A-City trains

 
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
In Melbourne they changed the later generation X'trapolis to 2+2 arrangement for the reason of extra access with pushers/wheelchairs down the isles but also because they felt the 5th centre seat wasn't being properly utilised in peak times (I'd have to agree with that); Siemens trains were delivered that way.  A-City trains are the same 2+2 now aren't they? Although it's a pain in bum when you can't get a seat on a longer trip I think it's a much better arrangement to have a wider isle.

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  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I haven't been on an X'Trapolis yet so I don't know the seating arrangement. I definitely support a wider aisle, the current 3+2 layout necessitates such narrow seats that even average people (let alone the horizontally endowed) overflow into the aisle and make it even narrower, having a more open layout will probably create the perception of it being less crowded even though there are fewer seats.

There was a 3100 swapped to 2+2 as a trial for the A-City a little while back, the number of standing passengers seemed to be about the same as it would have been on the same services. The trial layout was left in place permanently, taking it out of service to change it back would be ludicrous considering the trial proved it was a positive move.

One thing I'll be interested in with the A-City internal layout will be the location, number and type of ticket vending machines. Given it will have full walk-through access like Bombardier introduced on the Class 378 Capitalstar has for London Overground, I think it should be fine to cut back to just two vending machines for each unit instead of one per car. With a full-price single ticket now coming in at $5 it would also be good if they took notes as well as coins.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Yes ticket machines that took notes would be ideal as you still get people wanting to purchase a ticket using a note and when you tell them it only takes coins or credit cards you get some weird looks. You usually get one person every trip of late that looks for the note slot on these machines.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Oh, for the days when you used to be able to rock up with cash in Melbourne.  I was astonished the last time I went to Adelaide and there was a vending machine at the airport bus stop that took cash and gave you a disposable paper ticket... or the bus driver would actually sell you one.  What a modern, space-age world Adelaide people live in!
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Yes ticket machines that took notes would be ideal as you still get people wanting to purchase a ticket using a note and when you tell them it only takes coins or credit cards you get some weird looks. You usually get one person every trip of late that looks for the note slot on these machines.
David Peters

This video might be helpful to you



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2EbUzVPXaA

Thats why the machines on trams and trains don't accept notes.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Rubbish. The department told me in a letter it was purely because they wanted to save up-front costs on the ticket machine order, and that there were machines perfectly capable of handling notes despite the movement of the vehicle.

It works overseas, there's no reason it shouldn't work here.
  Scooter_Guy Chief Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA. Suburb: Redwood Park
Testing for the first train should be imminent.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Testing for the first train should be imminent.
"Scooter_Guy"


Yep, anytime between next week and christmas
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Yep, anytime between next week and christmas
Pressman
Christmas which year?
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Christmas which year?
"justapassenger"


Now thats the $64 question
  witsend Chief Commissioner

Location: Front RH Seat of a School Bus
Now thats the $64 question
"Pressman"


I'd expect that the present state labor government will want their brand new electrics out and in service before the next election, which in March 2014.
  bramt Deputy Commissioner

I had posted on this in a previous thread somewhere, it is not simply towing them from Dandy to Dynon to Dry Creek to Seaford any more, in those days they only had to deal with AN and Vline, now there are so many operators and they all want their cut, Bombardier explored all the options and wisely for them chose the cheapest and best option based on a business practice and not a desire to please gunzels, as it is, the system they have come up with is brilliant, works well and is a far quicker option that moving them by rail.

Wayne
hosk1956
My point was really just that your previous railcars were delivered by rail, under their own power when it was BG, and towed on transfer bogies after the interstate conversion to SG, so why can't they still do this?
You've said the answer is too many operators. OK then, but it's not really a great reason. There are countries with hundreds of operators, who deliver passenger cars by rail. Oh well.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Rubbish. The department told me in a letter it was purely because they wanted to save up-front costs on the ticket machine order, and that there were machines perfectly capable of handling notes despite the movement of the vehicle.

It works overseas, there's no reason it shouldn't work here.
justapassenger

Not that Im saying it or isnt true but DPTI willing to admit that so openly sounds even less believable to me than that video.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
My point was really just that your previous railcars were delivered by rail, under their own power when it was BG, and towed on transfer bogies after the interstate conversion to SG, so why can't they still do this?
You've said the answer is too many operators. OK then, but it's not really a great reason. There are countries with hundreds of operators, who deliver passenger cars by rail. Oh well.
"bramt"

As Hosk said, previously it, back then, would take just two operators (both Gov owned)
And as we know government operators didn't take true cost into account.
In todays world, cost is paramount, transport has to be the most efficent and cheapest option.

The current road transport sees the complete railcar winched onto the low loader with a winch, and unloaded the same way. The truck runs direct from the Manufacturer to Seaford Depot.

To transport via rail the following steps are needed
1. Railcars would need to be towed by a loco to a place with dual gauge.
2. The railcars would need to be lifted onto SG works bogies (Crane Hire would be a minimum of a couple of thoasands dollars)
3. Rail to Adelaide with buffer wagons (for braking) - this may have to be a speed restricted train - also loading gauge would have to be checked.
4. On arrival in Adelaide once again cranes would have to be hired so the railcar can be lifted onto it's bogies (this can only be done in a dual gauge location - most easiest would be Port Flat yard)
5. Then a BG loco would need to be hired to tow the railcar to Seaford Depot (more $$$$ )
6. Item 5 is currently not possible as the Seaford line is closed!

As I said ........ far cheaper on the low loader!
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
My point was really just that your previous railcars were delivered by rail, under their own power when it was BG, and towed on transfer bogies after the interstate conversion to SG, so why can't they still do this?
"bramt"
Are you for real? Why can they still not deliver these rail cars under their own power? Maybe it has something to do with the current world wide shortage of 900km 25kV rated extension cords...
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
This video might be helpful to you



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2EbUzVPXaA

Thats why the machines on trams and trains don't accept notes.
"Milkomeda"
Pure bollocks! Mobile note readers are used all over the world, and it's far harder to get a note reader to tell US notes apart than it is to get them to tell ours apart.

The size argument is a pure lie. Coke and other vending machines did not need to noticeably grow to accept notes.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
The size argument is a pure lie. Coke and other vending machines did not need to noticeably grow to accept notes.
"Aaron"


The contractor who owns the vending machines at my workplace retro fitted a note taker to one (previously) coin only machine. I can remember him saying he could buy and retrofit note taker kits to most coin operated machines.

I call them "Note Takers" rather than Note Readers because they TAKE!!!!!
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The new vending machines on trains take EFTPOS don't they?  If so that's probably a good alternative to note readers.... especially compared to Melbourne where you can't even pay with cash at all any more.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Pure bollocks! Mobile note readers are used all over the world, and it's far harder to get a note reader to tell US notes apart than it is to get them to tell ours apart.

The size argument is a pure lie. Coke and other vending machines did not need to noticeably grow to accept notes.
Aaron
Might just be the DPTI admitting that they are not behind the eight ball in the way of technology, have they ever been though.LaughingLaughing
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Not that Im saying it or isnt true but DPTI willing to admit that so openly sounds even less believable to me than that video.
Milkomeda
Prepare to be surprised! I sent them a polite enquiry about note readers and received a reply trying to convince me they were proud of using taxpayer funds economically, and that they were not concerned that there would be a revenue hit as a result of refusing potential ticket sales as there would always be the option to obtain coinage from other passengers.

I've seen better attempts at spin from seven year olds at Milo In2Cricket sessions!

Might just be the DPTI admitting that they are not behind the eight ball in the way of technology, have they ever been though.LaughingLaughing
David Peters
You've mucked up your metaphor, being behind the eight ball is to be stuck in a position with no positive option available, which is a bad thing.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I'm interested in the rumour that the A-train will be out testing soon.  I was thinking about visiting the Festival State sometime before Xmas and it would be good to be able to see what's been happening but in particular it would be really cool to spot Adelaide's new electric trains in action.  It will really stick it up a friend of mine (he still lives there) who said several years ago that "Adelaide will never, ever have electric trains."  Ha!

Jay Weatherill and his cabinet will have a lot of hopes pinned on this train impressing the punters - that and the fact that they're finally fixing Dean Brown's mistake of the reversing free-way.  It will be interesting to see if they can get the whole Seaford line running electric before the election.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
.....

I've seen better attempts at spin from seven year olds at Milo In2Cricket sessions!

.....
justapassenger

That made me laugh!  Mind if I steal it?
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
I'm interested in the rumour that the A-train will be out testing soon.
don_dunstan
So am I and I work there!!

Wayne
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Jay Weatherill and his cabinet will have a lot of hopes pinned on this train impressing the punters - that and the fact that they're finally fixing Dean Brown's mistake of the reversing free-way.  It will be interesting to see if they can get the whole Seaford line running electric before the election.
don_dunstan
I don't think it's the Seaford line that will be the problem as that was done close enough to on time and is ready to go, it will be the electrification and the running in of the EMUs that was supposed to happen during this big shutdown.

If they fiddled around with shortening a few consists across the network and/or reducing the number of cars in the depot in each peak they could run a limited service of most Noarlunga trains being extended with the 3000/3100 fleet right from the first day the Seaford line is reopened as far as Noarlunga in September or whenever it overruns to.

Speaking out of a tiny bit of self-interest, BikeSA and the Amy Gillett Foundation are putting on a major event with the finish line in McLaren Vale on Sunday 3 November. It would be good for a handful of trains to run from Seaford through the early afternoon to transport people and bikes back afterwards just like they pushed up the schedule of work to complete the Coast to Vines trail rebuild through the area for last year's event. It would also be potentially also a good chance for the passenger facilities to be tested out on a limited crowd, and to advertise metro rail as a good form of transport.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Thank-you, Justapassenger, that's really interesting, I suppose they could be using the new trains prior to formal opening if they can get it together in time? 85trainfan also mentioned that you can ride from Hallett Cove to Seaford or Seaford Meadows now, that would be interesting - does the bike trail incorporate the new rail bridge across the Onk or do you go some other way?  I couldn't seem to find the answer on the internet but I'm aware that the bridge does in fact have a bike/pedestrian lane over it.

As Hosk mentioned, it might be some time before they can actually get an A-Train set out there for testing - it's kind of interesting that the line itself appears to be ready but the electrification is still apparently a bit behind.  It's a major project, I guess you have to expect these kind of delays.

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