Port of Geelong - Underutilised?

 
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
There was a time when a series of undesirable users turned a lot of us away. Thankfully those days appear to be gone.

Everyone does and should have an opinion and those opinions should be discussed with the correct or appropriate boundaries.

This now appears to be in place.

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  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Wow thanks!

I left this forum for quite a while because of all the aggressive abuse. But I decided to experiment with a return when I learned the nastiest person had been banned and it appears that a couple of others who used to attack me have toned down and aren't as vicious as they used to be. Smile

Anyway, here are some up to date channel depth stats. Compare Hastings at 15.8 metres with Geelong at a mere 11.7. My argument is that Corio Bay and the Port of Geelong is too shallow for the channel depth to be increased to take big ships. As the size of ships steadily increases, this will become an increasing handicap for Geelong.

[b]Port of Melbourne. [i]14 metres[/i][/b] maximum in 2009

[b]Port of Hastings. [/b][i][b]15.8 metres [/b][/i]maximum
http://www.patrick.com.au/www/699/1001127/displayarticle/1001477.html

Berth / Depth
Stony Point Jetty. 2.5 m to 6.5 m
Long Island Point Jetty 15.8 m
Crib Point Jetty No. 1 15.8 m
Bluescope No.1 (Dedicated RORO berth) 12.01 m
Bluescope No. 2 12.1 m

[b]Port of Geelong. [i]11.7 metres [/i][/b]maximum
http://www.geelongport.com.au/generalinfo_pl.html

[table][tr][td]BERTH[/td]
[td][center]Depth of Water[/center]
[/td]
[td][center]Draught Limit (with tide)[/center]
[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]Pt. Henry Pier[/td]
[td][center]12.0m[/center]
[/td]
[td][center]11.4m[/center]
[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]Bulk Grain Pier No. 1[/td]
[td][center]10.5m[/center]
[/td]
[td][center]9.9m[/center]
[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]Bulk Grain Pier No. 2[/td]
[td][center]12.3m[/center]
[/td]
[td][center]11.7m[/center]
[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]Bulk Grain Pier No. 3[/td]
[td][center]12.3m[/center]
[/td]
[td][center]11.7m[/center]
[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]Corio Quay North Nos. 1, 2, 3 & 4[/td]
[td][center]11.0m[/center]
[/td]
[td][center]10.5m[/center]
[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]Corio Quay South Nos. 1[/td]
[td][center]11.0m[/center]
[/td]
[td][center]10.5m[/center]
[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]Lascelles Wharf Nos. 1, 2, & 3[/td]
[td][center]12.3m[/center]
[/td]
[td][center]11.7m[/center]
[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]Refinery Pier Nos. 1, 2, 3, & 4[/td]
[td][center]12.3m[/center]
[/td]
[td][center]11.7m[/center]
[/td]
[/tr]
[tr][td]Pt. Wilson Explosives Pier[/td]
[td][center]9.1m[/center]
[/td]
[td][center]8.5m[/center]
[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
[b]Port of Portland. [i]12.5 metres [/i][/b]maximum
- Beths vary between 12.5 and 10.6 metres.
http://www.portofportland.com.au/port-facilities/wharf-facilities-a-capacity.html
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
One thing that Is miss understood about Port of Hastings Is yes It has a deep channel and tanker berths, but It's not a natural deep water port (as many claim)
To enlarge the port of Hasting would require a massive about of bay dredging for widened channels, anchorage area, wharf side berths, swinging basins and the list goes on.

The reality Is Victoria has no natural deep water ports that are of the depth of tomorrows shipping requirements, so dredging would be needed at all ports In the future, for future requirements.
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
Portland ?

Edward
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Portland ?

Edward
ozfreight

Port of Portland at 12.5 metres may of been deep In the past, but times have changed, with Port of Melbourne now at 14 metres.
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
Agree and not much room to expand either as the port is surrounded by the town. So it looks like Hastings or, as most companies that have invested heavily in our western suburbs suggest ,a brand new site somewhere in the western side of Port Phillip Bay(that would need dredging )
Hastings is regarded by many major players in the freight industry as being on the wrong side of the main interstate trading corridor. A heck of expensive work would have to be done  to allow containers from Hastings to be railed to wherever the unfunded proposed interstate rail terminal is to be built...if rail is considered at all that is...!

Edward
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
There are various posts on Railpage suggesting Hastings will be road only and use the east west road tunnel. Only time will tell what is in store.

The question in my mind is how much of the destined import and export traffic to Hastings will be to and from the eastern suburbs?

If this is minor then rail will be required to and from Hastings. Road is not the answer.
  Trainplanner Chief Commissioner

Location: Along the Line
I seem to recall Port of Geelong proposing by infrastructure standards a relatively modest channel deepening program that would significantly increase the ability for larger vessels to access certain berths at Geelong.
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
One 0ption is to rail freight (containers only ) to the Lyndhurst freight terminal ,now under construction, then road to Hastings. Hastings would initially only handle Lift on /Lift off operations with Lyndhurst handling container packing/un packing/storage and ancilliary services. Bunnings commited to a near 50.000sq/m distribution warehouse at Lyndhurst in September 2013 .QUBE intends to run a shuttle between Lyndhurst and Victoria Dock and we all know how much stuff Bunnings gets from China so it should be a well patronised service. QUBE committed themselves to purchase or lease warehouses at both Lyndhurst and Altona when they purchased Westgate  business.
Lyndhust seems going ok but the Altona terminal is a bit under a cloud as QUBE requires both gauges to be provided at Altona to allow rail to Lyndhurst.They are not holding their breath on the Lyndhurst being serviced by standard gauge anytime soon ,nor is the rest of the industry who regard Hastings as a dog...

Edward
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
Fair enough ozfreight, if you reckon Lyndhurst / Hastings won't sell to industry generally (unless it has standard gauge train tracks), then where do you suggest we build the necessary deep water wharves?

The topography of Port Phillip slopes gently from the west of the east. Thus the coast off Werribee is very shallow, while it's much deeper in the east. That's why most ships head east in the deep water channel from Portsea towards Rye before turning north, while nothing that draws more than a couple of metres travels down the western side of the bay past Werribee or Little River.

So while it major freight companies might like to have a port off say, Manor or Little River, sadly it's not possible in the real world. Why? Firstly it would cost utterly vast amounts to dredge and maintain a 15 metre deep channel in water that's only 5 or 6 metres deep. Secondly there are the inevitable environmental protests over such a huge disturbance, they would be long and loud and most importantly they would be very expensive due to extra security, extra law suits and the huge delays that all these things would cause. Even without the vast expense of dredging, greenies alone could cause huge cost blow outs. While there aren't that many of them outside the inner northern suburbs, they are wealthy and well organised, so never underestimate their power to disrupt and delay.

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0007/45367/Cadastral-Survey-2.jpg Click on the image in that link for a large scale version
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
Agree mostly with you.First say that any port facility built on the western part of Port Phillip Bay would be beneficial to the existing operators but cost a bomb. Hastings will cost a mega bomb once the greens get stuck into the government about existing environmental issues such as mangroves and other bits of conservation issues.But then again, will there be any greens  around after next election ?
Is there another site in Victoria that could accommodate a deep sea port? And why do we always have to argue as to wether it is a liberal/national/labor/greeny policy ?What about commense ?
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
Whoops!
Trouble with Edits on this computer...Cooper my cat is to blame.
comonsence I ment
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
I think the only sheltered ports are Portland, Port Phillip, Western Port and the area between Foster and Port Albert (which silted up in the 1850's). There just aren't many sheltered places on the Victorian coast

I wasn't thinking of "big G" Greens (as in the political party), but more "small g" greenies. The people who live in trendy suburbs that have been nicknamed CULL'S (Cashed-Up Latte-Lefties). They have the best of intentions, but little knowledge of things like industry or job creation and generally they don't mix with ordinary people. There are plenty of bureaucrats, academics and lawyers in their ranks. Thus they have clout that is much greater than their modest numbers would suggest.

I reckon that demographic is the reason why very little will be done in this state, regardless of whether Labour or Liberal is in government. They effectively have the power to veto or hugely delay most things, so I doubt any new port will be built. Sad
  mattx31 Station Staff

Location: GEELONG
Getting back to the port been under-utilised, what will happen to the Ford factory at North Geelong when they exit Australia in 2016?
It would be good to see maybe a UGL or EDI take up residence at the factory making rolling stock & Loco's. Most components could be delivered by ship straight to Corio quay then delivered straight to the factory across the road & assembled.
Now that would be efficient!!
Geelong needs jobs for the future.
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
In todays Herald -sun there is a proposal by the liberal government to push for an army vehicule factory to be located in Geelong . That would be a good fit,using existing qualified employees and soon to be redundand facilities.I would not hold my breath about an Australian rail manufacturer moving into ex-Ford factories...they seem to be keen to move overseas as they have trouble to find work for their existing facilities all over the place in Australia.

Edward
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
That's interesting Ozfreight. Thales is making Bushmasters in Bendigo at the moment.

Is there something wrong with their current factory that would cause them to move?
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
Mattx31
If Geelong is to survive as a manufacturing hub ,and I believe they can, they must embrace new technologies and ways to implement them.
Assembling things from imported bits and pieces from overseas or all over other plants in Australia is a thing of the past.
Corio Quay is basically a small , derelict wharf which would struggle to handle a trawler of sardines. If your components are coming in containers then they would have to come from Melbourne .Cost.
Even if Corio Quay was able to handle your imported components you would find that handling your precious cargo on the short road distance would cost you as much as as the total overseas freight charges
The whole of Port of Geelong and certainly the railyards look  in need of urgent investments.

edward
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
Bogong
Nothing to do with the Thales/bushmaster thing in Bendigo. New contract worth heaps with Land Rover for military vehicles. Hope Geelong gets it.

Edward
  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
Bogong
Nothing to do with the Thales/bushmaster thing in Bendigo. New contract worth heaps with Land Rover for military vehicles. Hope Geelong gets it.

Edward
ozfreight

Don't be so sure that Land Rover will be involved either.

http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/lsd/land400/
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
See what you mean QSB6.7..thanks for info! the expected delivery date of 2025 is a bit of a blow...

Edward
  waynes Junior Train Controller

Location: Victoria
Will the building of Land Rover require access to rail?
  ozfreight Chief Train Controller

Location: hawthorn 3122
No , Waynes.The linky provided byQSB6.7 above will show you that the project is named LAND 400 and is not associated with Land Rover(my mistake) and is a long ,long way away...2025 they say. By then the ex -Ford factories will be long gone or converted to other commercial activities. It is prime real estate

edward
  QSB6.7 Chief Train Controller

Location: Going off the rails on a crazy train.
Not wanting to dig up an old thread or start a new thread.

I noticed this announced the other day.

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/business/grain-and-hay/new-bulk-grain-export-terminal-to-be-built-in-geelong/story-fnker6ee-1227030362882

I wonder if rail will get a look in or will it all be more trucks?
  JimYarin Chief Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, South Australia
the article says they are expecting 450,000 tonnes of grain per annum. a lot of trucks. the woodchip sidings are connected on dual gauge i think.
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
the article says they are expecting 450,000 tonnes of grain per annum. a lot of trucks. the woodchip sidings are connected on dual gauge i think.
JimYarin

It will be a dedicated road serviced facility, with comparatively small volumes compared to Graincorp. With the deregulation of the wheat industry some years back, farmers can now sell to anyone they like year round, and many now have large on farm storages. They then sell to a grain buyer who trucks it to the destination. The old days of the AWB buying the whole harvest and handling the lot are well behind us.

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