2013 Federal Election - 7th September

 
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
....

And why does the focus have to be about city issues? I live in the country and could not care less about your congestion issues, just as city people don't care about the issues we face in rural areas.
TheBlacksmith

I'm interested to hear what the issues are for regional/rural people and in what order of importance they are for you?

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  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Come on duck you can't have it both ways roll

Even the much maligned Liberal version is still be trumped by them as major infrastructure spending.

Since the Liberals have dropped that stonewalling negativity and agreed to the National Disability and Gonski programs should we be cynical about their motives given "They still are unfunded or hiding off the books in never-never land" shock
Groundrelay
Who said I agreed to the Lib versions?

I was replying to the greatness is built on debt for infrastructure projects.   Now we have debt but no infrastructure to show for it.   To me that means the money has been wasted.

The Libs only agreed to Gonski & Disabilitycare to avoid the negativity from Labor that they don't care for schools and the disabled.   Still doesn't mean that we can afford it or the plans were any good.   And if Labor do get in they will probably cost 4 times the amount set aside and 5 times as long to implement.
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
It is more interesting to me that, if you believe the polls, the distribution of ALP and Liberal voters is close to 50%, that vastly more ALP sympathisers are represented in this discussion.

And why does the focus have to be about city issues? I live in the country and could not care less about your congestion issues, just as city people don't care about the issues we face in rural areas.
"TheBlacksmith"


Not always true, I live in Gippsland and our regional trains pass through the congested Dandenong rail corridor - if the congestion is addressed, both metro AND country travellers will benefit. As things stand, the Coalition won't support urban rail projects, so we will be stuck with the problem for decades. 1950s road-based policy is for dinosaurs...we need a good integration of both rail and road infrastructure. Why won't those who keep blustering about Rudd & Co recognize that there is a clear difference on this key national interest?
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Not always true, I live in Gippsland and our regional trains pass through the congested Dandenong rail corridor - if the congestion is addressed, both metro AND country travellers will benefit. As things stand, the Coalition won't support urban rail projects, so we will be stuck with the problem for decades. 1950s road-based policy is for dinosaurs...we need a good integration of both rail and road infrastructure. Why won't those who keep blustering about Rudd & Co that there is a clear difference on this key national interest?
gippslander
And that is only of interest to me if I choose to travel into Melbourne. I stopped doing that years ago, and now actively avoid going to Melbourne as much as I can. If I do choose to go there, which is usually only for the odd football game, the rail service provides a quite satisfactory service.


And I don't see that many people blustering about Rudd? Most of the posters here are whining about Abbott, and really it does not make an ounce of difference because come September 7, the Australian people are going to chuck Krudd & Company out on their sorry arrse for their appalling behaviour these last few years.

The issue of rail development may be a 'key' item to you, but the vast majority of people do not see it the same way.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
...
The Libs only agreed to Gonski & Disabilitycare to avoid the negativity from Labor that they don't care for schools and the disabled.   ...
Donald
Don't the Libs care about public education and people in need of support or couldn't Abbott argue their position without that trademark smirk.

They can find money to fund some perverse socialist PPL scheme yet cry poor over everything else. So much for all that debt and how bad the country is going. We will see what gets Abb-orted in the next few months.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
2301: You still haven't made any comment about my post on the generosity of Andrew Robb towards our 'oligopoly economy'.  I therefore have to assume that you agree with what he says and that we should forget about trying to increase competition with supermarkets and banks?
Don_dunstan

While I personally don't agree with oligopolies, don't you think the genie is already out of the bottle where this is concerned?  Keating and Labor were the ones to thank for the present predicament; they were the ones who created the competition policy which has lead to what we have now.  

I am not personally abreast on what Andrew Rob has said about this, but if you hold his views with such disdain, you should be just as angry with the Labor morons because they are equally to blame for the present situation; god knows they have been in office for 6 years and have let us quite happily live under the status quo.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
I'm curious how you actually know that Labor will leave us with more debt after the next term.
Barrington womble
Elementary; one just has to look at what they have done over the past 6 years.

The Liberals are too much of an enigma when it comes to any sensible policy. I see a lot of slogans, but precious little else from them. There's simply too many gaffes from leading members in the media, and too much unknown about them to place any sort of faith in them. There are simply too many questions that need answering before they become close to being any sort of realistic alternative. It also doesn't help that their leader is a complete idiot, who has been caught lying by the media on numerous occasions. Maybe if Turnball was still leader of the Libs, things would be slightly different. At least Turnball had some brains, and a social conscience.

I'm afraid it's a case of "Better the Devil you know, than the Devil you don't" for me.
Barrington womble

Are you sure you are not meaning the Labor party here Barrington?  "Better the devil you know" well yes it certainly is a devil.....
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Elementary; one just has to look at what they have done over the past 6 years.
2301
Yes, spend heaps of money on public infrastructure where the Liberals didn't, thus creating the supposed "black hole" you keep harping on about ad nauseum.


Are you sure you are not meaning the Labor party here Barrington?  "Better the devil you know" well yes it certainly is a devil.....
2301
Nope. I meant what I wrote about whom.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
While I personally don't agree with oligopolies, don't you think the genie is already out of the bottle where this is concerned?  Keating and Labor were the ones to thank for the present predicament; they were the ones who created the competition policy which has lead to what we have now.  

I am not personally abreast on what Andrew Rob has said about this, but if you hold his views with such disdain, you should be just as angry with the Labor morons because they are equally to blame for the present situation; god knows they have been in office for 6 years and have let us quite happily live under the status quo.
2301

Ahem - there was an 11 year spell of Johnny Howard you're conveniently forgetting about somewhere in the middle there, the banks and the supermarkets certainly didn't see their power diminish in that time.  If you aren't familiar with what Andrew Robb said then I've found a very sympathetic treatment of his press conference here for you in a lovely Murdoch mouth-piece (so you can't accuse me of bias):

Andrew Robb Competition Policy

SO we have this weird paradox in your thinking where somehow eleven years of Coaltion government is blameless but the last six years of a Labor government are, or perhaps the Hawke/Keating government?  But not Johnny Howard, no certainly not him.  Why? And Andrew Robb is essentially saying here "we're not even going to pretend to try".  Why not expect more of them given we're about to elect them? Or are you saying that because it's an incoming Liberal government we shouldn't expect them to try?

If you do go to university at some stage I'd suggest you look at doing a course in Dialectic Argument (please feel free to look up what this is on Wikipedia - or your encyclopaedia) because your methods are very poor.  I've suggested this to another Railpager who also makes mistakes in arguments; essentially you are very unconvincing.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Don't the Libs care about public education and people in need of support or couldn't Abbott argue their position without that trademark smirk.

They can find money to fund some perverse socialist PPL scheme yet cry poor over everything else. So much for all that debt and how bad the country is going. We will see what gets Abb-orted in the next few months.
Groundrelay
It's not that they don't care, it's a case of can we afford it now.  
By the way I don't agree with the PPL, but that is not a reason to vote for Labor - too many reasons not to vote for them.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
...
By the way I don't agree with the PPL, but that is not a reason to vote for Labor - too many reasons not to vote for them.
Donald

There's always Bob with the Big Hat Wink
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
....don't you think the genie is already out of the bottle where this is concerned?  ...
2301


You mean like



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNg-xClEnqM

....
I am not personally abreast on what Andrew Rob has said about this, but if you hold his views with such disdain, you should be just as angry with the Labor morons because they are equally to blame for the present situation; god knows they have been in office for 6 years and have let us quite happily live under the status quo.
2301


That's because two wrongs make 2301 vote 'right' Exclamation
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
SO we have this weird paradox in your thinking where somehow eleven years of Coaltion government is blameless but the last six years of a Labor government are, or perhaps the Hawke/Keating government?  But not Johnny Howard, no certainly not him.  Why? And Andrew Robb is essentially saying here "we're not even going to pretend to try".  Why not expect more of them given we're about to elect them? Or are you saying that because it's an incoming Liberal government we shouldn't expect them to try?
Don_dunstan

Oh c'mon Don, play the ball, not the man.  I am not saying that the Liberals are saints where this is concerned - far from it.  What I am saying is that if you truly believe that Labor are the all mighty and great, than why haven't they fixed this problem?  Yes, I agree whole heartedly that oligopolies are bad for everyone and both parties have let us all down, but as Donald has said, there are too many reasons to not vote Labor this time.

You really do come across as being blinkered where your beloved Labor party are concerned.  Maybe this has something to do with your namesake.


  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Oh c'mon Don, play the ball, not the man.  I am not saying that the Liberals are saints where this is concerned - far from it.
2301

Re-read what you wrote.  That's pretty much exactly what you are saying.

Again - if you omit Johnny Howard as a cause of this situation then at least please give an explanation as to why he's exempt from your criticism - and also why Andrew Robb can't be expected to fix this situation.  We're talking about four different parties who are responsible for this situation; being Hawke/Keating, Howard, Rudd/Gillard and the incoming Abbott government.  You are sheeting blame home to only two.  Your bias here is blatantly obvious; it's your blinkered behaviour, not mine.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Oh c'mon Don, play the ball, not the man.  
2301
Interesting you'd say that, and then you say the following a paragraph later...

You really do come across as being blinkered where your beloved Labor party are concerned.  Maybe this has something to do with your namesake.
2301
Practice what you preach.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
If you do go to university at some stage I'd suggest you look at doing a course in Dialectic Argument (please feel free to look up what this is on Wikipedia - or your encyclopaedia) because your methods are very poor.  I've suggested this to another Railpager who also makes mistakes in arguments; essentially you are very unconvincing.
Don_dunstan

Tisk, tisk. Here we go again..........rude and arrogant Don at his best making assertions on my educational background when he has no idea - maybe you should reconsider sitting this course again Don to brush up on your skills.  

I really do think Valvegear's Prose is much more sophisticated when it comes to the intellectual superiority stakes.  He is very eloquent indeed!
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
Re-read what you wrote.  That's pretty much exactly what you are saying.

Again - if you omit Johnny Howard as a cause of this situation then at least please give an explanation as to why he's exempt from your criticism - and also why Andrew Robb can't be expected to fix this situation.  We're talking about four different parties who are responsible for this situation; being Hawke/Keating, Howard, Rudd/Gillard and the incoming Abbott government.  You are sheeting blame home to only two.  Your bias here is blatantly obvious; it's your blinkered behaviour, not mine.
don_dunstan

I never exempted Johnny from my argument - I blame him just as much.  But you can't blame one and NOT the other!

I sure would rather Rob than Wong as a Finance Minister, given her track record!  What about her $33 billion black hole in 3 months...........sheeez.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
You really do come across as being blinkered where your beloved Labor party are concerned.
2301


And you're not? . . . the man who writes emotive phrases like "spiralling out of control" and so on.  The man who, as has been pointed out, conveniently omits the Howard legacy at every turn.  The man of trite phrases and no substance.
The man who accuses the Labor Party of selling itself ( in slightly cruder terms ) to the Independents and Greens, whilst conveniently overlooking the fact that Libs have been doing exactly the same with the Country Party/National Party since Abbott was in nappies.

Pot. Kettle. Black.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I never exempted Johnny from my argument - I blame him just as much.  But you can't blame one and NOT the other!

I sure would rather Rob than Wong as a Finance Minister, given her track record!  What about her $33 billion black hole in 3 months...........sheeez.
2301

I'm beginning to see why Barrington finds you so frustrating - you're all over the shop like a mad woman's custard.  If you read your argument carefully you seem to be doing exactly what you say you're not doing IE blaming the Labor Party while absolving the Liberals.  You are going around and around in circles and blaming other people for being one-sided when they point out your bias and you need to get out of that cycle because honestly, it makes for very boring, predictable reading.  You alluded to a proper argument in your last post but still didn't follow though.  Now I'm going to give you an example of how you should respond to my comments on Andrew Robb properly without digressing into (yet another) attack on the Labor Party and parroting on about how incompetent they are.  Here goes:

"Don, you are right that Andrew Robb's comments are fairly disturbing to an outside observer but you have to remember that he is not just any ordinary citizen or run-of-the-mill politician.  Andrew Robb has done what most other politicians - Labor and Liberal - haven't, that is, he has had a highly successful career as a businessman and in fact has worked for many of our largest free-enterprise organisations such as the Packer Family companies and was on the board of Sinclair Knight Merz, one of Australia's largest engineering companies. In addition to these extraordinary talents he is a former director of the Liberal Party and knows the political machine better than almost anyone in parliament.

If Andrew Robb says that there is fundamentally nothing wrong with the status quo then I have the utmost confidence in his capacity to make that call as someone with that degree of talent and obvious intelligence.  And perhaps he has a point, perhaps there's no point in disturbing our local cartels.  After all we have the most stable and most successful banks in the world - they escaped the GFC in better shape than banks anywhere in the world, and maybe we should be grateful for that."

Do you understand where I'm coming from now?  
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
... What about her $33 billion black hole in 3 months...........sheeez.
2301
No big deal. Selling off the top 4 billionaires will cover it. Idea

You'll still have 32 left before you need to move on to the mega millionaires Exclamation
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

I don't see why the liberals have got that has been howard to campaign for them, especially when he as "instructed by" (oh sooorrry I mean "followed") Bush jnr into the invasion of Iraq for oil.

But interesting that the right winged media harp on how the left wing parties such as Labor get their has beens such as Keating, etc.

So it seems that it's okay for one party to get their has beens to campaign for them, but not okay for other parties.

Unfortunately, it looks like Abbot & the Liberals MAY have a majority in the parliament, if that happens (like if or when Labor has a majority), it will be more dictator-like. But we all know Liberals
are more dictator-like anyway (Although their are suggestions it may be closer than we think)

Interesting to note what Insiders were attempting to ask Tony Abbott about what he WILL cut.
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
Don, you are right that Andrew Robb's comments are fairly disturbing to an outside observer but you have to remember that he is not just any ordinary citizen or run-of-the-mill politician.  Andrew Robb has done what most other politicians - Labor and Liberal - haven't, that is, he has had a highly successful career as a businessman and in fact has worked for many of our largest free-enterprise organisations such as the Packer Family companies and was on the board of Sinclair Knight Merz, one of Australia's largest engineering companies. In addition to these extraordinary talents he is a former director of the Liberal Party and knows the political machine better than almost anyone in parliament.

If Andrew Robb says that there is fundamentally nothing wrong with the status quo then I have the utmost confidence in his capacity to make that call as someone with that degree of talent and obvious intelligence.  And perhaps he has a point, perhaps there's no point in disturbing our local cartels.  After all we have the most stable and most successful banks in the world - they escaped the GFC in better shape than banks anywhere in the world, and maybe we should be grateful for that."
Don_dunstan

Written and authorised by Don_dunstan, Railpage Australia for the ALP party, SA.........
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
Don, getting back to your argument about oligopolies and how you believe Andrew Robb will help encourage them; oligopolies are a part of every economy rightly or wrongly.  We live in a free market economy and I guess you could say that corporations like Woolies and Coles are only investing their capital effectively and offering their customers what they want and need - that does not mean to say that I believe these companies do not have enough power already, but how do you stop companies from growing their business in a free market like Australia?

I personally don't think all of the Liberals policies are up to scratch and your concerns about Robb's comments might be well founded, but at the end of the day, anyone has to be better than Wong and ilk, and as Donald said there are too many reasons to not vote Labor.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

Okay since most sides of this election, but especially BOTH Labor & Liberal are being negative, I don't see why Labor are not using nuclear power station debate to ask when is Abbott going to release his policy on nuclear power, and how many nuclear power stations to you plan to build in Australia?

Edit: According to one of the Liberals "policies", they will be more better transparency. Reference see "Back Flip Barry's" NSW government!

PS: In this post here I did not mean to offend - the monkey population that is!
  2301 Train Controller

Location: Banned
No big deal. Selling off the top 4 billionaires will cover it. Idea

You'll still have 32 left before you need to move on to the mega millionaires Exclamation
cootanee

This does not negate the fact that Wong is incompetent.  If you had a business would you employ Wong and all the other Labor fools to run it?  Couldn't you just imagine if a private business was ran the same way as these people are running the country at present - you would have ASIC and the fraud squad launching investigations all over the place and shareholders would be vying for blood like the Australian public currently are.

One only has to look at the corruption of the Labor party in New South Wales for another reason to not vote Labor!  It is just absolutely unbelievable what has come out of the ICAC corruption case and to think that all the other Labor party power brokers and parliamentarians  had no idea of what was happening right under their noses.......funny that.

My prediction is that this election will be the biggest blood bath the Labor party has ever seen - bigger than the Queensland and New South Wales wipe out.  I reckon they will be left with fewer than 5 seats in the lower house.

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