3801 Boiler Update

 
  tezza Chief Commissioner

If the boiler is found to not fit, it could be substituted with the Barrington Womble portable offering.

http://www.forbesaust.com.au/steam_specialbuilds.html

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  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
If the boiler is found to not fit, it could be substituted with the Barrington Womble portable offering.
"tezza"
Why not a cardboard replica?
  allambee Chief Train Controller

Why not a cardboard replica?
Valvegear
I prefer a gas turbine conversion

  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
If the boiler is found to not fit, it could be substituted with the Barrington Womble portable offering.

http://www.forbesaust.com.au/steam_specialbuilds.html
tezza
Well, aren't you are a funny one. I listed that particular company as a potential firm in Australia who would have the capability to build a locomotive boiler. A portable is a locomotive design boiler after all. I'd be interested to know exactly why you think they wouldn't be able to build a C38 boiler. Give them the blueprints, and I reckon they could.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I'll agree with Barrington, it was a serious alternitive suggested. We'll need more boilers in the future. That company at least can provide.

Has the boiler shipped ?

Regards,
David Head
  allambee Chief Train Controller

I'll agree with Barrington, it was a serious alternitive suggested. We'll need more boilers in the future. That company at least can provide.
dthead
To my knowledge Forbes don't have a large fabrication facility and supply package boilers which are sometimes imported from places like China. They certify them here to met the local codes. They might be able to get a small locomotive boiler built, but the fabrication work would be subbied out.
There are at 2 pressure vessel fabricators in Sydney + possibly 1 in the Southern highlands who have the capability to fabricate a boiler of the size of a 38 class.
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
To my knowledge Forbes don't have a large fabrication facility and supply package boilers which are sometimes imported from places like China. They certify them here to met the local codes. They might be able to get a small locomotive boiler built, but the fabrication work would be subbied out.
There are at 2 pressure vessel fabricators in Sydney + possibly 1 in the Southern highlands who have the capability to fabricate a boiler of the size of a 38 class.
allambee
Ipswich Railway Workshops still has the ability to fabricate a loco boiler so perhaps they could also carry out the work, slow but the standard of work carried out there leaves nothing to be desired.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Allambee & Mufreight thsnkyou for more  real ideas, Alot of us gunzels thought Australia could not build these anymore.

Regards,
David Head
  NSWGR 3827 Deputy Commissioner

Location: South of the Border
Another Alternative

http://www.wesknm.com.au/
  allambee Chief Train Controller

Another Alternative

http://www.wesknm.com.au/
NSWGR 3827
I don't like dealing with Malaysian companies
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
To my knowledge Forbes don't have a large fabrication facility and supply package boilers which are sometimes imported from places like China. They certify them here to met the local codes. They might be able to get a small locomotive boiler built, but the fabrication work would be subbied out.
There are at 2 pressure vessel fabricators in Sydney + possibly 1 in the Southern highlands who have the capability to fabricate a boiler of the size of a 38 class.
allambee
Thanks for the sensible reply. I was going to suggest Ipswich Workshops, but somebody has beaten me to it.
  locojoe67 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gen X purgatory/urban Joh-land
I wouldn't count on Ippy as a source of materials. As per the rp conversation re 1051 they seem to be downsizing, and maintaining the existing fleet takes all the manpower they have.

DD17 1051 is currently under overhaul, can't voucher for boiler condition so dont know if a new one is being made or not. Afaik, the last boiler made there was some years ago. It was destined for C17 1000, but that seems to have been shelved. As I understand it, SDSR did a deal for that one and fitted it to 971 some years ago.

Qr has been exceptional in supporting its heritage steam fleet, and I hope that continues. Though changing circumstances mean a number of the fleet are seemingly out of service. Hmmmmm.......
  SJB Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney, NSW
Incorrect, the two C17 boilers where commissioned for both 971 and 974, a new boiler for 1000 was never considered at that time.

DD17 1051 is receiving  a new boiler which is already well on the way to being completed.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I understand that Ipswich workshops did submit a tender or quote for 01's new boiler as did a couple of other Australian companies, not sure why they were rejected, but with the boiler build for 3265, it showed that a local NSW company had the ability to build a locomotive boiler here.

At that time, China still had the ability to build new boilers, which I believe would have been a viable alternative to the German experience, especially as one of their heavy steam workshops was still doing major overhauls then. That has changed today, to the extent that the factory itself does not do any overhauls but has a qualified team that travels to systems where they overhaul them in situ.

One thing is that China is a lot closer to Australia than Germany as it would have allowed much cheaper & faster flights there to carry out inspections.
  locojoe67 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gen X purgatory/urban Joh-land
Thanks Archer.
  allambee Chief Train Controller

I understand that Ipswich workshops did submit a tender or quote for 01's new boiler as did a couple of other Australian companies, not sure why they were rejected, but with the boiler build for 3265, it showed that a local NSW company had the ability to build a locomotive boiler here.

At that time, China still had the ability to build new boilers, which I believe would have been a viable alternative to the German experience, especially as one of their heavy steam workshops was still doing major overhauls then. That has changed today, to the extent that the factory itself does not do any overhauls but has a qualified team that travels to systems where they overhaul them in situ.

One thing is that China is a lot closer to Australia than Germany as it would have allowed much cheaper & faster flights there to carry out inspections.
a6et
One disadvantage the Chinese have is the inspection and weld certification and language problems. Sure they can be brought up to speed with welding to AS standards. It was probably judged to be all too hard to do and I'm sure there was no Chinese fabrication considered. And then there is the blatant racist attitude about Chinese manufacture and engineering that exists in some sectors of the Australian engineering community - the people who have no experience working in Asia. The EXACT same attitudes Australians had when Japanese and Korean cars where first marketed in Australia. We all know what happened there, a dead Australian car industry and crippled local manufacturing sector.
True, you can get rubbish in China, but he old story you get what you pay for is so true  - quality will cost extra $.

I would love to see the tender evaluation for 3801's boiler, something only the SMH and a FOI would have a chance of doing.
Like I said earlier, there will be more public scrutiny from the likes of the SMH if the 2nd try boiler has problems like the 1st.
  MC3801 Train Controller

Some more news on 3801's overhaul on the NSWGR C38 Class Facebook page:

To put a saga to rest, one of the admins has gone to amazing lengths to determine the authenticity of the photos posted of the boiler in Germany. He reports categorically that the pictures are real and were taken on November 7.

Further this admin had worked for the Australian Trade Commission and is therefore in a position to follow the boilers movements.

After so much disappointment it is fully understandable that the officials won't want to make any comment until the boiler arrives, has been checked and ready for reassembly. We respect that.

All going well reassembly will begin by Easter.

It's been a difficult road. Perserverence has paid off so let's now look forward to the return of the locomotive.

Some time ago one of our members posted he had spoken to the photographer of the infamous photo. We wish to emphasise it wasn't a case of not believing him but given all the rumor about 3801 we needed to check.

So we are cautiously optimistic now and we thank the ORH and its successors in addition to the RTM for sticking by this. It looks like its about to pay off.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Well said MC3801. Plenty of people have jumped on the bandwagon with their 20/20 hindsight, saying this and that should have been done differently. Well, it wasn't. What we can do is look forward to the locomotives return, and learn from mistakes made so that these things never happen again. So many people are so quick to forget that without government fund injection, this would have likely been a pipe dream. The extra time spent waiting for the boiler has ensured the rest of the locomotive will be in the best condition possible, as the Australian team have had nothing but time to work on every little thing. I'm excited to see 3801 back in steam again, further enhancing the status of heritage rail in NSW.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Well said MC3801. Plenty of people have jumped on the bandwagon with their 20/20 hindsight, saying this and that should have been done differently. Well, it wasn't. What we can do is look forward to the locomotives return, and learn from mistakes made so that these things never happen again. So many people are so quick to forget that without government fund injection, this would have likely been a pipe dream. The extra time spent waiting for the boiler has ensured the rest of the locomotive will be in the best condition possible, as the Australian team have had nothing but time to work on every little thing. I'm excited to see 3801 back in steam again, further enhancing the status of heritage rail in NSW.
Raichase
I second that.

Rod
  MC3801 Train Controller

This news was put up yesterday on the 38 Class Facebook Page:

The ship carrying 3801s new boiler departed Bremerhaven a few weeks ago, destination Port Botany. It is due to arrive end January.

Now EVERYTHING has to be checked, checked and checked. Then the holes drilled for the streamline casing.

Our best guesstimate is reassembly will begin mid year and completion around 12 months later.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Our best guesstimate is reassembly will begin mid year and completion around 12 months later.
MC3801
With all due respect, is this Facebook page run by people involved in the restoration, or by enthusiasts who don't have any stake in the restoration beyond standing trackside?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
This news was put up yesterday on the 38 Class Facebook Page:

The ship carrying 3801s new boiler departed Bremerhaven a few weeks ago, destination Port Botany. It is due to arrive end January.

Now EVERYTHING has to be checked, checked and checked. Then the holes drilled for the streamline casing.

Our best guesstimate is reassembly will begin mid year and completion around 12 months later.
MC3801
Surely one does not drill holes in a boiler to attach anything extraneous like 'tin' casing.
  NSWGR 3827 Deputy Commissioner

Location: South of the Border
Surely one does not drill holes in a boiler to attach anything extraneous like 'tin' casing.
YM-Mundrabilla
Threaded holes for mounting such things are quite common in locomotive Boilers.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Surely one does not drill holes in a boiler to attach anything extraneous like 'tin' casing.
YM-Mundrabilla
In John Thompsons 38cl book there are photo's in Clyde Engineering shops of streamlined 38's being built including the frame sections needed for the cowling, how else would you expect the cowling & boiler sheeting to be fixed?  Chewing gum or blue tack?

While much of the coverings are lapped with boiler bands holding them secure, the bands are anchored with bolts or rivets.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
No even I do not recommend chewing gum or blue tak.
Obviously wrongly, I assumed that in this day and age welded brackets would be used.

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