New El Zorro Service to Tocumwal?

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I cannot understand how it could have been said to have had "some very good business" with figures like these. Anybody can run a business if he doesn't pay his bills, for as long as creditors let him get away with it.

Business doesn't just mean getting the work; it means getting the work, making enough money to pay the bills, and having some left over for a roof over the head and three meals a day. In my opinion, El Zorro was a latter day business train wreck.

Others have succeeded, so it shows it can be done. El Zorro failed lamentably, and the creditors, with the exception of employees who had nowhere to turn, got what was coming to them for their appalling lack of financial control.
Valvegear

Good chiefs don;t necessarily make good restaurant managers.  I still have a copy of the financials.  The business was very viable had a number of key changes have been made.

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  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
If it was viable it wouldn't have needed any changes. You don't change things if they are good normally.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
I cannot understand how it could have been said to have had "some very good business" with figures like these. Anybody can run a business if he doesn't pay his bills, for as long as creditors let him get away with it.

Business doesn't just mean getting the work; it means getting the work, making enough money to pay the bills, and having some left over for a roof over the head and three meals a day. In my opinion, El Zorro was a latter day business train wreck.

Others have succeeded, so it shows it can be done. El Zorro failed lamentably, and the creditors, with the exception of employees who had nowhere to turn, got what was coming to them for their appalling lack of financial control.

Good chiefs don;t necessarily make good restaurant managers.  I still have a copy of the financials.  The business was very viable had a number of key changes have been made.
bevans
If they were a Viable and Profitable business they would not have gone broke in the first place!
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Good chiefs don;t necessarily make good restaurant managers.  I still have a copy of the financials.  The business was very viable had a number of key changes have been made.
"bevans"
Yes; changes like millions of dollars for starters. Anyone who reckoned they could turn that disaster around should be the Governor of the Reserve Bank.
The better option would be to start a completely new business of your own without inheriting El Zorro's multitude of sins.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

If they were a Viable and Profitable business they would not have gone broke in the first place!
Dangersdan707

I have never said they were profitable but I do believe they were viable as evidenced by my review of the business.

Definition of unviable

: incapable of growth or development : not viable
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
I cannot understand how it could have been said to have had "some very good business" with figures like these. Anybody can run a business if he doesn't pay his bills, for as long as creditors let him get away with it.

Business doesn't just mean getting the work; it means getting the work, making enough money to pay the bills, and having some left over for a roof over the head and three meals a day. In my opinion, El Zorro was a latter day business train wreck.

Others have succeeded, so it shows it can be done. El Zorro failed lamentably, and the creditors, with the exception of employees who had nowhere to turn, got what was coming to them for their appalling lack of financial control.

Good chiefs don;t necessarily make good restaurant managers.  I still have a copy of the financials.  The business was very viable had a number of key changes have been made.
bevans

So why weren't they before they got forcibly wound up?
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
If the company isn't making profits then how can it expand or develop? Don't you need profits to promote expansion?

A company that owes money to creditors with no real way of providing a return while still trying to remain in the black but are instead in the red isn't a sign of a viable business....it is a sign of a company going out of business....which they did....
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

So why weren't they before they got forcibly wound up?
Greensleeves

Why weren't they what?
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne

So why weren't they before they got forcibly wound up?
Why weren't they what?
bevans
Seriously bevans? Why weren't they viable? May I kindly suggest you talk to ex employees of El Zorro. Any idiot can run a train, running a train profitably is an entirely different matter. The concept may have been fine but alot of people and organizations got burnt by El Zorro and that won't be forgotten in a hurry.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction

So why weren't they before they got forcibly wound up?
Why weren't they what?Seriously bevans? Why weren't they viable? May I kindly suggest you talk to ex employees of El Zorro. Any idiot can run a train, running a train profitably is an entirely different matter. The concept may have been fine but alot of people and organizations got burnt by El Zorro and that won't be forgotten in a hurry.
jakar
As a driver Jakar albeit a V/Line driver I would assume that you have met people who actually lost $$$ due to being employed by El Shonko?

As I have posted many times before as a VGR member I saw first hand the pain inflicted on our society (and, yes, I have acknowledged before it was badly handled by SHRC and the VGR who should have cut them off many months before they did).

Not only did the VGR lose $$$ as is well documented but when we eventually got T333 back it had indeed suffered a fail on the mainline and not been repaired as was required under the "contract" with the company so it is a double loss, the loco remains out of service to this day.
  Richard stroker Junior Train Controller

Bevans, give up with your argument. History says the opposite to you. It was not a viable profitable company, unless you study at the Allan Bond or Christopher Skase school of business, I'm starting to think you study at both of them
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Bevans, give up with your argument. History says the opposite to you. It was not a viable profitable company, unless you study at the Allan Bond or Christopher Skase school of business, I'm starting to think you study at both of them
Richard stroker

Richard, go back and read the thread.  When did I say it was profitable?

I said it was viable with the ability to turn it around with some change.  What history has shown is the management's inability to correct the issues within the business before it became a crisis.

I say you have never ever studied business at all. Myself on the other hand a very different story.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Bevans, give up with your argument. History says the opposite to you. It was not a viable profitable company, unless you study at the Allan Bond or Christopher Skase school of business, I'm starting to think you study at both of them

Richard, go back and read the thread.  When did I say it was profitable?

I said it was viable with the ability to turn it around with some change.  What history has shown is the management's inability to correct the issues within the business before it became a crisis.

I say you have never ever studied business at all. Myself on the other hand a very different story.
bevans
If it was such a viable business model why didn't some one else either

a) buy it as a going concern and keep it running

or

b) start up a new business offering the same services but without the baggage of El Shonko?

Oh and no, i didn't go to business school but I did study economics and a bachelor of banking and business finance and have run a small business for 20+ years with varying degrees of success, some years great, other years average.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
If it was such a viable business model why didn't some one else either

a) buy it as a going concern and keep it running

or

b) start up a new business offering the same services but without the baggage of El Shonko?

Oh and no, i didn't go to business school but I did study economics and a bachelor of banking and business finance and have run a small business for 20+ years with varying degrees of success, some years great, other years average.
BrentonGolding

BG

a. I looked at doing this and decided not to.  Not because the business model was not good.

b. I would argue there are still opprotiunities to do so and SSR, Great Northern and Qube are all examples of this.

Thanks for sharing your background.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Ok; let's consider the viability of El Zorro.

What would you pay to take over the business?
What assetts did El Zorro have?
What was the size of the customer base? Could you guarantee that they would not go/had not gone somewhere else?
How many similar groups would you be competing against?
How would you finance the takeover?
What is your marketing plan?
What is the size of the market?
Given El Zorro's record, would you be able to hire locos on credit, or would it be cash up front?

That'll do for starters.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
As a driver Jakar albeit a V/Line driver I would assume that you have met people who actually lost $$$ due to being employed by El Shonko?
BrentonGolding
Absolutely Brenton, it comes up in meal room discussion every now and then and the ex-employees stories aren't pretty.

I reviewed the accounts with a business partner but the information provided could not easily be verified without doing DD.
bevans
bevans they weren't called El Shonky and other derogatory names for no reason, I wouldn't be basing your judgement on whether they could have been viable or not on unverified accounts as i'm led to believe that the official accounting side was not particularly 'accurate'.........
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
bevans they weren't called El Shonky and other derogatory names for no reason, I wouldn't be basing your judgement on whether they could have been viable or not on unverified accounts as i'm led to believe that the official accounting side was not particularly 'accurate'.........
jakar

The key reason I did not do a deal and much capital was available to do a deal.  I still have a copy of the accounts and other paperwork.  I am also under NDA.

However, I have made money in the past being a "challenger" in a market and the business model at El Zorro was sound but the execution was not.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
As a driver Jakar albeit a V/Line driver I would assume that you have met people who actually lost $$$ due to being employed by El Shonko?
Absolutely Brenton, it comes up in meal room discussion every now and then and the ex-employees stories aren't pretty.

I reviewed the accounts with a business partner but the information provided could not easily be verified without doing DD.
bevans they weren't called El Shonky and other derogatory names for no reason, I wouldn't be basing your judgement on whether they could have been viable or not on unverified accounts as i'm led to believe that the official accounting side was not particularly 'accurate'.........
jakar
Knowing a couple of Qube drivers who have worked for El Shonk, can confirm that sentiment about the company. There was a reason none of them were ever going to consider going to Transvolution if it ever got off the ground.

On a side note, those wagons "that Transvolution brought" have been seen in active use on Qube trains now Razz
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
As a driver Jakar albeit a V/Line driver I would assume that you have met people who actually lost $$$ due to being employed by El Shonko?
Absolutely Brenton, it comes up in meal room discussion every now and then and the ex-employees stories aren't pretty.

I reviewed the accounts with a business partner but the information provided could not easily be verified without doing DD.
bevans they weren't called El Shonky and other derogatory names for no reason, I wouldn't be basing your judgement on whether they could have been viable or not on unverified accounts as i'm led to believe that the official accounting side was not particularly 'accurate'.........
Knowing a couple of Qube drivers who have worked for El Shonk, can confirm that sentiment about the company. There was a reason none of them were ever going to consider going to Transvolution if it ever got off the ground.

On a side note, those wagons "that Transvolution brought" have been seen in active use on Qube trains now Razz
speedemon08
I was under the impression that their bogies were but under the BG ballast hoppers though?
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
As a driver Jakar albeit a V/Line driver I would assume that you have met people who actually lost $$$ due to being employed by El Shonko?
Absolutely Brenton, it comes up in meal room discussion every now and then and the ex-employees stories aren't pretty.

I reviewed the accounts with a business partner but the information provided could not easily be verified without doing DD.
bevans they weren't called El Shonky and other derogatory names for no reason, I wouldn't be basing your judgement on whether they could have been viable or not on unverified accounts as i'm led to believe that the official accounting side was not particularly 'accurate'.........
Knowing a couple of Qube drivers who have worked for El Shonk, can confirm that sentiment about the company. There was a reason none of them were ever going to consider going to Transvolution if it ever got off the ground.

On a side note, those wagons "that Transvolution brought" have been seen in active use on Qube trains now Razz
I was under the impression that their bogies were but under the BG ballast hoppers though?
Dangersdan707
I guess they finally shelled out for more wheelsets. Pinching the bogies was the quick and nasty way off getting those hoppers set up on BG for the apex in a short time.

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