Southern Rail Blog - Uboats, Xplorer, Vlocity, tank cars, QR Things, etc

 
  Hendo Deputy Commissioner



Terry,

I am sure once you purchase your rake of QR Hoppers you will be impressed to see that this has been fixed to a width in line with the NMRA standard. One of the benefits of getting pre-production samples.

Regards

Phil
"fairfieldqld"


He won't be impressed as you haven't adopted HIS standard that he publishes under AMRA's name.


Cheers,
Hendo

Sponsored advertisement

  fairfieldqld Locomotive Fireman



Terry,

I am sure once you purchase your rake of QR Hoppers you will be impressed to see that this has been fixed to a width in line with the NMRA standard. One of the benefits of getting pre-production samples.

Regards

Phil
"fairfieldqld"


He won't be impressed as you haven't adopted HIS standard that he publishes under AMRA's name.


Cheers,
Hendo
"Hendo"


Hendo spot on Laughing
  foxdemon Train Controller



Terry,

I am sure once you purchase your rake of QR Hoppers you will be impressed to see that this has been fixed to a width in line with the NMRA standard. One of the benefits of getting pre-production samples.

Regards

Phil
"fairfieldqld"



He won't be impressed as you haven't adopted HIS standard that he publishes under AMRA's name.


Cheers,
Hendo
"Hendo"


Hendo spot on Laughing
"fairfieldqld"



Terry has been doing a good job sorting out a set of standards for the Australian modelling scene. The NMRA standards are good, but some things suit US prototype but not local prototype modelling. Loading guage and carriage weight standards being two obvious examples. There is a clear need for local standards to take into account the smaller loading gauge, buffers and their effects on track radius recommendations, wagon weighs with particular regard to short four wheel wagons, and so forth.

So why not let Terry get on with it? If we get behind him and support his endevour, the sooner appropriate local standards can be established and the sooner importers and manufacturers can get the relevant specifications with which to design their models.

To not get behind Terry, but rather to knock him like jealous children, only serves to retard the advance of local modelling art. Consider the debate over axle lengths around circa 1980. There was no resolution and 30 years later we must contend with a wide variety of axle lengths. Without supporting Terry, we will find the Australian modelling scene well behind best practice in 25 years time. Future modellers will curse us for our inability to resolve standards issues in a timely and effective manner.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga

To not get behind Terry, but rather to knock him like jealous children, only serves to retard the advance of local modelling art. Consider the debate over axle lengths around circa 1980. There was no resolution and 30 years later we must contend with a wide variety of axle lengths. Without supporting Terry, we will find the Australian modelling scene well behind best practice in 25 years time. Future modellers will curse us for our inability to resolve standards issues in a timely and effective manner.
"foxdemon"


Gee whiz Sad  spoilt children?
Our children will curse us.......  A little bit emotive eh?

Really now this is a load of rubbish Sad

The NMRA standards are a World standard and as such prevent things from happening rather than cause problems

I think you have it all wrong!

Lets do what the O gauger's have done and match scales to track gauge eh??

So lets even  drop it down a couple of notches then?

Let Terry have his  "ego trip"  and his NSW standards
and someone else can set up Victorian standards after all who would ever want to run the two systems side by side.. eh memories of   real time   6 -1/2 inches at Albury??

In fact I am modelling the border region, so I can have my own standards as well !!


Now this is what leads to chaos!!  Why make a standard that is different to the NMRA standard which is followed in many places already.
Remember we  need to deal with European standards already Sad

We saw the trouble this caused 30 years ago when Lima and Hornby started making Australian stuff to that standard .. pizza cutters anyone?
Dunny lid couplings?
At least NMRA gave us a standard plastic horn which led to a changeover kadee coupler, remember?
I remember the work involved converting dunny lids to kadees, if you don't Wink
Are you trying to tell the World accepted NMRA standards are defective?

Why would Australia who use a majority of USA designed equipment on the real railways think they need their own standards??

Far from being childish to resist an Aussie standard, it is Childish to suggest the NMRA, and so the yanks got it wrong  Very Happy

If it aint broke it is plain childish to set up a new standard that makes changes for the sake of changes.

Imagine what the Chinese are going to do, when they have to work three or four standards out in HO ?
Already we hear of manufacturers complaining about Chinese engineers saying Yes Yes Yes, and then quietly ignoring the requests Wink

Cheers
Rod


  a6et Minister for Railways



Terry,

I am sure once you purchase your rake of QR Hoppers you will be impressed to see that this has been fixed to a width in line with the NMRA standard. One of the benefits of getting pre-production samples.

Regards

Phil
"fairfieldqld"



He won't be impressed as you haven't adopted HIS standard that he publishes under AMRA's name.


Cheers,
Hendo
"Hendo"


Hendo spot on Laughing
"fairfieldqld"



Terry has been doing a good job sorting out a set of standards for the Australian modelling scene. The NMRA standards are good, but some things suit US prototype but not local prototype modelling. Loading guage and carriage weight standards being two obvious examples. There is a clear need for local standards to take into account the smaller loading gauge, buffers and their effects on track radius recommendations, wagon weighs with particular regard to short four wheel wagons, and so forth.

So why not let Terry get on with it? If we get behind him and support his endevour, the sooner appropriate local standards can be established and the sooner importers and manufacturers can get the relevant specifications with which to design their models.

To not get behind Terry, but rather to knock him like jealous children, only serves to retard the advance of local modelling art. Consider the debate over axle lengths around circa 1980. There was no resolution and 30 years later we must contend with a wide variety of axle lengths. Without supporting Terry, we will find the Australian modelling scene well behind best practice in 25 years time. Future modellers will curse us for our inability to resolve standards issues in a timely and effective manner.
"foxdemon"


The problem with all of this is that its fine for new modellers to go down different paths, but what about those who have tried to build up their layouts over the years, & get lamblasted for their efforts by the denigrating of them & what they are & have done.  Its one thing to promote a standard, that may or may not have advantages over those that exist in the model world, but its another thing to belittle the advances made over the years, & those who use them, a bit of respect towards others with different points of view certainly would go a long way towards maybe getting others onside.

I would imagine that there are modellers on RP, who are not modelling Australian outline, so how do they fit into this, should they have to accept the AMRA standards instead of the more recognised & accepted standards? & what of those who have decided to go further & model to the finer P87 standards, to which provide a more realistic approach to modellers than even those promoted by Terry, & dare I even suggest that the AMRA standards would be akin to operating with steam roller wheels compared to the P87 standards, to which Terry has said on RP that they are not needed as the AMRA standards are good enough, or words to that affect.

Again he is promoting & all but demanding that everyone models in accord with what he considers correct. Its also acknowledged by most that he has done a lot of good, in some of the areas that you mention, but maybe if he can only realise that his view is not the only view & that his is not the only one that is correct.  Model Railways is about enjoyment of the hobby, & for me & I think the vast majority of modellers out there, enjoyment is in how they are modelling & how they achieve the results they are & have attained to in the hobby, & that is what matters.


  Btone Locomotive Fireman

Did anyone see whether anything was announced at today's exhibition in Newcastle?
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Into the time machine to bring you tomorrows news today Very Happy
More unannounced QR stuff now announced (!)  http://www.southernrailmodels.com.au/article/21st-august-news-release
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner


To not get behind Terry, but rather to knock him like jealous children, only serves to retard the advance of local modelling art. Consider the debate over axle lengths around circa 1980. There was no resolution and 30 years later we must contend with a wide variety of axle lengths. Without supporting Terry, we will find the Australian modelling scene well behind best practice in 25 years time. Future modellers will curse us for our inability to resolve standards issues in a timely and effective manner.
"foxdemon"


Gee whiz Sad  spoilt children?
Our children will curse us.......  A little bit emotive eh?

Really now this is a load of rubbish Sad

The NMRA standards are a World standard and as such prevent things from happening rather than cause problems

I think you have it all wrong!

Lets do what the O gauger's have done and match scales to track gauge eh??

So lets even  drop it down a couple of notches then?

Let Terry have his  "ego trip"  and his NSW standards
and someone else can set up Victorian standards after all who would ever want to run the two systems side by side.. eh memories of   real time   6 -1/2 inches at Albury??

In fact I am modelling the border region, so I can have my own standards as well !!


Now this is what leads to chaos!!  Why make a standard that is different to the NMRA standard which is followed in many places already.
Remember we  need to deal with European standards already Sad

We saw the trouble this caused 30 years ago when Lima and Hornby started making Australian stuff to that standard .. pizza cutters anyone?
Dunny lid couplings?
At least NMRA gave us a standard plastic horn which led to a changeover kadee coupler, remember?
I remember the work involved converting dunny lids to kadees, if you don't Wink
Are you trying to tell the World accepted NMRA standards are defective?

Why would Australia who use a majority of USA designed equipment on the real railways think they need their own standards??

Far from being childish to resist an Aussie standard, it is Childish to suggest the NMRA, and so the yanks got it wrong  Very Happy

If it aint broke it is plain childish to set up a new standard that makes changes for the sake of changes.

Imagine what the Chinese are going to do, when they have to work three or four standards out in HO ?
Already we hear of manufacturers complaining about Chinese engineers saying Yes Yes Yes, and then quietly ignoring the requests Wink

Cheers
Rod

"comtrain"


Rod,

Some facts.

Fact 1.
The most popular track used in Australia is Peco.

Fact 2.
Peco turnouts do not use with the NMRA check gauge, they use the same check as the AMRA standard and NORP NEM.

Fact 3.
Mixing standards with different check gauges results in derailments at crossings.

Fact4.
The new AMRA standard corrects the mistakes of the past. (The NMRA changed it's check gauge causing the incompatibility with Peco RTR turnouts)

Fact 5.
Manufacturers wheels within the AMRA limits run without derailment on Peco track. The same cannot be guaranteed for wheels using the NMRA check gauge.

Fact 6.
Kadee couplers are not to any NMRA standard and horn hook couplers were never popular with Australian prototype manufacturers.

Fact 7.
NMRA weight RP is to heavy for many Australian and US models to pull prototype loads up prototype grades.

Fact 8.
Australian prototype railways have their own standards, different from US standards in many areas, loading gauge is an obvious example. See my web page for an Australian prototype flange profile.

Fact 10.
The dunny seat coupler has never been an AMRA standard.

Fact 11.
SDS used the AMRA standard to design their wheels, Eureka and the latest Austrains models are within the AMRA limits. No problems with derailments on RTR track.

Fact 12.
It's easier to build fine scale  track to the AMRA standard compared to the NMRA standard.

Fact 13.
The NMRA is not the only model railway world standard setting organisation. AMRA is by far the largest national smaller scale Australian model railway organisation, and has developed Australian model railway standards. There are numerous non NMRA module standards, and numerous UK and European non NMRA wheel and track standards.

Fact 14.
The AMRA standards cover Victorian  prototypes. The NMRA standards do not.


Terry Flynn

AMRA standards http://www.amra.asn.au/standards.htm

http://angelfire.com/clone/rail/index.html

H0 wagon weight and locomotive tractive effort estimates

DC control circuit diagrams

H0 scale track and wheel standards

Any scale track standard and wheel spread sheet















  Draffa Chief Commissioner

Into the time machine to bring you tomorrows news today Very Happy
More unannounced QR stuff now announced (!)  http://www.southernrailmodels.com.au/article/21st-august-news-release
"Poath Junction"
I just got the QSM letter in my imnbox as well.  Very disappointed that the project isn't continuing, but if it's not viable, it's not viable.  On the bright side, I can now afford two. Very Happy
  hiddeous Junior Train Controller

Location: Brisneyland
Into the time machine to bring you tomorrows news today Very Happy
More unannounced QR stuff now announced (!)  http://www.southernrailmodels.com.au/article/21st-august-news-release
"Poath Junction"
I just got the QSM letter in my imnbox as well.  Very disappointed that the project isn't continuing, but if it's not viable, it's not viable.  On the bright side, I can now afford two. Very Happy
"Draffa"


ditto except i'm thinking 3 car set rather than 2 Smile
  Draffa Chief Commissioner

Yeah, I had a three-car set on order from QSM.  Modern brass is something I can't justify buying, but I made an exception for the 2000's.  A set of those running around on the layout would have been something of the 'Pride of The Fleet'.
So now a couple of sets in fantastic plastic. Smile
  QR-INTERAIL Deputy Commissioner

Location: Where else, but Queensland
Same here Draffa, I couldn't justify the cost of the brass 2000 Class, although it would have looked very nice.

However one or two 2000 Class RM with an additional 2050 Class trailer in plastic RTR will definitely be on the cards. Looking very much forward to this development.  8)
  DQ2004 Chief Commissioner

Location: Hobart -where the rain has lumps in it
Judging from how well Southern Rail replicated the U-boats, I think we can be confident we won't be missing out on much with plastic 2000 class railcars instead of brass ones.
It certainly changes them from being unaffordable to suddenly being on my 'To buy List'.

I do feel sorry for QSM in that their planned projects have not worked out.
It is strange that apparently the market is not big enough for a brass run of 50 (?) models but it is big enough for an RTR model of over 1000 models!
But obviously even with brass being comparatively cheaper these days it is still a lot more for just one model and not everyone can afford it.

I know that if I was collecting for only one railway and era then brass would be affordable.  But unfortunately I just can't control myself...!

Regards,

Toby
  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner



Terry,

I am sure once you purchase your rake of QR Hoppers you will be impressed to see that this has been fixed to a width in line with the NMRA standard. One of the benefits of getting pre-production samples.

Regards

Phil
"fairfieldqld"


He won't be impressed as you haven't adopted HIS standard that he publishes under AMRA's name.


Cheers,
Hendo
"Hendo"


Hey Hendo,

Can you read my mind? Amazing.

Guess what,the NMRA wheel width also complies with the AMRA standard as well. Of course if the wheel width had been properly defined at the drawing stage the pilot model would have had better looking wheels. It's clear Southern Models did not properly specify their wheels, not only on the new QR items but generally on their items. Its no surprise really, considering the number of people who push NMRA standards without understanding the relationship between the wheel and rail. Most of those people promoting NMRA standard wheels for RTR in Australia don't even use turnouts to the NMRA standard. How about you Hendo, what turnouts do you use?

Terry Flynn

AMRA standards http://www.amra.asn.au/standards.htm

http://angelfire.com/clone/rail/index.html

H0 wagon weight and locomotive tractive effort estimates

DC control circuit diagrams

H0 scale track and wheel standards

Any scale track standard and wheel spread sheet



  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Please go to this thread:  http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11371122.htm
to discuss the Brisbane AMRA show & the date issues. Keep this thread re the models, please.
"Mod"




Blog update today. http://www.southernrailmodels.com.au/article/23rd-september-2012-exhibitions--project-updates
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Blog update 26/9 with QLD hoppers http://www.southernrailmodels.com.au/article/26th-september-what-do-you-reckon
  Draffa Chief Commissioner

Bank account is gonna get hit. Smile
  QR-INTERAIL Deputy Commissioner

Location: Where else, but Queensland
Bank account is gonna get hit. Smile
"Draffa"

I'm going to get in trouble from the OIC Homefront! Surprised

Seriously though, those test shots look great, especially like the internal detail and the patched out decals.

Good times ahead for the QR modeller. We are getting spoilt lately, QR Steam, highly detail kits, and now RTR.

A big well done to all involved.





  NSWGR1855 Deputy Commissioner

Bank account is gonna get hit. Smile
"Draffa"

I'm going to get in trouble from the OIC Homefront! Surprised

Seriously though, those test shots look great, especially like the internal detail and the patched out decals.

Good times ahead for the QR modeller. We are getting spoilt lately, QR Steam, highly detail kits, and now RTR.

A big well done to all involved.




"QR-INTERAIL"


The RTR QR models are still behind the better RTR models as far as wheels go. It looks like Southern Models have used Lionel to design their QR model wheels. Then again their NSW H0 tank wagon's spoked wheels are not any better, in this later case extra dirt attracting diecast treads, another throw back to the tin plate era.

Terry Flynn

AMRA standards http://www.amra.asn.au/standards.htm

http://angelfire.com/clone/rail/index.html

H0 wagon weight and locomotive tractive effort estimates

DC control circuit diagrams

H0 scale track and wheel standards

Any scale track standard and wheel spread sheet

http://www.imra.org.au/



  Draffa Chief Commissioner

I think we'd all be better off if Tezza made a hostile takeover of RTR mobs and just did things his way from the outset.
  a6et Minister for Railways


I think we'd all be better off if Tezza made a hostile takeover of RTR mobs and just did things his way from the outset.
"Draffa"


Sheesh!

  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Thought I'd wait a week to see if anyone else passed on details of the 12th Oct update.
http://www.southernrailmodels.com.au/article/12th-october-ipswich-exhibition--project-updates


  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
Thought I'd wait a week to see if anyone else passed on details of the 12th Oct update.
http://www.southernrailmodels.com.au/article/12th-october-ipswich-exhibition--project-updates

"Poath Junction"


Not to be confused with todays update! http://www.southernrailmodels.com.au/article/20th-october-rail-tank-cars--u-boats--vlocity-etc
  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
25/10 update http://www.southernrailmodels.com.au/article/25th-october-ipswich-update
Pics of the QLD hoppers.
  fairfieldqld Locomotive Fireman

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