[edit]  split discussion atthis point, head off tot he "other Transport to talk holden, and after  sales support etc. which is now on topic for that thread.


Holden, support for discontinued models
http://www.railpage.com.au/f-p1882331.htm#1882331


[/edit]


This thread remains R class !!!!

Now here's a novel approach, don't jump in and pay your money for a model that hasn't been delivered yet, wait till the model comes out on the shelves and try it out, then if you don't like it, you don't buy it.
Seems to me there is a lot of win win with this idea:-

• Manufacturers will have to get their product out as fast as they can so they can get their money back, rather than have already made their money and not have a need to hurry the process.
• Manufacturers will have to turn out a quality model or people won't buy them.
• Modellers will keep their money in their bank earning interest for them and not 'hidden' revenue to the manufacturer.
• Modellers may get their models quicker or at least not have the agony (and domestic squabbles in some cases-spoken from experience) of having paid big dollars and have to wait for eternity for a promised model.

Now I know manufacturers will come out with a lot of reasons to pooba my thoughts, I know fellow Railpagers will come out and lampoon my ideas, but I suspect a lot of railpagers have an "in" with manufacturer mates so will only be sticking up for their mates (FYI, sticking up for mates is ok, as along as mates aren't sticking it up you!).

Some manufacturers have produced quality models and virtually snuck them onto an unsuspected market, OER are one that comes to mind, so it can be done. Perhaps manufacturers have to be smarter and be able to bank roll a project themselves and not rely on prepaid orders which leads back to dot point 1.
And yes, I wait for the nay sayers who reckon we won't get any models if my approach was taken, frankly, I don't believe that will be the case, do manufacturers make models to make money (they will say they don't make money) or is there a desire on their part to have a model available as well. The market may change but models will still appear.

Wayne

Now here's a novel approach, don't jump in and pay your money for a model that hasn't been delivered yet, wait till the model comes out on the shelves and try it out, then if you don't like it, you don't buy it.
Seems to me there is a lot of win win with this idea:-

• Manufacturers will have to get their product out as fast as they can so they can get their money back, rather than have already made their money and not have a need to hurry the process.
• Manufacturers will have to turn out a quality model or people won't buy them.
• Modellers will keep their money in their bank earning interest for them and not 'hidden' revenue to the manufacturer.
• Modellers may get their models quicker or at least not have the agony (and domestic squabbles in some cases-spoken from experience) of having paid big dollars and have to wait for eternity for a promised model.

Now I know manufacturers will come out with a lot of reasons to pooba my thoughts, I know fellow Railpagers will come out and lampoon my ideas, but I suspect a lot of railpagers have an "in" with manufacturer mates so will only be sticking up for their mates (FYI, sticking up for mates is ok, as along as mates aren't sticking it up you!).

Some manufacturers have produced quality models and virtually snuck them onto an unsuspected market, OER are one that comes to mind, so it can be done. Perhaps manufacturers have to be smarter and be able to bank roll a project themselves and not rely on prepaid orders which leads back to dot point 1.
And yes, I wait for the nay sayers who reckon we won't get any models if my approach was taken, frankly, I don't believe that will be the case, do manufacturers make models to make money (they will say they don't make money) or is there a desire on their part to have a model available as well. The market may change but models will still appear.

Wayne

Actually, one of them has stopped accepting advance payments, & another of them has revised their selling & payment options to some extent.

I do not mind the principle of the EB payment method, & it only fails when the model is so long in coming from first announcements of them, often with very short cut off times for the best price option.

The primary failure though is when the models are so long in coming, & when finally do arrive there are many issues with them, as found here.

I for one will no longer take part in these schemes, until such times there is more reliability in their supply, that includes final build quality, as well as the overly long period between the initial EB time finishes & when the model actually arrives.  I know that I am not the only one who has taken this option up.

For me, the ideal would be if the orders & a price discount was offered for deposits for a model was asked for once they went into actual production, with final payment to be made prior to their arrival on shore in Australia, with the announcement/notice of final payment is required when they are on ship at the Chines port.   Wont happen though.

I'm still a sucker it seems.  I parted with $490 to buy two 45 Class diseasels from Auscision.  That saves at least $90 as compared to waiting until after they get here.  The decision was a considered one based to a fair extent on the relative reliability of delivery by the company making the offer. and also the magnitude of the "saving".  Of course it is not a saving - to make a saving I would not buy any models, but buying models beats the hell out of other extravagant pastimes such as boozing, smoking and whoring.

What you say makes sense Wayne, but I am still prone to weakening to temptation when an apparently attractive deal comes up.

In the end it is up to the modellers.  If none take up the early bird offers the suppliers would drop the scheme.

I'm now very selective as to which importers will get my money early and which ones will have to wait until they have the product ready for delivery before they get my order and as we have seen with the R class delivery from Eureka paying in full years ago didn't even guarantee priority in delivery over someone who ordered or made their final payment just recently.

Now here's a novel approach, don't jump in and pay your money for a model that hasn't been delivered yet, wait till the model comes out on the shelves and try it out, then if you don't like it, you don't buy it.
Seems to me there is a lot of win win with this idea:-

• Manufacturers will have to get their product out as fast as they can so they can get their money back, rather than have already made their money and not have a need to hurry the process.
• Manufacturers will have to turn out a quality model or people won't buy them.
• Modellers will keep their money in their bank earning interest for them and not 'hidden' revenue to the manufacturer.
• Modellers may get their models quicker or at least not have the agony (and domestic squabbles in some cases-spoken from experience) of having paid big dollars and have to wait for eternity for a promised model.

Now I know manufacturers will come out with a lot of reasons to pooba my thoughts, I know fellow Railpagers will come out and lampoon my ideas, but I suspect a lot of railpagers have an "in" with manufacturer mates so will only be sticking up for their mates (FYI, sticking up for mates is ok, as along as mates aren't sticking it up you!).

Some manufacturers have produced quality models and virtually snuck them onto an unsuspected market, OER are one that comes to mind, so it can be done. Perhaps manufacturers have to be smarter and be able to bank roll a project themselves and not rely on prepaid orders which leads back to dot point 1.
And yes, I wait for the nay sayers who reckon we won't get any models if my approach was taken, frankly, I don't believe that will be the case, do manufacturers make models to make money (they will say they don't make money) or is there a desire on their part to have a model available as well. The market may change but models will still appear.

Wayne

Wayne
Your last bit
"And yes, I wait for the nay sayers who reckon we won't get any models if my approach was taken, frankly, I don't believe that will be the case, do manufacturers make models to make money (they will say they don't make money) or is there a desire on their part to have a model available as well. The market may change but models will still appear."
They say they don't make money??
Ha Ha Tom who brought out the NR changed his initial order from the minimum to more than 4000, cannot remember what the final figure was. (Info TIK)
I think they were sold by Austrains for $195 and according to several modellers reports here in the past, they landed in Australia owing Tom less than $20 a piece (Bill was that $9?  can you remember) But even at $20 Direct sales plus shipping is certainly a loss I would like to make
Cheers
Rod

Yes, one can wait untill product arrive. /but I you really want a specific colour/variation, preordering is the only way to ensure you get one.

...ask anyone who wanted a Auscision 422/ vline N set / AN3 ghan in recent times.  

But myself have waited for some producrt to arrive, not caring what version I got. So it can depend on how much you want that version of that model. Having to wait 7+ years still got me my two  R classes - and I amsure Eureka is equally glad to get them out the door as we are in getting them.

Regards,
David Head

Wayne
Your last bit
"And yes, I wait for the nay sayers who reckon we won't get any models if my approach was taken, frankly, I don't believe that will be the case, do manufacturers make models to make money (they will say they don't make money) or is there a desire on their part to have a model available as well. The market may change but models will still appear."
They say they don't make money??
Ha Ha Tom who brought out the NR changed his initial order from the minimum to more than 4000, cannot remember what the final figure was. (Info TIK)
I think they were sold by Austrains for $195 and according to several modellers reports here in the past, they landed in Australia owing Tom less than $20 a piece (Bill was that $9?  can you remember) But even at $20 Direct sales plus shipping is certainly a loss I would like to make
Cheers
Rod

Rod,

From memory (which ain't as good as it once was!!!!), I can still recall Tom coming into my office in about 1996/8 period with this bloody mechanism for the first diesel that he was going to "do" in China. I was a die-hard steam bloke and had NO interest in diesels at that stage of my life, but I'm almost sure he said he would land these models for $11- a piece. Now (and it's a BIG "now"), I can't remember whether that figure would have included the tooling costs or just the production cost. I can't recall what loco class it was; either the 80 or the 442 from memory.

I do remember that is was a good looking mechanism and being 12 wheel pick-up and 12 wheel drive I was envious when compared to my (then) collection of brass steam locos which, in most cases, only had 3 wheels (drivers) collecting power on one side and 4 (tender) on the other.

Roachie

Yes, one can wait untill product arrive. /but I you really want a specific colour/variation, preordering is the only way to ensure you get one.

I don't think that that has been an issue with Eureka products selling out prior to arrival but is one of the reasons why I said that I am now selective in what I preorder.

As I am not into more modern modelling, especially in regard to diesels, the aspect of the colour schemes is no real worry for me, while I have a 40cl fully paid for with Eureka, as long as I get the modified green version I will be happy, in fact I do not really care about the number either, in fact if it came with no numbers it would suit me just fine.

What is interesting though for the diesel modeller is that for some reason un numbered versions are not all that popular, & I think that with VR diesels some had number plates, like some steam making it a bit difficult for the end buyer to source the specific number they wanted.  For NSW modellers that is not as much an issue for steam as its easy enough to get the brass cabside numbers as well as white buffer beam numbers, getting the right buff colour for tenders is another matter however.

For each individual decisions are made one way or another, but I would certainly be looking for more reliability in the guestimate arrival times & knowing the models meet UP to a standard though.  In the end if the model arrives with standard down & a lot of work needed on it, the $50.00 or so saved may not be all that great in the overall scale of things, at least how they are now.

Wonder if the Eureka 40 class will have six axle drive.  Will a cry go up that it is not according to the prototype?

Nah just joking.  Bring it on.  Got the R Class rock burner (and oil burner) out of the way, now let's get the 40 class out here.

Maybe I will get a 40 class for next Christmas.

Best regards,
John

Wonder if the Eureka 40 class will have six axle drive.  Will a cry go up that it is not according to the prototype?

Nah just joking.  Bring it on.  Got the R Class rock burner (and oil burner) out of the way, now let's get the 40 class out here.

Maybe I will get a 40 class for next Christmas.

Best regards,
John

John,

I think the 40 class being 12 wheel drive (which I assume it will be), will the diesel equivalent of the R class being made to 16.5mm gauge......not exactly to prototype, but more useful to modelers.

Roachie

Now here's a novel approach, don't jump in and pay your money for a model that hasn't been delivered yet, wait till the model comes out on the shelves and try it out, then if you don't like it, you don't buy it.
Seems to me there is a lot of win win with this idea:-

• Manufacturers will have to get their product out as fast as they can so they can get their money back, rather than have already made their money and not have a need to hurry the process.
• Manufacturers will have to turn out a quality model or people won't buy them.
• Modellers will keep their money in their bank earning interest for them and not 'hidden' revenue to the manufacturer.
• Modellers may get their models quicker or at least not have the agony (and domestic squabbles in some cases-spoken from experience) of having paid big dollars and have to wait for eternity for a promised model.

Now I know manufacturers will come out with a lot of reasons to pooba my thoughts, I know fellow Railpagers will come out and lampoon my ideas, but I suspect a lot of railpagers have an "in" with manufacturer mates so will only be sticking up for their mates (FYI, sticking up for mates is ok, as along as mates aren't sticking it up you!).

Some manufacturers have produced quality models and virtually snuck them onto an unsuspected market, OER are one that comes to mind, so it can be done. Perhaps manufacturers have to be smarter and be able to bank roll a project themselves and not rely on prepaid orders which leads back to dot point 1.
And yes, I wait for the nay sayers who reckon we won't get any models if my approach was taken, frankly, I don't believe that will be the case, do manufacturers make models to make money (they will say they don't make money) or is there a desire on their part to have a model available as well. The market may change but models will still appear.

Wayne

I am not going to poohbah this as I agree with it actually. It is alright to pre order if you wish but some of us now that have been, how does one say it burned by certain importers probably will not take the risk though. Also if you wait some one will always want to get rid of a model in the future so you might be lucky enough to get one second hand in good condition. Try hobby shops and train shops that deal in secondhand stuff for realistic prices of stuff, E Bay is just a rip off merchants dream. And a lot do just that on E Bay rip you off. There are a few honest ones though, but they are very much the minority on there.

As I am not into more modern modelling, especially in regard to diesels, the aspect of the colour schemes is no real worry for me, while I have a 40cl fully paid for with Eureka, as long as I get the modified green version I will be happy, in fact I do not really care about the number either, in fact if it came with no numbers it would suit me just fine.

What is interesting though for the diesel modeller is that for some reason un numbered versions are not all that popular, & I think that with VR diesels some had number plates, like some steam making it a bit difficult for the end buyer to source the specific number they wanted.  For NSW modellers that is not as much an issue for steam as its easy enough to get the brass cabside numbers as well as white buffer beam numbers, getting the right buff colour for tenders is another matter however.

For each individual decisions are made one way or another, but I would certainly be looking for more reliability in the guestimate arrival times & knowing the models meet UP to a standard though.  In the end if the model arrives with standard down & a lot of work needed on it, the $50.00 or so saved may not be all that great in the overall scale of things, at least how they are now.

And of course the next development (which I have thought would have come a few years back) Was to have fully paid for your models, and then had to wait a few years and finally another party secretly drops a better version of the model on the market.(Austrains had not taken deposits on the T Class as far as I am concerned (mine weren't anyway)) Then what do you do?  Demanding your money back, getting it, only to find the second model is quickly sold out before you can transfer the funds. I am thinking if this had happened with the R, refunds would be very slow coming if ever. The demand for refunds might actually break Eureka?
Fortunately this did not happen, our long wait for our models, was completed reasonably happilly for most of us, and Bushy should still get his 40's for Christmas  but which Christmas?
Cheers
Rod

... Bushy should still get his 40's for Christmas  but which Christmas?
Cheers
Rod

Not even six years I have been waiting, Rod.  My order numbers are A40-260108-1 and A40-260108-2.  That means 26 January 2008 entered on the order books.  Still a month short of six years.  Christmas 2014 will be nigh on seven years.  But that looks like about par for the course.

I'm not putting down Eureka because of the 7+ year wait. What really bothers me about this is that I along with many others here paid for this model very early in the saga.  My order goes back to 2006. And still I'm waiting, yet the model is available at hobby shops!
It's clear there is no loyality to the customers that funded the project right from the start, which without their capital the project could not have moved forward in the first place.
I will never make this mistake again, with Eureka or anyone else.

I'm not putting down Eureka because of the 7+ year wait. What really bothers me about this is that I along with many others here paid for this model very early in the saga.  My order goes back to 2006. And still I'm waiting, yet the model is available at hobby shops!
It's clear there is no loyality to the customers that funded the project right from the start, which without their capital the project could not have moved forward in the first place.
I will never make this mistake again, with Eureka or anyone else.

Have you contacted Eureka to confirm your delivery address recently? If not, he is probably waiting to know before shipping your model.

Have you contacted Eureka to confirm your delivery address recently? If not, he is probably waiting to know before shipping your model.

Why didn't Ron contact everyone with an order prior to their arrival just like the other importers do.

A few words from the Eureka blogspot dated 17 Dec 13:

"A first pass through the R class order database has now been completed and over 70% of orders have now been delivered. The remaining 30% will progressively be contacted but as previously advised a quick email or telephone call to the Eureka office will result in an expeditious dispatch of an outstanding order."

The invitation is there.

Best regards,
John

Ron contacted me in November to confirm my delivery address.
As I said,  I'm no longer prepared to part with my hard earned knowing that it provides nothing in the way of any sort of priority.  

Poor form.

Ron contacted me in November to confirm my delivery address.
As I said,  I'm no longer prepared to part with my hard earned knowing that it provides nothing in the way of any sort of priority.  

Poor form.

Then I'd contact him to confirm that it's been sent. I'd hardly call the postal system trustworthy these days... there is always the possibility yours has gotten lost in the mail, especially given the time of year.

Then I'd contact him to confirm that it's been sent. I'd hardly call the postal system trustworthy these days... there is always the possibility yours has gotten lost in the mail, especially given the time of year.

Yes that would be the sensible thing to do actually Ron is not a mind reader and would assume that if he has sent it out and not heard anything else then it was delivered. Better to contact him though just in case of, a parcel can easily go astray in the system at this time of year.

Yes that would be the sensible thing to do actually Ron is not a mind reader and would assume that if he has sent it out and not heard anything else then it was delivered. Better to contact him though just in case of, a parcel can easily go astray in the system at this time of year.

Didn't we just go through this with another poster that was adamant he had done enough contacting, after following posted advice here, he had his R class in no time at all, being stubborn will not overcome many reasons for something not occurring.

Then I'd contact him to confirm that it's been sent. I'd hardly call the postal system trustworthy these days... there is always the possibility yours has gotten lost in the mail, especially given the time of year.

Actually, the postal system in Australia is very reliable. I have only lost one parcel in something over 4,000 shippings within Australia, and I suspect the person it was addressed to was lying about it.

Actually, the postal system in Australia is very reliable. I have only lost one parcel in something over 4,000 shippings within Australia, and I suspect the person it was addressed to was lying about it.

I'm glad to hear that you've had a much better run than I have with it. Each year at least something I've sent or ordered seems to go missing and more than one parcel always gets damaged due to carelessness or brutality.

I was a little concerned, actually, that my R would arrive damaged. Fortunately this was not the case, but it's something that crosses my mind with each model railway order I place.