Is monorail a viable option for Northern Beaches

 
  Redaxe Locomotive Driver

Hey

I haven't seen any discussion on this topic so I was wondering if it is possible to construct a monorail from North Sydney railway station to Military road towards Mosman via Neutral Bay and possibly across Spit Bridge. Monorail has an advantage over conventional rail in that it requires relatively little space to build a grade separate line without requiring complex tunnelling or unsightly viaducts.


On a side note I know the current monorail in Sydney city is useless due to the limited circuit and expensive fares. However if a network was constructed that took people where they needed to go and had reasonable fares I wonder if it could be a cost effective solution to improving Sydney traffic.

Any thoughts?

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  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I can see the Mosmanites up in arms now about the "ugly, eyesore" of the track...
  4426 Chief Commissioner

Location: BUSY GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES
I agree with Raichase on this sorry.

There was a huge outcry for the one in the City being built so I dont like the chances for one through say Mosman etc as they would be used to the bus "service" provided by now.
  moonetau Junior Train Controller

Monorails are tourist attractions not a serious public transport option.
Tunnelling is becoming less complex and more affordable (in general terms, but in NSW ....... who knows, with the state we are in - pardon the pun).
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
Five posts and no Simpsons references?
  lsrailfan Minister for Railways

Location: Somewhere you're not
MONO- DO'H Sorry stb  Mr. Green
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Yeah, monorails are actually outdated technology that has shown its limitations. Carrying capacity is far less and speed, well I've never been on one thats done more than running pace.

As others have said you'd start with a tunnel. Syndey is built on sandstone, why waste this low cost tunnel option. Then as required go viaduct which doesn't cost much more anyway.

Still all doable and same problem will face Monorail option, kept them to Nth Sydney and then what? I think should a rail option to Nth beaches every go ahead this is a good option to go green field Metro U/G (seperate from current Cityrail apart from tocketting). Fully automated modern technology approach starting from the city and connecting to another location to run through with easy transfer to Cityrail stations in city.

Cost of construction is roughly the same as building new Cityrail line, but longterm operating costs far less. Will have a far higher average speed and carrying capacity.

Regards
Shane
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Five posts and no Simpsons references?
"Sir Thomas Bent"

Personally I was wondering if they will provide through ticketing and a connection with the Newcastle to Tamworth CityRail services?
  21C123 Chief Train Controller

Location: In the inspection pit checking the "bicycle chains"
Five posts and no Simpsons references?
"Sir Thomas Bent"

Personally I was wondering if they will provide through ticketing and a connection with the Newcastle to Tamworth CityRail services?
"bingley hall"


You show no imagination or grand ambition, Bing!  Why not just carry on with the monorail beyond the Northern Beaches all the way to Tamworth?  It will save those hordes of Tamworth commuters from having to change trains (which would be difficult for them because of all the bags full of groceries from Woolies they have to carry with them for the journey).

Heck, you could even run a mono-branch up to Dorrigo to enable the stock there to run to the new Dorrigo sub-depot at Broadmeadow.  With only one rail to run on, they will only have to restore and maintain half as many wheels, thus making the whole thing cost effective!   ShockedWink
  4426 Chief Commissioner

Location: BUSY GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES

Personally I was wondering if they will provide through ticketing and a connection with the Newcastle to Tamworth CityRail services?
"bingley hall"


Shocked  BING You solved the entire problem!

Adding in a comfort stop at Maitland for 2 hours so the travellers can stock up on there Chardonnay etc before continuing on in a more relaxed state Drunk to Tamworth or The Northern Beaches.

Thats got to be a sure fire money winner for the gummint!

But we may need to have it checked by the resident "top thinkers" when there not on a Gap Year after all we dont want them to over do it either.  Razz
  Redaxe Locomotive Driver

Yeah, monorails are actually outdated technology that has shown its limitations. Carrying capacity is far less and speed, well I've never been on one thats done more than running pace.

As others have said you'd start with a tunnel. Syndey is built on sandstone, why waste this low cost tunnel option. Then as required go viaduct which doesn't cost much more anyway.
carrying capacity.
"RTT_Rules"


I thought they used monorails effectively as a form of mass transit in Japan but I'm not sure if I share your comfort with tunnel building though. I know they're great and its the only way forward to build now in metropolitan Sydney but it seems everytime NSW builds one it ends up massively over budget or a white elephant.
  Syd3642 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
In Japan Monorails are everywhere........

Bring back the Northern Beaches Tram line  Twisted Evil

But as Raichase says Mosmanites and Neutral Bay and 90% of people who live around there will either complain of eye sore or noise and safety. And to think that I live in Neutral Bay Laughing
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Yeah, monorails are actually outdated technology that has shown its limitations. Carrying capacity is far less and speed, well I've never been on one thats done more than running pace.

As others have said you'd start with a tunnel. Syndey is built on sandstone, why waste this low cost tunnel option. Then as required go viaduct which doesn't cost much more anyway.
carrying capacity.
"RTT_Rules"


I thought they used monorails effectively as a form of mass transit in Japan but I'm not sure if I share your comfort with tunnel building though. I know they're great and its the only way forward to build now in metropolitan Sydney but it seems everytime NSW builds one it ends up massively over budget or a white elephant.
"Redaxe"


Japan may have lots of monorails, but most are decades old and I doubt new monorails are being built anywhere in the world at a high rate. Actually wonder how new conmpares with decomissioned monorails. Reason for this is as I mentioned above, they have not met their Jetson era expectations. In some applications they are the best option, such as in cities above streets due to small foot print. But alas many seem to be nothing more than a tourist train ride, ie Sydney. The exceptions as a true transportation medium is like GC Casino, which basically takes shoppers to/from the casino across a busy road.

Also consider the distance, you would be building the worlds longest monorail and it needs to run into the city or useless.

The past state govt's on going list of F ups is not a reason to abandon what can be done well. But going through the tunnels, ECR, not that much over budget and really an issue for designer, not govt. Airport line is a finacial issue with operator not getting forcast numbers.

E-W city by-pass, again I think tunnel is fine, just doesn't make money due to again over estimated numbers etc. go to Brisbane and the same issue exists where the companies doing the forcasting are getting it very wrong. I think once the Airport link tunnel is finshed and has same issue, again that will be it. Future projects will have a different method of estimating numbers.
  johnboy Chief Commissioner

Location: Up the road from Gulgong
In Japan Monorails are everywhere........

Bring back the Northern Beaches Tram line  Twisted Evil

But as Raichase says Mosmanites and Neutral Bay and 90% of people who live around there will either complain of eye sore or noise and safety. And to think that I live in Neutral Bay Laughing
"Syd3642"

Yep, Light Rail is the go for Northern Beaches. They will never get heavy rail and monorail is more unsightly than light rail.

In the end, the NIMBY don't want anything... so STUFF them. They can sit in their dirty traffic jam of Military Road.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
In Japan Monorails are everywhere........
"Syd3642"

Go back to playing with your Pokemon.

The Bloke Down the Pub says there are 10 and the last one was opened 8 years ago - hardly 'everywhere'.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
And there's nothing wrong with the L90 either. The "bendy" bus runs every 15-20 minutes during the week and 30 minutes on weekends. I traveled to Avalon a fair bit and the only minor complaint I have is the small leg room but I can put up with it for 80 minutes.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
In Japan Monorails are everywhere........

Bring back the Northern Beaches Tram line  Twisted Evil

But as Raichase says Mosmanites and Neutral Bay and 90% of people who live around there will either complain of eye sore or noise and safety. And to think that I live in Neutral Bay Laughing
"Syd3642"

Yep, Light Rail is the go for Northern Beaches. They will never get heavy rail and monorail is more unsightly than light rail.

In the end, the NIMBY don't want anything... so STUFF them. They can sit in their dirty traffic jam of Military Road.
"johnboy"


The problem with that side of the fence is that they often oppose things like this in their back yard as it is seen as a means to get low life more easily into their little corner of the world. My parents strongly opposed a bike track along their back fence between house and water on public reserve on central coast. I told them then they will use, "oh no, and why would others", "no one walks" yada yada yada. What did we do 2nd night, walked along bike track to club as you can all drink this way! WTF

Just like the Nth Shore line is one of the most cost effective (well used) rail lines on the network. So will a line to Nth shore and other blue belt areas. Look at WA, Libs opposed the some of the station locations in a few blue areas and those stations have exceeded expectations. If they tried to close thme now all hell would break loose, and I feel there is one well over due station on eastern suburbs line that would go the same way.

Regards
Shane
  drwaddles In need of a breath mint

Location: Newcastle
My parents strongly opposed a bike track along their back fence between house and water on public reserve on central coast. I told them then they will use, "oh no, and why would others", "no one walks" yada yada yada. What did we do 2nd night, walked along bike track to club as you can all drink this way! WTF
"RTT_Rules"


I've read this 3 times and it still doesn't make sense - you been in India too long?  Laughing
  Tonymercury Sir Nigel Gresley

Location: Botany NSW
Repeat after me -

Capacity, Capacity. Capacity/
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
The problem with that side of the fence is that they often oppose things like this in their back yard as it is seen as a means to get low life more easily into their little corner of the world.
"RTT_Rules"


The joke of it is, there are some real ferals on the Northern Beaches too - some of the little turkeys that hang around in the Dee Why/Brookvale/Narraweena area are no better behaved than youth from other suburbs, it's just that these ones have the money and the sense of entitlement that comes from living on the Insular Peninsula. I hate catching the bus late at night when these thugs are around, at least on a train you can change cars to get away from their graffiti, loud music and swearing, but on a bus, you're stuck with 'em...
  Redaxe Locomotive Driver

I know what you are saying about the ferals but you will find them on almost every train line. The Central Coast is especially bad. As for the Northern Beaches I do remember a police officer I know who works in the Dee Why area tell me that Dee Why is known as 'Blacktown by the beach'.

Anyway back on subject, the reason I asked about monorail is one news reporter on the eve of the NSW election said that Sydney was 30 years behind on infrastructure. We all know this backlog is going to take decades to fix so any cost effective transport options/technology that can alleviate congestion should probably be considered.

But there are residential houses along Military Rd so I guess people have a right to complain about the potential noise although they don't say much about those dinosaur aged diesel buses roaring past with the decibals of a jet engine. It makes me think of the poor residents near Pennant Hills Road that have to deal with the constant noise of trucks because a few people would campaign against building the M2/F3 link through Fox valley bush and the Lane Cove National Park. Instead tunnelling has now been considered as the preferred option and that will probably double the price of the motorway link.

I do wonder about the current monorail though, if it was originally built to Darlinghurst along Oxford St and offered cheap fares if it would provide a good alternative to buses in that area.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I know what you are saying about the ferals but you will find them on almost every train line.
"Redaxe"


I realise that, but I was replying to the coment that 'Beaches residents don't want proper mass transit as that might allow the rest of Sydney into 'their' area.
  drwaddles In need of a breath mint

Location: Newcastle
Beacon Hill, Narraweena and Dee Why do have a fair amount of public housing ro former public housing flats.
  Oldfart Chief Commissioner

Location: Right base for BK 11R
Pfffft! Never mind those Mosmanites. Wouldn't spit on their junction if it was on fire.

Expand the good old Cityrail network, I say. Extend the ESRL under the heads with stations at Rose Bay, Watsons Bay, Manly and on up to Mona Vale, maybe even Woy Woy.

The Mosmanites will just have to make do with my proposed underground light rail from there to Nth Sydney, Goat Island, Balmain and Rozelle Bay, with connections to the SLR.

You know it all makes sense!
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
My parents strongly opposed a bike track along their back fence between house and water on public reserve on central coast. I told them then they will use, "oh no, and why would others", "no one walks" yada yada yada. What did we do 2nd night, walked along bike track to club as you can all drink this way! WTF
"RTT_Rules"


I've read this 3 times and it still doesn't make sense - you been in India too long?  Laughing
"drwaddles"


My parents strongly opposed the construction of a walk/bike track along the reserve that runs between their back fence line and water waterway. I told them then they will use it and if not others certainly will and when we were kids there had that been built it would have made getting about alot easier, "oh no, and why would others", "no one walks" yada yada yada. Went to visit last year with my brother, What did we do 2nd night, walked along bike track to club as this way we can all drink and not worring about driving, WTF. My brother and I asked for some spray cans before heading out. Mum said what for, we said Tag the fence, isn't that what you do from the bike track. If looks could kill, but there is also no tagging in the area.

Out of India now, Dubai.

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