Fitzroy and North Fitzroy Goods Yards

 
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
I have noticed over the last couple of days that Norm Bray has added a couple more photo's of Fitzroy Goods on to his Flickr site. (http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=60901191@N08&q=Fitzroy%20Goods)
"nscaler69"

Thanks for the `heads up' Nscaler69! Norm Bray is a wonderful man!!!! Thanks Norm if you are reading this! The latest photos are really good as they show a Bunge bulk `tanker' plus a good shot of the briquette unloader. This confirms that  the string of GY's etc was brought in, the end closest the buffers/baulks was the first unloaded with the wagon's doors being opened and the briquettes poured out onto the conveyor belt.  When that wagon was empty, somehow either a small `cut' of wagons or the whole string was moved towards the buffers/baulks and the next wagon was unloaded. That way you end up with the string of empty wagon along side the briquette shed, ready to be pulled out on either the track they came in on, or the center line of the three adjacent lines.
The discovery continues! Thanks to all,
  Andrew G.

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  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria

Thanks for the `heads up' Nscaler69! Norm Bray is a wonderful man!!!! Thanks Norm if you are reading this! The latest photos are really good as they show a Bunge bulk `tanker' plus a good shot of the briquette unloader. This confirms that  the string of GY's etc was brought in, the end closest the buffers/baulks was the first unloaded with the wagon's doors being opened and the briquettes poured out onto the conveyor belt.  When that wagon was empty, somehow either a small `cut' of wagons or the whole string was moved towards the buffers/baulks and the next wagon was unloaded. That way you end up with the string of empty wagon along side the briquette shed, ready to be pulled out on either the track they came in on, or the center line of the three adjacent lines.
The discovery continues! Thanks to all,
  Andrew G.
"TTrakAndrew"

And just wait a minute, THERE'S MORE!!!!!
http://www.flickr.com/search/?ss=2&w=60901191%40N08&q=Fitzroy+&m=text
Three new photos showing more of the older of the two conveyor belt systems (I think this is an earlier built type used at most of the suburban yards, and I think at Boorcan), plus the yellow tractor used to push individual wagons along! Thanks Norm Bray!!!! These are the sorts of photo's that are just as important to take as loco roster shots and 3/4 views of rollingstock. Without  these `industries' etc we would have no railway system to begin with!
Regards,
          Andrew G.
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
Thank-you Norm Bray *& Grahame Lowe. Two more photo's, which will work with Google Sketch Up to make the briquette shed a real modelling possibility. (Latest estimates on the length of the shed, 180m!!! 1.125m long in N scale!)

The wagon un-loader will be a challenge, as will be buying enough GY's!! Highly selective compression for the first version definitely.
New photo's at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60901191@N08/7920151008/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60901191@N08/7920150834/


Regards,
            Andrew G.
  retromelb Chief Commissioner

You may be able to get an idea of the relative length of the goods shed from the Melbourne Aerial Survey 1945.  The western goods shed can be clearly seen, but unfortunately the image is rather blurred for the rest of the area you are interested in.
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
ARE magazine had a four or five part article on the Inner Circle lines in the 1990s.
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
You may be able to get an idea of the relative length of the goods shed from the Melbourne Aerial Survey 1945.  The western goods shed can be clearly seen, but unfortunately the image is rather blurred for the rest of the area you are interested in.
"retromelb"


G'day Retromelb,
                           Thanks for the suggestion, I have already worked on that photo from the location at:
http://emhs.org.au/gallery/maps/1945_ae ... =_original
which was forwarded to me on another internet group and from which I used the cricket pitch from the nearby recreation ground as a `ruler' (66 feet between wickets plus approximately four feet beyond the wickets at each end to the end of the concrete/asphalt/melthoid etc. giving a total length of 74 feet) and applying a grid over a `cropped' section of the big photo. This is how I got my present estimations.
However your referral appears to have twice the resolution of my first referral, and so I  will repeat the process.
Thanks,
           Andrew G.
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
ARE magazine had a four or five part article on the Inner Circle lines in the 1990s.
"Sir Thomas Bent"

Thank-you Sir Thomas,
Do you, or any other Railpage members know which particular issues so that I can chase them up, or have the articles themselves appropriately copied for private study.
Regards,
               Andrew G.
  nscaler69 Deputy Commissioner

Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Andrew, you estimate the briquette shed as being 180m long, are you sure that shouldn't be 180 feet long.
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
Andrew, you estimate the briquette shed as being 180m long, are you sure that shouldn't be 180 feet long.
"nscaler69"


I know that it is hard to believe, but when I overlay a grid pattern on an enlarged section of the map that features both the briquette shed and the nearby cricket pitch I get the following figures:
length of cricket pitch, 8 grid squares.
length of briquette shed on the short side, 67 grid squares.
Therefore length of shed is 67/8 times the length of a cricket pitch (66 feet between wickets plus approximately four feet beyond the wickets at each end to the end of the concrete/asphalt/melthoid etc. giving a total length of 74 feet)
Therefore length of shed is 67X74/8=619.75 feet, which equates to 189 meters!!!!! It is a bl--dy long building and briquettes were big business, and some of the trains in the photo's look really long for a suburban goods.
Also take into account one of my earlier findings, a post on Trams Down Under: http://tdu.to/57710.msg?sid=82099 which describes the briquette siding at Fitzroy goods yard as being half a mile long. This may be correct for the whole length of the yard, got to count some more squares!!!
Thanks for querying the calculations, because it does seem too big to be true.
Regards,
            Andrew G.


  heisdeadjim Chief Commissioner

This entire thread is fascinating for me as I used to work a drop punt's worth of length from the railway "hump" in Nicholson Street North Fitzroy. Well done to everyone for participating.
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
This entire thread is fascinating for me as I used to work a drop punt's worth of length from the railway "hump" in Nicholson Street North Fitzroy. Well done to everyone for participating.
"heisdeadjim"

Thank-you for the compliments. it has become a very enjoyable exercise/experience. Plus data appears in the most surprising places. Read the blynd-freddie entry at :
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/the-old-gabba-fiveways.970410/

Does anyone belong to the BIG FOOTY forum and able to contact this man???

Plus add in this data on the footbridge, plus close up photo's, a help even though the footbridge is `alive and well' on the Mornington Peninsular:
http://vhd.heritage.vic.gov.au/vhd/heritagevic#detail_places;67119

Regards,
            Andrew G.



  nscaler69 Deputy Commissioner

Location: There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
Andrew, looking at that B.G. forum at the very bottom they have a 'contact us' maybe try that and explain what and why you want.

Greg M
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
As `real life' creeps back in my pace has slowed down a bit, perhaps for the better as I have consolidate what is already gathered. To stir things positively Graham Lowe & Norm Bray have added 2 more photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60901191@N08/7975801361/
which shows a NSWGR bogie open wagon in briquette service. The GY's were busy moving wheat in April 1980??
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60901191@N08/7981995876/
is close up of a point lever near the good office. This is a `new' side of the office in terms of photos as it shows the entry to the toilet/(shower?) block. Very useful for modelling.
These are appreciated.
Regards, Andrew G.
  Bullucked Assistant Commissioner

Have a look at this aerial photo. You'll get a very good indication of the sheds size based upon the surrounding streets;
http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/21174

and this;
http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/20700







  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
Have a look at this aerial photo. You'll get a very good indication of the sheds size based upon the surrounding streets;
http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/21174

and this;
http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/20700

"Bullucked"

Thank-you very much Bullucked!!! The briquette shed was a monster, and it looks like there was a an extension to the original structure because of the `jiggle' in the roof line on the rail side, most clearly seen in the second aerial photo. Could you please tell me what search terms/method di you use to find them?
A new question is how were the briquettes unloaded into the shed before the equipment at the end of the shed shown in the Grahame Lowe (via Norm Bray) 1980's photos was installed? My very limited direct experience of briquette sheds and a not much better survey of photo's of them consistently show a low wall made up of horizontal sleepers or similar along the rail side, with an open or wired in area above them. Does this mean manual labour shovelling out the wagon over the low wall and into the shed?
Thanks also to other folks who have PM'd me with extra info and words of appreciation also. It is quite humbling in a very positive way when other folks spend time and effort searching out stuff for this enterprise.
Regards,
              Andrew G.
  Bullucked Assistant Commissioner


Thank-you very much Bullucked!!!  Could you please tell me what search terms/method di you use to find them?
Regards,
Andrew G.
"TTrakAndrew"


It was easy, the links were sent to me as part of very many more! If I knew how to access the SLV website and navigate my way around it I don't think I'd ever leave the computer. Full of interest these pictures. Laughing
I too have very much enjoyed this thread and, with the assistance of these aerial  photos, I now have the clearest understanding of the track layout that I've ever had.  If any more find their way to me I'll post the link.
  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic
The Melbourne uni library has a great online collection of aerial photos of Melbourne in 1945.

This page http://www.lib.unimelb.edu.au/collections/maps/historical/1945melb/848b2.html has the image of the area. Not Nearmap quality, but it may help with the overall layout.

Cheers

Rick
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
The Melbourne uni library has a great online collection of aerial photos of Melbourne in 1945.

This page http://www.lib.unimelb.edu.au/collections/maps/historical/1945melb/848b2.html has the image of the area. Not Nearmap quality, but it may help with the overall layout.

Cheers

Rick
"RustyRick"


G'day Rick,
                 Thanks for this reference, I have found it before but I appreciate you taking the time etc to point it out. I would rather find/be referred to the same item 2 or 3 times in a different way than miss out on something.
I have finally made up a track plan of the goods yard. Not to scale, but to arrangement. Go to:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85896932@N07/8002864837/

Regards,
            Andrew G.



  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria


G'day Rick,
Thanks for this reference, I have found it before but I appreciate you taking the time etc to point it out. I would rather find/be referred to the same item 2 or 3 times in a different way than miss out on something.
I have finally made up a track plan of the goods yard. Not to scale, but to arrangement. Go to:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85896932@N07/8002864837/

Regards,
Andrew G.

"TTrakAndrew"

G'day All, an update:
a) Recent information supplied by a gentleman working for H A Chalmers Transport: One of the silos was used to transfer/transload barley to go to Joe White Maltings in Collingwood. See:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/95818324@N00/499141474/
The truck was an International Tray with a removable body.
b) A brief informal chat with a current sparks driver who worked the Fitzroy goods train mentioned in passing that the train was at times 'banked' near Royal Park.
Regards,
           Andrew G.



  chonnaigh Station Master

Location: Vic
A couple of further memories..

Bunge also owned the silos at Nth Fitzroy.

The Yard Foremans office was brick and contained some 'delightful' calenders- as a new start 16 year old , I loved 'em! (girly type ones)
All the fittings were painted in the yard and some sleepers were replaced IMMEDIATELY prior to closure in 1981.

I believe the original passenger platform was under the timber shed on the up side of the line north of the footbridge.

I dont remember any banking , though Im sure it would have occured, maybe before my time .

I DO recall the constant stopping at all those level crossings and attempting to red flag traffic- good way to get run over!



Hope thats of some interest!


Cheers
PK

 


G'day Rick,
Thanks for this reference, I have found it before but I appreciate you taking the time etc to point it out. I would rather find/be referred to the same item 2 or 3 times in a different way than miss out on something.
I have finally made up a track plan of the goods yard. Not to scale, but to arrangement. Go to:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85896932@N07/8002864837/

Regards,
Andrew G.

"TTrakAndrew"

G'day All, an update:
a) Recent information supplied by a gentleman working for H A Chalmers Transport: One of the silos was used to transfer/transload barley to go to Joe White Maltings in Collingwood. See:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/95818324@N00/499141474/
The truck was an International Tray with a removable body.
b) A brief informal chat with a current sparks driver who worked the Fitzroy goods train mentioned in passing that the train was at times 'banked' near Royal Park.
Regards,
Andrew G.


"TTrakAndrew"
  TTrakAndrew Locomotive Driver

Location: St Arnaud Victoria
From "chonnaigh"]:
A couple of further memories..

Bunge also owned the silos at Nth Fitzroy.

The Yard Foremans office was brick and contained some 'delightful' calenders- as a new start 16 year old , I loved 'em! (girly type ones)
All the fittings were painted in the yard and some sleepers were replaced IMMEDIATELY prior to closure in 1981.

I believe the original passenger platform was under the timber shed on the up side of the line north of the footbridge.

I dont remember any banking , though Im sure it would have occured, maybe before my time .

I DO recall the constant stopping at all those level crossings and attempting to red flag traffic- good way to get run over!



Hope thats of some interest!


Cheers
PK


Thank-you PK, this is very helpful, especially about Bunge owning the silos and the overall good maintenance standards. The red flag must have been one of the last places for that type of operation on VR.
One very important question, how often was the goods service? Weekly, twice weekly, daily, as required?
Also, how often did the vans of palletized flour come in. Photo's of the last decade or so the yard's operation suggest nearly every train had 2 or 3.
Thanks again,
                    Andrew G.



  duttonbay Minister for Railways

In 1964 there was one goods train to Fitzroy on weekdays. Interestingly, on Tue,Thu,Fri it ran as a combined service to Reservoir, the train being marshalled out of Melbourne yard as: brakevan, Fitzroy loading, brakevan, Reservoir line loading, North Fitzroy loading, engine.  Mark Bau's site only has a 1967 diagram of Royal Park, and at that time there was no way to perform a run-round at Royal Park without the loco running to Macaulay. Weston Langford's sketch, dated 1959, also has no way to run-around, so quite how this reversal was performed is a mystery.

Equally oddly, the load limit for trains between Melbourne Yard and Fitzroy is shown as 60 vehicles, but the up goods schedules have a note in the WTT, advising the maximum length is to be 28 vehicles. Digging a little deeper, the (1953) GA states "in order to prevent an Up goods train standing foul of St George's Road when waiting at the Disc Signal, Post No. 34, at North Fitzroy 'A' Box, trhe maximum number of vehicles on any Up Goods train from Fitzroy must not exceed twenty-eight. Further instructions say that before leaving Fitzroy, the person in charge must confer with the signalman at Nth Fitzroy A, inform him of the number of vehicles on the train, and obtain his permission before allowing the train to depart.




  chonnaigh Station Master

Location: Vic
I recall there was an 'Upload' from Totty Yard on I think three days a week late 70s/early 80's that took Bunge (Albury) and Waterwheel (Bridgewater) 'flour pots' to Fitzroy and Glenroy. It was re-marshalled in East Yard with the Fitzroy portion being combined with general loading for same. The Glenroy stuff was run out (I think) with Kensington grainy, Essendon Briquettes and Somerton Steel. I recall the odd truck for Broady too.

There was a little short siding at North Carlton too near the old station. A retired ganger lived in the station and he had fenced off the up platform to form a backyard! I cant recall seeing the siding there used. The park land near Princes Park was a hazardous ride, kids, footballs, teens having a few 'pipes' that sort of thing. The train guards used to cop lots of stuff chucked at them!  Generally, the loco assistant rode on the step of the engine most of the trip, to red flag every few hundred yards! Though sometimes a shunter would come out from East Yard.

By my time, I think the goods only ran 3 days a week tops, but was definitley timetabled and there was an RT shunting Fitzroy and North Fitz driven by the yard assistant. I think the entire line in its later years was worked as a long siding. Unlike Footscray Goods (Maribyrnong River) that was electric staff.  There were yard staff at Fitzroy every weekday that I remember. I think a Yard Foreman, Yard assistant/Number Taker/ shunter and a checker and a stower. The private companies like Canterbury's had quite a few people around too. The public could load there as well via Queens Parade end gate.  I recall a tram coming to grief at the St Georges Rd tramway square once. That caused a traffic jam!   Hell, Im old enough to remember the single track tram line that ran along Holden St and passed behind the Nth Fitz Silos!  Thats a sobering thought!

I think the local councils wanted the place closed more than VR. There were still quite healthy loadings out of the place right until the end. It stayed a VR road goods depot for years after (Much like Victoria Park, Bayswater etc)

If I remember more, ill let you know. I may have an original stamped truck waybill or two lying around- ill have a look in my cupboard of railway 'crap'!  If I find it/them- its/their yours!  

Cheers
PK

quote="TTrakAndrew"]From "chonnaigh"]:
A couple of further memories..

Bunge also owned the silos at Nth Fitzroy.

The Yard Foremans office was brick and contained some 'delightful' calenders- as a new start 16 year old , I loved 'em! (girly type ones)
All the fittings were painted in the yard and some sleepers were replaced IMMEDIATELY prior to closure in 1981.

I believe the original passenger platform was under the timber shed on the up side of the line north of the footbridge.

I dont remember any banking , though Im sure it would have occured, maybe before my time .

I DO recall the constant stopping at all those level crossings and attempting to red flag traffic- good way to get run over!



Hope thats of some interest!


Cheers
PK


Thank-you PK, this is very helpful, especially about Bunge owning the silos and the overall good maintenance standards. The red flag must have been one of the last places for that type of operation on VR.
One very important question, how often was the goods service? Weekly, twice weekly, daily, as required?
Also, how often did the vans of palletized flour come in. Photo's of the last decade or so the yard's operation suggest nearly every train had 2 or 3.
Thanks again,
Andrew G.


[/quote]
  Broadgauge Station Master

Location: Melbourne - Victoria

Very interesting diagram of the later day goods track layout

 I know when the line opened that it boasted a passenger service that was discontinued quite early on.

Presumably then Fitzroy must have had a passenger platform and passenger facilities at some stage. 

I was just wondering where they were located, what they consisted of and what happened to them after the cessation of the passenger service?  

  Melbournesparks Chief Commissioner

Location: City of Eltham

Was the line to Fitzroy ever electrified? It doesn't look like it was from the photos, unless they were very thorough in removing all the remains.



In the 1945 arial photo the briquette shed and footbridge can clearly be seen, and what is possibly the passenger platform just to the north of the footbridge. Does anyone know when the passenger service ended?

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