Syria, its about to get messy

 
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
I wonder how strong the Syrian army is, Sure they may act like Brutes and Tough men against their own people, But when the International Military comes in?

Kind Regards

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  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
Get ready for Australian involvement?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-24/rudd-heads-to-canberra-for-briefings-on-syria/4909976
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
I wonder how strong the Syrian army is, Sure they may act like Brutes and Tough men against their own people, But when the International Military comes in?

Kind Regards
lsrailfan

What international military?

Anywhere the west has intervened without the SOLID support of the OVERWELMING majority of the local population has ended up badly.

There are no easy answers, but there are 'unforseen' consequences.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

It appears the Saudis talked to Putin in an attempt to get the Russians to back away.  They won't.

I don't think much of the world really has a clue about what could unfold if the Yanks and NATO get involved.  The whole saga is starting to feel like Europe of 100 years ago.
http://www.theage.com.au/business/world-business/saudis-offer-russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-syria-20130827-2smvt.html
  HeadShunt Chief Train Controller

It appears the Saudis talked to Putin in an attempt to get the Russians to back away.  They won't.

I don't think much of the world really has a clue about what could unfold if the Yanks and NATO get involved.  The whole saga is starting to feel like Europe of 100 years ago.
http://www.theage.com.au/business/world-business/saudis-offer-russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-syria-20130827-2smvt.html
Carnot
hmmmm

As-Safir said Prince Bandar pledged to safeguard Russia’s naval base in Syria if the Assad regime is toppled, but he also hinted at Chechen terrorist attacks on Russia’s Winter Olympics in Sochi if there is no accord.


‘‘I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the Games are controlled by us,’’ he allegedly said.

Prince Bandar went on to say that Chechens operating in Syria were a pressure tool that could be switched on and off.

‘‘We use them in the face of the Syrian regime but they will have no role in Syria’s political future.’’

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/world-business/saudis-offer-russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-syria-20130827-2smvt.html#ixzz2d9yfNcf7
The Australian
Yet more evidence of the involvement of foreign powers in Syrian affairs, assuming it's true, which wouldn't surprise me. Are we supposed to ignore or even accept this sort of thing?


The Putin-Bandar meeting took place three weeks ago. Mr Putin was unmoved by the Saudi offer.

‘‘We believe that the Syrian regime is the best speaker on behalf of the Syrian people, and not those liver eaters,’’ he said, referring to footage showing a Jihadist rebel eating the heart and liver of a Syrian soldier.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/world-business/saudis-offer-russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-syria-20130827-2smvt.html#ixzz2d9zJBZBd
The Australian
Cannibalistic terrorists as the next government of Syria? No, thanks.


Assad: accusations against his government are against logic. Maybe he has a point.

UN weapons inspectors under unidentified sniper attack in Syria

The World Police, hungry for some action, are playing on our humanitarian spirit to justify bombing the bejesus out of another country. Oh, sorry, I forgot, it's "the will of the Syrian people", not just the will of the US elite, as the US elite keep telling us... Yet we hear very little from ordinary Syrians, just a few videos showing packs of savages assembled by the West purporting to represent the interests of the Syrian people and very brief excerpts from interviews of ordinary Syrians in the street.

American people opposed to Syrian intervention. The POTUS might feel pressured to act against Assad, but if the American people are overwhelmingly opposed to another invasion, just who is putting he and other leaders under that pressure? Not the People they supposedly represent. "Special interest groups" like the military industrial complex and other businesses who stand to win contracts from the conflict, perhaps? Sounds more like it.


Syria gas attack work of US allies
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
It appears the Saudis talked to Putin in an attempt to get the Russians to back away.  They won't.

I don't think much of the world really has a clue about what could unfold if the Yanks and NATO get involved.  The whole saga is starting to feel like Europe of 100 years ago.
http://www.theage.com.au/business/world-business/saudis-offer-russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-syria-20130827-2smvt.html
Carnot

The yanks will just fire some missiles in to let Assard no the chemical weapons are not on and as a warning not to do it again. they might also use the oppurtunity to level the playing field a bit for the rebels, however I think blind Freddie can see that a Syria in the hands of the non-unifided rebels will be same or worse than the outcomes of Tunisia, Libya and Eygpt. ie ongoing minor fighting, religious hard liners trying to influence their rules on others, secterian violence, bomb attacks etc etc. this war has gone on too long and killed too many people, any one/family attached to the loosing side will suffer retaliation. I'd say Syria will be lucky to return to stability for another 5-10 years.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
The yanks will just fire some missiles in to let Assard no the chemical weapons are not on and as a warning not to do it again. they might also use the oppurtunity to level the playing field a bit for the rebels, however I think blind Freddie can see that a Syria in the hands of the non-unifided rebels will be same or worse than the outcomes of Tunisia, Libya and Eygpt. ie ongoing minor fighting, religious hard liners trying to influence their rules on others, secterian violence, bomb attacks etc etc. this war has gone on too long and killed too many people, any one/family attached to the loosing side will suffer retaliation. I'd say Syria will be lucky to return to stability for another 5-10 years.
RTT_Rules

The west should have learnt by now that just because there are the enemies of your enemies that doesn't make them your friends.

The closest we have had to a 'just' war was WW2 but it was also total warfare. Why did that war end 'well'.

1. The Italians as a nation were tired and didn't have their heart in it anyway.
2. The Germans were pounded into the ground and the Nazi apparatus disintegrated - there was no redoubt. Afterwards few Germans considered themselves as being Nazis.
3. The Japanese could have continued a guerrilla war for years however their god-emperor decreed it surrender. Many committed suicide rather than disobey and fight on.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Probably one of the more unbiased reports I've read of what is really going on:
http://www.news.com.au/world-news/simple-points-to-help-you-understand-the-syria-conflict/story-fndir2ev-1226705155146
  PaulAustin Locomotive Fireman

I have no time for idiotic pacifists who think that wars can be fought with only the "guilty" getting killed. Those who fought against the evils of Kaiser Bill or Adolf Hitler would have been contemptuous of those - who were rightly sent white feathers by homefront women - getting their own memorial plaque in London to their supposed "sacrifice".
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
I have no time for idiotic pacifists who think that wars can be fought with only the "guilty" getting killed. Those who fought against the evils of Kaiser Bill or Adolf Hitler would have been contemptuous of those - who were rightly sent white feathers by homefront women - getting their own memorial plaque in London to their supposed "sacrifice".
PaulAustin

WW2 may have been the only just war. WW1 was folly and more about empires and who was married to who.

As for Jo or Joanne public safely tucked up at home, the only people with the right to call anyone a coward are those taking the bullets.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

And is highly likely to get even more messy

After breaking news, it looks like that Britain, France and/or the US will wage war against Syria.
Also claims of another chemical attack.

But how much mess has US got other countries into? And it's not really the US's war. And how responsible is the US for sticking their beaks into the Middle East over the decades?

Concerns that Syria will retaliate and strike Israel.


Turkey & Lebanon have a right to strike Syria due to the bombs targetting some of those countrie area, but Syria also has a right to attack Israel for Israel doing the same to Syria.

US KEEP YA INTERFERING BEAKS OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST FOR ONCE. Let them sort it out themselves, unless it directly affects the US.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
US KEEP YA INTERFERING BEAKS OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST FOR ONCE. Let them sort it out themselves, unless it directly affects the US.
Newcastle Express

While innocent civilians are being slaughtered by chemical weapons? Is this not the very reason we created a United Nations organisation in the first place?
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
While innocent civilians are being slaughtered by chemical weapons? Is this not the very reason we created a United Nations organisation in the first place?
TheBlacksmith
The UNs core aim was to stop wars between countries (like WW1 and WW2). This is a civil war which many UN members consider as an internal matter just like many here don't like 'the UN' sticking it's nose into 'our business'. From a practical consideration the UN covers a large number of countries with divergent views. Then there's the UN Security Council which is usually splits along superpower lines.

Civilians are always casualties of war so nothings new here. Civil war is just that, civilian war. Chemical weapons are 'bad' but is there really a good way to be slaughtered Exclamation

The problem here is that there is no one cohesive opposition and we should now appreciate what that means. Throwing a few cruise missiles will do more for our consciences, fair enough but don't expect it to end conflict.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Civilians are always casualties of war so nothings new here.
Groundrelay

Oh, OK then, so it is OK for a government to slaughter its own people simply because it wants to stay in power.

Let's make that bit more local and have smiley Kevin unleash the Australian Army on the people of Australia rather than face the next election.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Oh, OK then, so it is OK for a government to slaughter its own people simply because it wants to stay in power.

Let's make that bit more local and have smiley Kevin unleash the Australian Army on the people of Australia rather than face the next election.
TheBlacksmith

How did you work that out Rolling Eyes
By all means go in guns blazing without any exit strategy (as long as it's you taking the bullet).

That last line is bizarre given it's a conservative regime running Syria (and Iran, North Korea etc).
What's happening there is nothing new since conservatives throughout history have been paranoid about people getting some of their lollypops and react violently to maintain the status quo.

Continuing the bizarre it's just as well we did have an election now otherwise we'd end up like 1930's Germany with the full backing of Rosebud and the born to rule establishment.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
How did you work that out Rolling Eyes
Groundrelay
It is merely a reaction to your rather callous regard for civilian casualties, the consideration of which is sadly lacking at the time of the conflict, and yet manages to become the entire issue when history looks back on the 'atrocity'.

The world did nothing when Germany annihilated their Jewish population, nothing again when Pol Pot snuffed out around 3 million of his own people, and again we did nothing when 8,000 people where killed in Srebrenica by Mladic. And if we do nothing while the Syrian governments kills its own people, then we stand condemned yet again.



[Quote="Groundrelay"] By all means go in guns blazing without any exit strategy (as long as it's you taking the bullet).[/quote]
No thank you, it wont' be me in there, and so far no-one has a clue about an exit strategy because there are no details being given about what the US or UK intend to do. It could very well be a surgical strike to deprive the Syrian government of its arsenal of weapons.
  HeadShunt Chief Train Controller

Oh, OK then, so it is OK for a government to slaughter its own people simply because it wants to stay in power. Let's make that bit more local and have smiley Kevin unleash the Australian Army on the people of Australia rather than face the next election.

How did you work that out Rolling Eyes
By all means go in guns blazing without any exit strategy (as long as it's you taking the bullet).

That last line is bizarre given it's a conservative regime running Syria (and Iran, North Korea etc).
What's happening there is nothing new since conservatives throughout history have been paranoid about people getting some of their lollypops and react violently to maintain the status quo.
Groundrelay

I don't think many would say that it is OK for a government to slaughter its own people, especially "civilians". When it comes to slaughtering rebels in a civil war, the picture is somewhat different and our personal views would probably depend to some extent on which side we supported, but civil wars are particularly nasty and a lot of non-combatants tend to get killed. How would our government respond to a large scale insurrection? They'd break out the police and the military, and there's a good chance people would die.

But what do we think about the rebels/Free Syrian Army, a loosely organised pack of barbarous kids, many not Syrian, fighting against the real Syrian army, who cut the hearts and livers of dead soldiers out and eat them raw, and who have also been implicated in chemical weapons attacks and allegedly caught with sarin gas earlier this year? Is that OK? That's whose side we are currently on and it is doubtful that they truly represent the interests of ordinary Syrian people. Do we want the Syrian National Coalition, an unelected group of Western puppets-to be, based outside the country, to rule Syria? Some of the rebel groups have distanced themselves from this coalition. What right do we have to say who rules Syria anyway? I don't think this situation is anywhere near OK.

Oh, let's drop a few bombs on Assad's military installations to soften him up and make things easier for the heart-eating rebels. If they do, we'll be fed reassuring lines like, "this operation will focus on military installations only, civilians and civilian facilities will not be targeted..." and sleep soundly in the belief we did our bit for humanity by coming to the rescue yet again. Yeah, right, just like no civilians were killed and no civilian facilities were destroyed in Baghdad.

Western leaders say they are on the side of the Syrian people and they want to help give them what they want. I'm not so sure about that. It's what they say every time they support a governmental overthrow or start dropping bombs somewhere. What the Western Elite want is a government it can control, which it cannot get from Assad. They don't give a damn about the Syrian people.

This isn't going to end well.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Oh, OK then, so it is OK for a government to slaughter its own people simply because it wants to stay in power.

Let's make that bit more local and have smiley Kevin unleash the Australian Army on the people of Australia rather than face the next election.
"TheBlacksmith"
Well Kevvie it seems is going to try and call the navy into Brisbane to help save his seat...
  GrahamH Chief Commissioner

Location: At a terminal on the www.
Pol Pot in Cambodia is an example of letting a country sort itself out. More than a quarter of the population dead, largely the professionals and the educated. The Vietnamese eventually intervened because of cross-border action but guerrilla activities continued for a couple of decades. People and farm animals are still being killed now by landmines from those times. There is still a shortage of competent professionals and of confidence in general by much of the population.

Not intervening sure did the Khmers a favour, didn't it.  

A huge shame on the countries which had the means and looked the other way. Australia included.
  PaulAustin Locomotive Fireman

If there was ever again a war like WWII you can expect pacifists and peaceniks to be swept aside and ignored, maybe even arrested and held without charge.
The western major armies also learnt their lessons after Vietnam, which is why you don't see the Iraq War being beamed nightly into your living room.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Well Kevvie it seems is going to try and call the navy into Brisbane to help save his seat...
Aaron

Yeah, but the Navy will probably shoot Kevin because they don't want to move from Garden Island. Good outcome from my point of view.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

A sensible decision by the British parliament (especially when it's not their war): Narrowly defeated not to take military action.
280-something not to take military action, 270-something for action.

Because of the it involving crossing borders, both Turkey & Lebanon have a right to attack Syria, but at the same time Syria has a right to attack "Israel" for it interfering with their nasty beak.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
If there was ever again a war like WWII you can expect pacifists and peaceniks to be swept aside and ignored, maybe even arrested and held without charge.
The western major armies also learnt their lessons after Vietnam, which is why you don't see the Iraq War being beamed nightly into your living room.
PaulAustin
Iraq war over - western troops no longer directly involved.

Safe to come out of the the fall out shelter now.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
It is merely a reaction to your rather callous regard for civilian casualties, the consideration of which is sadly lacking at the time of the conflict, and yet manages to become the entire issue when history looks back on the 'atrocity'.

...
TheBlacksmith

You sure took that the wrong way - realistic not callous Rolling Eyes

My point was that you need to be careful wading into a civil war. Civil wars are wars involving civilians and they are bloody and cruel whether it involves gassing or macheting people to pieces. They are much less cut and dry than traditional wars against countries.

If we are to be the worlds policeman fine - just lets not be naïve about how things may end up.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Yeah, but the Navy will probably shoot Kevin because they don't want to move from Garden Island. Good outcome from my point of view.
TheBlacksmith
Comments like that are a worry. Are you wearing your brown shirt and practicing the goose step too. Rolling Eyes

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