also more freight (currently usually between 1 and 2, occasionally 3 each way daily). Say 14 moves daily total, with just a couple of crosses and follow-on moves to keep the signaller occupied. Predictable changes might be extra pass trains (for which there is demand), or upgrade to SG / Inland Rail.

For now, I suggest you get your photos of these manual arrangements; they won't last forever.
  emmastreet Train Controller

Location: Goulburn Valley
Essentially since the extra Up Shepperton AM Pass has been added to the timetable the early pathing has been limited. This has lead to the train leaving Melbourne much earlier in the morning. Previously it would leave at around 0500, now it is leaving at about midnight. The same for the Qube Tocumwal freight (although obviously this still goes via Seymour).

Has anybody got any idea whether or not Murchison East has been made available as a regular crossing post? I have seen a recent photo of a freight and a pass crossing there, would this be a one off or is this to become a regular event? There is also a lot of grain being held at Murhchison East, is this able to be loaded onto rail?
Gman_86
I could well be wrong but I'm not aware of any reason grain can't be railed from Murchison East. Some years ago a number of sleepers in the loop and silo roads were replaced with concrete sleepers. I don't think a train has been loaded there since.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I could well be wrong but I'm not aware of any reason grain can't be railed from Murchison East. Some years ago a number of sleepers in the loop and silo roads were replaced with concrete sleepers. I don't think a train has been loaded there since.
emmastreet

Hi Emmastreet are the silos at Murchison East sizable and have you seen any recent storage activity in your travels?
  emmastreet Train Controller

Location: Goulburn Valley
I could well be wrong but I'm not aware of any reason grain can't be railed from Murchison East. Some years ago a number of sleepers in the loop and silo roads were replaced with concrete sleepers. I don't think a train has been loaded there since.

Hi Emmastreet are the silos at Murchison East sizable and have you seen any recent storage activity in your travels?
bevans
GrainCorp have Murchison East receivals this harvest being at or near a record but the site is nowhere near the size of Dookie or Tocumwal. My memory of grain loading there on rail is wagons being dropped off/picked up by Tocumwal trains. As far as I'm aware no grain has gone out this season by road or rail.
  HardWorkingMan Chief Commissioner

Location: Echuca
I think you will find all the deni rice trains now going via Toolamba again.  The Bendigo line is baulked at the up side of the Ogilvie Avenue level crossing.  All passenger train services have been suspended indefinitely. According to the local paper and WIN News Bendigo it was because an (unspecified) crossing's boom gates dropped 15 seconds before the train got to the crossing not 25 seconds.  Nothing says which crossing it was or the speed of the train at the time.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I could well be wrong but I'm not aware of any reason grain can't be railed from Murchison East. Some years ago a number of sleepers in the loop and silo roads were replaced with concrete sleepers. I don't think a train has been loaded there since.

Hi Emmastreet are the silos at Murchison East sizable and have you seen any recent storage activity in your travels?
GrainCorp have Murchison East receivals this harvest being at or near a record but the site is nowhere near the size of Dookie or Tocumwal. My memory of grain loading there on rail is wagons being dropped off/picked up by Tocumwal trains. As far as I'm aware no grain has gone out this season by road or rail.
emmastreet

If Dookie is so big why has Victrack refused to fix the damage they caused to the junction so graincorp trains can access the silos?
  Crossover Train Controller

Location: St. Albans Victoria
I think you will find all the deni rice trains now going via Toolamba again.  The Bendigo line is baulked at the up side of the Ogilvie Avenue level crossing.  All passenger train services have been suspended indefinitely. According to the local paper and WIN News Bendigo it was because an (unspecified) crossing's boom gates dropped 15 seconds before the train got to the crossing not 25 seconds.  Nothing says which crossing it was or the speed of the train at the time.
HardWorkingMan
        Why is it each time something like this happens the trains get cancelled completely ? Why can`t they be run SLOWLY through the affected crossing till it is fixed ?
         Cancelling trains seems the EASY way out and the travelling public DON`T Like it .
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I think you will find all the deni rice trains now going via Toolamba again.  The Bendigo line is baulked at the up side of the Ogilvie Avenue level crossing.  All passenger train services have been suspended indefinitely. According to the local paper and WIN News Bendigo it was because an (unspecified) crossing's boom gates dropped 15 seconds before the train got to the crossing not 25 seconds.  Nothing says which crossing it was or the speed of the train at the time.
        Why is it each time something like this happens the trains get cancelled completely ? Why can`t they be run SLOWLY through the affected crossing till it is fixed ?
         Cancelling trains seems the EASY way out and the travelling public DON`T Like it .
Crossover

What happens if the level crossing protection fails completely Question

Some motorists are complete morons and potentially could drive right into the side of a train.

'I didn't see the train...the flashing lights weren't operating'

The State becomes liable due to the actions of the imbeciles.

Mike.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
It's not the busiest line in the state, between 2 and 4 passenger trains a day. Just send a signalman down there when a train is due to activate the crossing manually and divert all freight via Toolamba until it's fixed. Not that complicated.

The government and V/Line have been treating this line with contempt for too long now, a much publicised expenditure program to improve the line speed has amounted to nothing, and now the second they sniff an oppurtunity they book the line out and bustitute the service. An absolute joke.
  MetroFemme Assistant Commissioner

V/Line have become completely dysfunctional when it comes to providing public transport services so my hasn't the minister stepped in and made some changes?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Another perspective - are the Echuca services really contributing that much from an economic perspective, or do they have a pretty high cost for the benefits that are produced??

It was probably introduced as a political measure anyway, no?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Another perspective - are the Echuca services really contributing that much from an economic perspective, or do they have a pretty high cost for the benefits that are produced??

It was probably introduced as a political measure anyway, no?
james.au
Passenger rail was reinstated over a decade ago.  It has benefits for tourism, although it would have far greater benefit if there were more train services that also ran faster than the current glacial 75 km/h.

Also, it does (or did) carry much of the freight out of Deniliquin, even with the Toolamba line option.  It takes some of the pressure off the Goulburn Valley line which is running at full capacity atm.    If some of this Autumn's (big) rice harvest can't go via Bendigo, watch the fallout.  They really need to reopen it by mid-May.  Also, some grain is hauled out of Elmore by PN.

But Jacinta Allen has an ongoing feud with the MP for Murray (Peter Walsh), so it's obvious Echuca will be treated as an appendix.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Let's not forget grain is also hauled out north of Echuca and more is available if PN or Qube want it west of Barnes.  The Goulburn may be at what is capacity now but years ago more capacity was available and opening some crossing loops with centrol would fix that issue I presume?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
What happens if the level crossing protection fails completely Question

Some motorists are complete morons and potentially could drive right into the side of a train.

'I didn't see the train...the flashing lights weren't operating'

The State becomes liable due to the actions of the imbeciles.

Mike.
The Vinelander.
So the alternative is we cancel trains and inconvenience thousands of people every time some little thing happens instead of investigating the alternatives? VLine's default position now is to cancel services for any problem, large or small, and the customer be damned.

BG
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
It's not the busiest line in the state, between 2 and 4 passenger trains a day. Just send a signalman down there when a train is due to activate the crossing manually and divert all freight via Toolamba until it's fixed. Not that complicated.

The government and V/Line have been treating this line with contempt for too long now, a much publicised expenditure program to improve the line speed has amounted to nothing, and now the second they sniff an oppurtunity they book the line out and bustitute the service. An absolute joke.
Gman_86

There is more than one protected level crossing between Echuca and Bendigo...who's to say another wouldn't become defective Question

It's all well and good to spit the dummy because some posters have a personal axe to grind due to frustration or some-such; however the safety of passengers, crew and the possible imbecilic motorist is paramount.

Mike.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
What happens if the level crossing protection fails completely Question

Some motorists are complete morons and potentially could drive right into the side of a train.

'I didn't see the train...the flashing lights weren't operating'

The State becomes liable due to the actions of the imbeciles.

Mike.
So the alternative is we cancel trains and inconvenience thousands of people every time some little thing happens instead of investigating the alternatives? VLine's default position now is to cancel services for any problem, large or small, and the customer be damned.

BG
BrentonGolding

Aren't the level crossings which are protected also protected rail wise by a coloured signal?

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