Extension of Frankston services to Baxter

 
  toshi Train Controller

Location: Heaven
The Libs have committed $80,000 to a "Pre-Feasability" study into extending the sparks.

http://mornington-peninsula-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/rail-money-rolls-in-crossing-could-be-lifesaver/

Is this just vote buying for a marginal electorate or? Even if the next election is in 2012. However, in saying this we only one By-Election from a Hung Parliament. If this were to happen in a Liberal seat in South Eastern Melbourne, perhaps this could ensure their survival?

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  heisdeadjim Chief Commissioner

I never knew it was on the radar.

Does patronage compel it?

Could you increase frequency simply by running more Sprinters?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The next scheduled State Election will be in November, 2014.
  toshi Train Controller

Location: Heaven
The next scheduled State Election will be in November, 2014.


Yes, that's what I meant lol
  Speed Minister for Railways

Jim probably didn't know that a railway line to Avalon Airport was on the radar until late last year either.

Where there has been a railway line, there will inevitably be talk of restoring it to use. Mildura, Healesville and Whittlesea are the obvious examples.

The diesel lines off the suburban system also attract speculation of electrification. Sunbury is doing ahead but both the Sunbury and Melton lines differ from the Stony Point one in that the lines share the tracks with regular inter-urbans.

It would also mean that Baxter was a suburban station convenient to the freeway. Peninsula residents could drive there to catch a train and avoid Frankston. Extending to Baxter could thus be an alternative to building more car parking in Frankston for Peninsula and Western Port passengers.
  Kerpal Deputy Commissioner

Pre-feasibility study == half of F all.

It's a good idea to extend the Frankston line to Baxter though.  When it's done, the rest of the Stony Point line can be replaced with a more frequent bus service.
  712M Chief Commissioner

I don't think it would be worth it unless they duplicated the line and added a new station at Langwarrin. However in the short term it would be good to see some Sprinter short workings to Baxter to fill in the long gaps.
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
[quote="toshi"]The Libs have committed $80,000 to a "Pre-Feasability" study into extending the sparks.


  jdekorte Deputy Commissioner

Location: Near Caulfield Station
Wasn't there a plan to build a super stabling yard at Baxter in between the Mornington Branch and the Stony Point Branch similar to Craigieburn & Epping?  And hasn't the new freeway been planned with appropriate clearance at the said location so that electrification can take place easily?  Personally I wouldn't mind having an electrified train down that way as I go to Uni at Monash which is near Leawarra (try-hard) station.  I would assume that any electrified line would include grade separating at McMahons Rd.  More Sprinters to Baxter or Somerville would be good in the short term though as the existing timetable is atrocious.

In theory, and asking hypothetically, how hard would this project be?
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
Wasn't there a plan to build a super stabling yard at Baxter in between the Mornington Branch and the Stony Point Branch similar to Craigieburn & Epping?  
"jdekorte"


Yup, the land is there and reserved.


And hasn't the new freeway been planned with appropriate clearance at the said location so that electrification can take place easily?
"jdekorte"


Yup.


Personally I wouldn't mind having an electrified train down that way as I go to Uni at Monash which is near Leawarra (try-hard) station.
"jdekorte"


Leawarra. What a platform. Rolling Eyes


I would assume that any electrified line would include grade separating at McMahons Rd.  More Sprinters to Baxter or Somerville would be good in the short term though as the existing timetable is atrocious.

In theory, and asking hypothetically, how hard would this project be?
"jdekorte"


Given that Somerville is not used for crosses, I'd say that's replicating the patterns of VLP of single tracking any line where crosses can be eliminated. In the main, this is what has been done, somewhat reminiscent of South Geelong-Warrnambool.

Resolve to have a place for crossing trains, and you might see some changes, is the only option I see in the crystal ball.
  toshi Train Controller

Location: Heaven
574M [quote] toshi wrote: ‹ Contract ›
The Libs have committed $80,000 to a "Pre-Feasability" study into extending the sparks.

>
  SteamtoStay Chief Commissioner

Location: Building floorplates
My opinions on the lot:

1. Electrification was thought to require grade separation of all intermediate level crossings, but the Sunbury project thankfully provides a precedant against that. Sure, grade separation is nice, but it is expensive and not always necessary.

1A. However, if electrification were to occur, I'd prefer to wire as far as Somerville rather than Baxter, because Somerville has a greater local population (I'm told) and because the only reason to run wires to Baxter instead (other than the sidings and the general cost cutting) is to allow for a future Mornington Line restoration. I've run the figures and worked out that a train to Mornington East via Baxter would take 15 minutes each way to/from Frankston, but a bus running north/south along Nepean Highway does the same job in only a slightly longer running time, serves a lot more people along the way, costs close to nothing to create because it's already there and costs a lot less to upgrade to a more frequenct service.

2. Restoring Langwarrin station in its original position would be an absolute waste. Move it south, to Robinsons Road, if at all. But fix the bloody local buses first, in particular the 772-776 range. They're pathetic. In fact, that applies to most buses on the Mornington Peninsula.

3. Frequency on the line cannot be increased currently, because the signalling system does not allow for it (although the former electric staff and train staff and ticket system did). The easiest solution is to add two signals at (say) Somerville, one in each direction, and have that as a dividing section.

4. If any part of the line is to have a passing loop incorporated, my preference is full duplication from up of Tyabb to long Island Junction. However, it should be done in such a way that both lines are bidirectional, so that it can be used as both a passing loop and as a holding track for the Long Island freight trains (assuming they stay on broad gauge after the E-Gate residential project abolishes the steel train gauge transfer sidings).
  T411 Moderator

Location: Somewhere
there was mention in the drivers union meeting minutes about 6 months ago of soil samples having been taken at Baxter.

I was chatting to a driver recently who is seconded to "projects."  Baxter is actually on the cards and has been for a few years, however it has been pushed down the list a bit.
  hot-axle-box Junior Train Controller

If it does go ahead Frankston will be a shadow of its former self, ending up as premium version of kananook with no need for the yard.

About time they started thinking about this, there is a definite need on the peninsula now and if they add a maintenance facility it would be good for employment down here.
Kerpal wrote:
It's a good idea to extend the Frankston line to Baxter though. When it's done, the rest of the Stony Point line can be replaced with a more frequent bus service.


Why would you do that! the government at the time thought that was a great idea and stuffed up. Mornington lost the battle to keep the train going but to the credit of the westernport community they managed to keep it going.

1. The gunzels would've had nothing to foam over down here.

2. The replace it with a bus attitude sh$%ts me to tears - very shortsighted.

Hopefully this is a new era for railways on the peninsula Smile
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
Last I checked, Frankston South, Langwarrin and Somerville's populace had approximately three teeth between them.

And even taking into account that the majority of residents of thise three suburbs are mouth-breathing scrotes, they'd be hard put to match some of the stupid that's emerging with gunzels foaming about sticking up 1500V wires to every half-asred housing estate.
  tomohawk Chief Commissioner

Location: Getting The Met to get around
Last I checked, Frankston South, Langwarrin and Somerville's populace had approximately three teeth between them.

And even taking into account that the majority of residents of thise three suburbs are mouth-breathing scrotes, they'd be hard put to match some of the stupid that's emerging with gunzels foaming about sticking up 1500V wires to every half-asred housing estate.
"Sir Thomas Bent"


Metro are quite interested in a sparks maintenance depot down there to replace all the current Frankston line stabling locations (except presumably Mordialloc with its new yard, which is an appropriate location for mid-line storage).
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
As a depot; sure.  Nowhere else you could concentrate a big yard.

Purely for people, less so.
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
Last I checked, Frankston South, Langwarrin and Somerville's populace had approximately three teeth between them.

And even taking into account that the majority of residents of thise three suburbs are mouth-breathing scrotes, they'd be hard put to match some of the stupid that's emerging with gunzels foaming about sticking up 1500V wires to every half-asred housing estate.
"Sir Thomas Bent"


Baxter stabling facility has been on the cards for quite some time; first it was Leawarra stabling, now Baxter. It'll be like Craigieburn - first, three sidings, then six, then twelve, then a wash facility, then a three road maintenance facility.
  T411 Moderator

Location: Somewhere
Another reason baxter was being considered was because it is close to the new freeway being built. A secondary aim was to give commuters travelling from down the peninsula the option of leaving the freeway at Baxter and catching a train from there, rather then keep driving into Frankston and beyond.
  tranzitjim Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Why do we not do a proper job while we are there at it?

We should electrify all the way down to Stoney Point too?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
What in the name of Mazeppa is a "pre-feasability" study?
This has the stamp of Sir Humphrey Appleby all over it.
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
What in the name of Mazeppa is a "pre-feasability" study?
This has the stamp of Sir Humphrey Appleby all over it.
"Valvegear"
It's where you give someone $80,000 to tell you to do what you already have, also gives a sense of doing something as most people skim past the important words of "pre-feasibility study", and someone to blame that's not you if it becomes unpopular.
  574M White Guru

Location: Shepparton
What in the name of Mazeppa is a "pre-feasability" study?
This has the stamp of Sir Humphrey Appleby all over it.
"Valvegear"
It's where you give someone $80,000 to tell you to do what you already have, also gives a sense of doing something as most people skim past the important words of "pre-feasibility study", and someone to blame that's not you if it becomes unpopular.
"Sir Thomas Bent"


Oh, I think $80,000 is enough to buy some gum boots and send a troupe of execs down to Baxter for the day, stomp around in the long grass, pronounce the ground sodden and wet, and maybe, the day after they can go and dig a few holes nearby Langwarrin Swamp to see if the stanchions will stay up or acquire a pronounced lean-to, as it were.

On a more serious note, as I said before, $80,000 won't buy much except pay for some people to be allocated to an exploratory proposal and lay out the scope of the project on paper. Throw in a few field trips and a report and that's about all you might get.  You'd have to use FOI to find out anything about it afterwards, although.
  drwaddles In need of a breath mint

Location: Newcastle
Baxter? Is that you? Bark twice if you're in Milwaukee.
  Rodo Chief Commissioner

Location: Southern Riverina
With electrification at Baxter it would seem logical to extend it through to Mornington. The present Huilles Road terminus would do for the 1 to 1 scale model toy steam train and the suburbans could terminate at a buffer stop on main Highway. An hourly railmotor to Stony Point would complete the show and perhaps the steam train would be purposeless but then it could run anywhere in Victoria.

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